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  • yelcpo's Avatar
    Pending Verification
    • Jul 2011
    • 7

    the hunt against airsoft/paintball armour builds

    #1
    Hello everyone, I have been reading a lot of threads on armour builds, materials and the frustrations of airsoft enthusiast in the 405th environment. From what I understand there is practically a communist hunt going on to kill most threads related with making armour resistant against impact of any type. First off, shame on you. There are a few things we have to acknowledge.

    First off, correct me if I’m wrong, 405th was created bring people together in a community where fans can create costumes of all sorts for conventions or hallway decorations (sorry but walking down a hallway with 10 suits of armour is really badass). It has become a wealth of information with much success and failure.

    Secondly, Airsoft and other similar sports are growing. There is nothing the 405th can do about that. The people who play these sports also play video games. These people like Milsims and LARP. What happens next is pretty awesome. They try to mix both worlds together. A new market created? A new group of people willing to test and innovate a new way of armour making which, god forbid, might help current costume makers in their own projects. I think that the creators of these games would be proud when they see how much we care about their work and to which point we bring their creations to actual use beyond conventions.

    The point is these people are here looking for help and 405th does everything in its power to stop them. Personally, I am disgusted with 405th on that point. I can’t blame you guys really, it’s an USA thing (don’t get all offended now, you guys have more laws and regulations than any other country). For safety issues and law suits, these are the reasons you give. I got an easy solution. If a thread contains airsoft/paintball stuff, PUT A DISCLAIMER! Not hard. When someone creates a new thread add a check mark box for airsoft/paintball related issues. This but one among many possible solutions.

    Here is one example; Airsoftcanada.com is the site for airsoft in Canada. You cannot play an organised game without being age verified by a staff member, signing a disclaimer saying you are sole responsible for any and all related airsoft accidents and wearing the correct protection which is safety glasses.

    I have played airsoft with shoes, shorts, glasses (eye protection) and the gun. NOTHING ELSE. I will try to be clear here I was wearing no armour not even a tactical vest, nothing but my skin and shorts. The reason why 405th is scared is because they have not all played these games and don’t know much about them. I would test anyone to not be scared when a new group of people show up using your life’s work to their whim. They are scared of the unknown. What is wrong here is that there is no apparent effort from the 405th to accommodate a growing minority among its members. What 405th should know is that the armour would suffer the damage and not the person and that while you would not suffer damage to your fragile suit, we would.

    Now, this is my first post on the 405th. I am expecting to get called many distasteful things, getting the thread locked and probably my account banned, but I said what needed to be heard. Go censor cops!

    Sorry for the long post. happy hating 405th! be as negative as you can
    Last edited by yelcpo; 07-24-2011, 12:16 PM. Reason: cleaning up text

  • Nintendude's Avatar
    Banned
    • Dec 2007
    • 3464

    #2
    The reason the 405th does not like to associate the armor with paintball or airsoft use is because we don't want to have some kid with a lawsuit attacking the 405th because they got injured using something that is not intended for that kind of use. If we condoned it then people would say that the files could be used for that purpose. But with fiberglass, resin, bondo, and paper is'nt really going to protect you. It get's hit in the wrong spot and you could break the fiberglass on the back of the armor causing it to scratch, cut or stab you through the clothing under the armor. We just don't want to be accountable for injuries sustained through stupidity.

    Comment


    • yelcpo's Avatar
      Pending Verification
      • Jul 2011
      • 7

      #3
      Makes perfect sense, that's why before anyone has access to any information you make them read the disclaimer. the problem is that you can play paintball while being a minor which could result in a accident. I understand your worries on the subject how ever i have played with people with years of experience and no one has ever had an injury while playing airsoft that was caused from the sport itself. I have fallen a few times and seen people get scraped but that's from running through rough terrain. Now what if some one wanted to use the armor in a LARP environment? the armor would have be stronger than for airsoft yet no one would a problem with it because we are using swords made out of pvc and duct tape and that gun replicas are being used.

