Darkesword2020 Odst Helmet Run?

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Link's helmet is on the left, Fitz's is on the right.



It's still a crappy pic Fitz, I tried to fix it for you a bit:



LinkFitz.jpg






Alright, time to put this to bed.



I just want to first say that I am not ruling on this as a 405th moderator, just as a guy who has two friends that had a misunderstanding. I have no authority to pass judgement here, I'm not an arbitrator for these kinds of disagreements at all, I just didn't want to see two good guys get into a fight without trying to help them solve their differences.



I've just gotten off the phone with Fitz concerning this.. and he's let me know that he doesn't have internet access for the rest of the night so he can't post here until tomorrow. He has some explaining to do about his intentions with Link's visors, but I consider his recasting defense plausible and now verified with the above photo. HOWEVER I want to stress that does not let anybody off the hook for accusing Fitz and running his reputation through the mud. Appologies are due all around fellas.



This did have all the warning signs of a typical recasting situation.. bad photos, unlikely explanations, and lack of good defense. I think this is truly just a misunderstanding, and I don't blame Link in the least for wanting to defend his creations.. Any one of us would have done the same if we suspected somone was making off with our hard work.



I've known both these guys for long enough to know that they're both talented, sensitive and trustworthy.. in other words they're good guys who are a great deal more alike than either of them are aware. One of the drawbacks to being a good guy is that people do try to take advantage of you sooner or later, so being defensive is frequently warranted. Sometimes though a good defense backfires.. and I think thats what happened here.



In short, heres how this happened:



Fitz made a ODST helmet, but had no means to create visors. He wanted to provide visors by purchasing them outright from Link but didn't want to step on any toes as a competitor. He listed his sales elsewhere in order to seperate the 'market' for the similar item. Fitz's camera is genuinely broken and thusly he doesn't have any reasonable documentation of it's progress or the finished product. He posted the sales solely based on his reputation hoping that people felt they knew him well enough to trust him. Link recognized the visor and likewise a helmet that bore a striking resemblence to his own and raised the recaster flag. This being Fitz's first effort to share his work with the 405th he was hurt by the accusation and felt he should dissasociate himself rather than go to bat with Link. Now the relationship between the two is messed up and Fitz's reputation is pretty sullied, and we're all at a loss for it.



Is Fitz selling recasts of links helmet?: Most likely not. Did he cross a line by intending to use Links visors with his helmet run?: Quite possibly. Could all this have been avoided if we all trusted each other a little more and were less defensive with fellow 405thers? Absolutely.



I remember better days here when we all shared our work and experience with each other more freely and it was a nicer place exchange our interests. I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but it feels a little tense around here right now. Whether it be because of the upcoming ODST costume season or due to everyone working twice as hard and not having as much time to talk to one another... I kinda feel like times are a little gruff around here, and I really wish it weren't that way. It's kind of a sad signpost to see this kind of apprehension and distrust rampant in our community. I now understand Fitz's sentiment earlier about trust.



Can we all take a deep breath and remember that we're all brothers (and sisters) on the same team, here because we all love the same things and want to share in our appreciation? Can we agree to put petty issues behind us and work togehter with trust, transparency, and goodwill? Can we remember that the internet isn't just a great invention for networking and doing business but is also a place where we can make lifelong friendships and find the acceptance we've been seeking in our personal lives?



I still have deep respect for both you guys. I hope you can shake hands and forget about this misunderstanding. I don't expect or demand it, but I'll always have a little hope.
 
Thats understood dude, and I think he'll have to explain himself on that point. If it were up to me I'd cut him a little slack... we've ALL made mistakes... I mean half the internet thinks this poor kid's a recaster and he hasn't even cast a single helmet.. he's just trying to scrape together the funds to make a mold. This was his first time showing anyone his first helmet, and he was met with this reaction...



I don't think any of us would have survived that when we got started. He made a mistake and I accept that you probably can't take his appology from me.. I'm just trying to facilitate here until he can respond himself.
 
well not to change the subject or anything, but I too have noticed times around here right now are a little gruff. With all the rube recasting flame wars, and all the hackers. It seems like as we grow to have more members, we grow sort of apart with the people we have known from the start. I have been here since this was the Mjolnir forums, but I was FOXTROTT ALPHA. and I must say that even though the work of our members has gotten better, I liked the community and friendship back then better than at this moment in time. I really hope that you guys can work this out. Mabe if Fitz sells the helmets with link's visors, then link could get like 15% of the sale? that could be a solution. Mabe there can be a happy medium in the end.....at least I sure hope so :)
 
Thank you Sean for handling this neutraly.



I think we should make a ticket system, like on ebay, to report possible recasts privatly, without interfering with this person's reputation until enough proofs are gathered.



As we say here : Innocent until proved otherwise.
 
LastSpartan said:
Thank you Sean for handling this neutraly.



I think we should make a ticket system, like on ebay, to report possible recasts privatly, without interfering with this person's reputation until enough proofs are gathered.