      Comment


      • Pipinacan's Avatar
        Infantryman
        • Jul 2010
        • 704

        #4
        Well I'm not trying to be negative, but what happens if we tell people yeah, this will work and protect you! Then, this kid goes out with his super cool halo armor, gets shot in the face, something is brittle and breaks, and then he becomes blind and blames the 405th for saying it would protect him. That is the main point we try to tell people is no one has really done it, and there is no way so far on the 405th to make it completely dependable for safety. That being said we really can't help, if you find a way that is 100% way safe and can use it, then you do it. Asking us to keep you safe but look super cool (and have the mobility to even airsoft) is not the point of the 405th. The point of this site is for prop use only, not safety or activity aside from costume purposes.

        Please read that and understand that it won't change unless you find a truely safe way yourself




        Edit: typed that while you both were making those comments and never hit sent, buuut another real reason is you can't move very well in a full suit on, it would make airsoft unenjoyable in my opinion, only judging from me going paintballing. You can't hide, you can hardly aim, you can barely run, you'll overheat super fast, andit's just not fun at all.
        Last edited by Pipinacan; 07-24-2011, 12:49 PM.

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        • yelcpo's Avatar
          Pending Verification
          • Jul 2011
          • 7

          #5
          I agree with you, but that right there is the problem. You are under the impression that we seek the armour for protection. We are not. In your example the victim did not wear the proper eye protection which is required. What we are looking for is something that can protect itself and not us since, i will be as clear as possible, we do not need protection from this armour. We have our safety glasses. the armour already is 100% safe since there is no damage done to the person wearing it.

          Comment


          • Darkrider9's Avatar
            Infantryman
            • Mar 2011
            • 590

            #6
            Originally posted by Nintendude View Post
            The reason the 405th does not like to associate the armor with paintball or airsoft use is because we don't want to have some kid with a lawsuit attacking the 405th because they got injured using something that is not intended for that kind of use. If we condoned it then people would say that the files could be used for that purpose. But with fiberglass, resin, bondo, and paper is'nt really going to protect you. It get's hit in the wrong spot and you could break the fiberglass on the back of the armor causing it to scratch, cut or stab you through the clothing under the armor. We just don't want to be accountable for injuries sustained through stupidity.
            I'm going to +1 this and say that this is the sole reason why we don't want people using this armor for airsoft. I know there's a video around that shows a helmet basically shattering and exploding when hit with paintballs and airsoft pellets.

            Originally posted by yelcpo View Post
            I have played airsoft with shoes, shorts, glasses (eye protection) and the gun. NOTHING ELSE. I will try to be clear here I was wearing no armour not even a tactical vest, nothing but my skin and shorts. The reason why 405th is scared is because they have not all played these games and don’t know much about them. I would test anyone to not be scared when a new group of people show up using your life’s work to their whim. They are scared of the unknown. What is wrong here is that there is no apparent effort from the 405th to accommodate a growing minority among its members. What 405th should know is that the armour would suffer the damage and not the person and that while you would not suffer damage to your fragile suit, we would.
            First underlined part: Not really, many 405th members are avid airsoft players, myself included, and we know the dangers. When the armor gets hit with projectiles bits of fiberglass and bondo can possible come flying into you, and hardened fiberglass can get VERY sharp. If we did condone the making of armor for paintball and airsoft, someone who got hurt would be able to sue us and possibly cause the closure of this awesome site. I also think the reason you posted this is because you don't know enough about the 405th and armor making. If you did, then you would know about the dangers, as stated before, and the fact that our suits can get very heavy, especially if you are reinforcing them for use in airsoft, you are looking at a good 30-60 pound suit, and I would definitely not want to lug that around. You would also know that it gets extremely hot and stuffy inside out suits, and they limit mobility. So after all, why would you even want to wear armor in airsoft, it would most definitely cause you to lose.

            2nd underlined part: As stated before, you would also suffer bodily harm/damage, as well as the armor. As for the second part, yeah your suit would get ruined, why would you want to ruin something in 10 minutes that you may have spent 6 months to a year on?

            Sure, it would be wonderful to group up and try to find new and innovative ways to make armor that can stand up to airsoft and paintball projectiles. It may very well lead to a new way of making or hardening armor, but it's too much of a risk when following that pursuit can lead to the closure of the website as a whole.

            Edit: Missed a few posts while I was typing, so I may have missed a few points, sorry.

            Originally posted by yelcpo View Post
            I agree with you, but that right there is the problem. You are under the impression that we seek the armour for protection. We are not. In your example the victim did not wear the proper eye protection which is required. What we are looking for is something that can protect itself and not us since, i will be as clear as possible, we do not need protection from this armour. We have our safety glasses. the armour already is 100% safe since there is no damage done to the person wearing it.
            If the armor is protecting itself then it is protecting you as you are inside it.

            3nd underline: Chest protection is not required in airsoft, what if a lucky shot hits your chest piece and it caves in and a bit of fiberglass creates a nice gash across your chest? So yeah, there would be lots of damage done.

            Edit: Here is the video I mentioned earlier.
            Last edited by Darkrider9; 07-24-2011, 12:55 PM.

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            • yelcpo's Avatar
              Pending Verification
              • Jul 2011
              • 7

              #7
              So far we've established that we cannot put 405th at risk of closure. Fireglass and Bondo are not suitable materials for airsoft armour. 30-60 pounds of equipment is realistic. Which is why I play Milsims (military simulations) as in to simulate as much as possible even the weight.

              As stated before different materials exist that would hold their form and not become harmful if damaged. I keep seeing this idea that people think you would keep playing when you have fiberglass applied to your skin, I have manipulated it before (repairing flat water racing canoes).

              Right now the 405th site is not equipped to deal with these types of builds. That is why I propose a new section be made for these types of builds where proper controls can be placed to protect 405th.

              Sorry missed that last bit :P The purpose of the armour changes its properties, as you know your armour is made to look pretty and accurate, the military's armour is made to protect the person inside it as effectively as possible. Our armour would be to survive rocks, trees and plastic pellets.
              Last edited by yelcpo; 07-24-2011, 01:12 PM.

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              • Pipinacan's Avatar
                Infantryman
                • Jul 2010
                • 704

                #8
                Originally posted by yelcpo View Post
                So far we've established that we cannot put 405th at risk of closure. Fireglass and Bondo are not suitable materials for airsoft armour. 30-60 pounds of equipment is realistic. Which is why I play Milsims (military simulations) as in to simulate as much as possible even the weight.

                As stated before different materials exist that would hold their form and not become harmful if damaged. I keep seeing this idea that people think you would keep playing when you have fiberglass applied to your skin, I have manipulated it before (repairing flat water racing canoes).

                Right now the 405th site is not equipped to deal with these types of builds. That is why I propose a new section be made for these types of builds where proper controls can be placed to protect 405th.
                Great idea, but are you planning on starting up a new forum for it? Because that's still not what the mods want from the 405th, so it'll probably not happen

                Comment


                • Darkrider9's Avatar
                  Infantryman
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 590

                  #9
                  Originally posted by yelcpo View Post
                  So far we've established that we cannot put 405th at risk of closure. Fireglass and Bondo are not suitable materials for airsoft armour. 30-60 pounds of equipment is realistic. Which is why I play Milsims (military simulations) as in to simulate as much as possible even the weight.

                  As stated before different materials exist that would hold their form and not become harmful if damaged. I keep seeing this idea that people think you would keep playing when you have fiberglass applied to your skin, I have manipulated it before (repairing flat water racing canoes).

                  Right now the 405th site is not equipped to deal with these types of builds. That is why I propose a new section be made for these types of builds where proper controls can be placed to protect 405th.
                  That is a large change to be made to cater to a small group of new people who come here looking for paintball armor. Many Infantryman members wouldn't post there, as they know this armor, even if a safe material was found, isn't practical for airsoft or paintball use. I have a feeling that that section would be what our noob forum is now, but even more cluttered. It's a good idea, but I don't see it ever coming to fruition. However, I'm happy to see someone come here who doesn't go off flaming and arguing once someone posts something against their opinions, it's nice to see a formal discussion/debate going on for once, so props to you for that.