As we say here : Innocent until proved otherwise.



ill second third and fourth that
 
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Can we all take a deep breath and remember that we're all brothers (and sisters) on the same team, here because we all love the same things and want to share in our appreciation? Can we agree to put petty issues behind us and work togehter with trust, transparency, and goodwill? Can we remember that the internet isn't just a great invention for networking and doing business but is also a place where we can make lifelong friendships and find the acceptance we've been seeking in our personal lives?



*Sniff* That was beautiful Sean! :D



I've notice a few of the issues recently as well. It makes my heart sad, but until we find a solution for it, we've all just got to keep playing our part to be an honest and caring community. Spread some love to yo fellow brothers in Halo! :lol



Also,





wow you went all CSI on us



That iz sum epic lulz right thar. :p
 
Any concerns about business practices or false representation are allayed. I see now that Fitz had a master ready for molding. I only wish that better quality pics had been used to help prevent this whole misunderstanding from occurring. We all are on the same team here, and let's keep the good work coming (hopefully with good pics, though. :D )
 
link4044 said:
well put sean..but still dont like to be lied to about the visors





Link, since everything else has been explained, I'll just tell you what I had in mind concerning the visors.



You have to realize, there was no ill will intended when I asked to buy your visors; I didn't think you'd have an issue with me including them with the run of helmets I was doing; I wasn't trying to lie when I said they for the team. I just figured you'd be fine with me including them with my helmets, and giving some to my group. I wasn't planning on calling the visors mine, not in the least; If I was going to include them with my helmets; then I was going to give credit to you for making the visors, and when I would've run out of visors, I would've referred them to you to get a visor.



Should I have asked you first? Now I know I should have, at the time I didn't think there'd be an issue with me using the visors, and giving you the credit, seeing as you'd be getting a good bit of business anyways with your visors and my run of helmets. That being said, I can't change the past; but I can give you my apology for not telling you my full intentions concerning the visors you would've sold to me.



So on that note, Link I apologize to you. I apologize because I didn't think you'd mind if I would've taken your visors, included them with casts of my helmet, and telling the buyer that the included visor was your visor and your work, and for any who would've wanted another visor, refer them your way. That was my intention Link. I can appreciate that you would be worried about your creation, I would've been too if it were me in your situation.



I think this could've been settled privately as has been stated before, now I have to explain to The Dented Helmet admin staff because someone went ahead and reported me there, and then to top it off, same with the people on The Rpf thanks to this. I don't think that's fair at all.



At any rate, what's done is done.
 
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As I said in my post earlier, you did have a full year to work on it and it was plausible either way. Although, by previous posts I was under the understanding the top photo was one you had taken from Link's e-bay bids. You'll have to understand my intentions was to clean the air of that problem, not to point you out as a recaster. So I offer my apologies on that. Reguardless, glad it all got sorted out in the early run. Hey on the plus side everyone got a free lesson in EXIF data to prove ownership in future cases! To early to laugh? Ok...



Cheers,

Kensai
 
i think you still told me what you were doing in the first place bro. the clear pictures would have been good in the first place like UNSC_Leatherneck said the whole thing wouldnt happen
 
The other thing of note that I'd like to add.



I haven't taken a deposit, or any cash for that matter from any of the interested people on the RPF, or the Dented Helmet; it was more of a, "I've been working on this helmet, and am now proceeding to get it molded, put your name down if you want me to contact you when it's molded and I have casts available."



That's all I was trying to do by posting those threads up.
 
i think the person who reported you to the dented helm and the RPF should message them and explain the missunderstanding

glad that this got sorted out



and seans comment on the atmoshpere around here is probably because of this recession

so everyone is worried that people will recast stuff just to make some money that they didn't earn
 
Glad this got sorted out. I hate seeing situations like this get to the point they got to. But on that note, I also had a feeling things would find a way to work themselves out.



adventSpartanMatrix said:
and seans comment on the atmoshpere around here is probably because of this recession

so everyone is worried that people will recast stuff just to make some money that they didn't earn



That was my thinking exactly. Unfortunately, the extremely difficult economic times effect absolutely everything around them. When desperate times call for desperate measures, people do just about anything to get through them, even if it is something dishonest. I am not implying that happened here, please don't think that. I fully trust that Fitz had every good intention in the world, but like Sean said, there were some mistakes made that resulted in a huge misunderstanding. I hope that we can all take a lesson from this experience and continue to treat each other like a family here. I have nothing but respect for the people that put themselves out there to share their work with the community. I can only hope that I get to that point someday.
 
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I happen to know the person who reported the thread on the Dented Helmet. The RPF report was a different person. He reported the thread to the Dented Helmet moderating team to make them aware of potentially suspicious activity. The moderators were provided with a link to this thread on the 405th. This is appropriate procedure on a forum, make the moderators aware of any problems and let them look into it. As far as I know no sanctions have come from it and the matter is closed. I think we have talked this to death and the thread should be closed and everyone move on.
 
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