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                  • yelcpo's Avatar
                    Pending Verification
                    • Jul 2011
                    • 7

                    #10
                    Of course it wont happen lol. I knew that from the start, I know that only a handfull of people will ever take notice of this thread. My point is some one had to say what others were thinking. As Gandhi said "Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." I know nothing will come of this. Ty for not burning me at the steak lol

                    anyways to go on?


                    form my other edit 2 posts up
                    Sorry missed that last bit :P The purpose of the armour changes its properties, as you know your armour is made to look pretty and accurate, the military's armour is made to protect the person inside it as effectively as possible. Our armour would be to survive rocks, trees and plastic pellets.

                    We don't want it to break. I recently read a thread that showed the proper materials that would resist impact and survive! Of course the creator estimated a total cost of 2.5k$ to 3k$ USD, but it's out there.

                    Now you say the section would be much like the current noob section. That is perfect! Exactly what we need!

                    Comment


                    • Darkrider9's Avatar
                      Infantryman
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 590

                      #11
                      Originally posted by yelcpo View Post
                      Now you say the section would be much like the current noob section. That is perfect! Exactly what we need!
                      What I meant by that was that it would be filled with clutter and posts like "how does i make hal0 piantblal armor", with not to many actual builds.

                      You should try making armor as just a prop though, its really fun and this is a great community to get involved with.

                      Comment


                      • ventrue's Avatar
                        Infantryman
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 2743

                        #12
                        Originally posted by yelcpo View Post
                        We don't want it to break. I recently read a thread that showed the proper materials that would resist impact and survive! Of course the creator estimated a total cost of 2.5k$ to 3k$ USD, but it's out there.
                        I think I remember that one. It's the one with the real weapons and the moral debate, right? You may have noticed that the armour looked pretty shot up after being, well, shot up.

                        Quite frankly, if you think you have to do this, then by all means, do it. It says in your profile that you're an adult, so you can ignore all advice whenever you please and do whatever you think is best - as long as you don't harm anyone else.

                        What I do not understand is why you insist on changing the 405th. All of your posts are in this thread, so basically the first thing you did after signing up is complain that it's not the way you like. Civilised discussion or not, that's kind of impolite, wouldn't you agree? I don't want to drive you away, but if your interests and the 405th's profile don't match, then maybe you should simply look for a different community that does match your interests?
                        Last edited by ventrue; 07-24-2011, 01:51 PM.

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                        • Nintendude's Avatar
                          Banned
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 3464

                          #13
                          Right now I wish I had my camera working, when I first joined the forums here I thought I could make armor that would protect against paintball and airsoft, big mistake I have a scar on the back of my arm, chest and shoulder from trying to do that. As soon as my camera is working again I think I need to start a thread to show just what can happen when armor is used for something other than costuming.

                          Comment


                          • *Tayl0r*'s Avatar
                            Infantryman
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 323

                            #14
                            As an avid airsofter and paintballer. I gotta say this thread has some points. I think the main reason why people aren't content with Halo armor combined with airsoft and paintball is because 1. the 405th does not want to be held liable and make it seem like it encourages that kind of activity because if someone gets hurt, lawsuits or something like that could come up, and 2. The how moblie people can be in their suits.

                            I don't see how an ODST or Marine couldn't do it, but a full Spartan suit is what throws many people off.

                            Comment


                            • yelcpo's Avatar
                              Pending Verification
                              • Jul 2011
                              • 7

                              #15
                              I have already started armour! Odst amour i've just finished Pep, THough i couldn't continue my winter work cause of school and life.

                              Venture, you are correct about the armor being shot up, but he was using real bullets and I'm using plastic pellets. "Nough said" I not just complaining, I am looking at the problem in depth and offering solutions Mr.Troll. It does not mater who I am or how long i have been here. I am raising problems that need attention. The reason why i do this is because people who want to build strong armour are getting ramped, match my interests? Dude your talking about a technicality here. Building armour is building armour, why would we separate strong armour from convention armour?
                              Last edited by yelcpo; 07-24-2011, 02:37 PM.

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