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  1. 405th Data File Librarian rundown's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2010, 12:53 AM - 3D Modeling For Pepakura (Basic 3D Knowledge Required) #1

    So you want to get involved into 3d modeling? Here is the solution. First you might want to pick a program that suits you the most.



    1. Beginning



    Autodesk 3ds max (expensive) http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...&siteID=123112

    Lightwave 3d (expensive) http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/

    Autodesk Maya (expensive) http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...&siteID=123112

    Cinéma 4d (expensive) http://www.maxon.net/index.php?id=18&L=0

    Blender (free) http://www.blender.org/

    Daz studio Hexagon (costs somewhat) http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/hexagon?_m=d

    Swift 3d stand-alone (costs somewhat) http://www.erain.com/Products/Swift3D/

    Milkshape 3d (free) http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/ms3d/download.html

    Sketchup (free but I dont really advise it, bug good enough for weapons in pep) http://sketchup.google.com/



    2. 3d modeling tutorials



    various:

    http://www.youtube.com (this is no joke, video tutorials are really helpfull)

    http://www.cgcookie.com/

    http://www.3dm3.com

    http://www.3dlessons.com/categories/...Tutorials.html

    http://www.3d-tutorial.com/



    Blender:

    http://www.blender.org/education-help/tutorials/



    Sketchup:

    http://sketchup.google.com/training/videos.html



    Cinéma 4d:

    http://www.tutorialized.com/tutorials/Cinema-4D/1



    Autodesk 3ds max:

    http://www.3dsmaxtutorials.net/

    Robby's tutorial taking form: http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=25931



    3. 3d modeling for pepakura (in blender but good for all programs)



    -Now when you start up your program ready to make an acurate 3d file you will need blueprints.

    This contains a mainly frontal view, side view and back view. If you can get top and down its even better.

    You will have to scale them to the same size and use lines to match it up like this





    -The basic idea is to create a solid mesh.

    So you dont want difrent objects crossing eachother. Like in the example below.







    -You can do this in diffrent ways. You can model it all at once for the more advanced users. or you can join them together with something called bolean join. (note: you wont have this in less up to date programs)



    -Well the rest is just extruding and adding just vertices.

    There are also diffrent modifiers to mirror, bevel, smooth,...



    -Try not to get to many traingles when modeling. Just try to stay with polygons (squares)

    This is better for rendering and the overall look. Almost every modeler hates traingles.

    Only use them if you have no other way.

    You mostly will get traingles after you bolean joined objects SO dont freak out. This is normal. But that is ok aslong as you dont edit it aftyerwards. Or you will get this problem.



    notice the traingles raising up a bit. Thats wy you should bolean join in the end and not during the modeling itself.



    -Once your model is created you will need to export the 3d data. All these programs have diffrent options of exporting. But i suggest if you have the chance to export to .obj

    This file extension is the most usable with every software there is. Its beloved in the 3d community.



    -If your model looks like it has open edges (red lines) in pepakura like this.

    (pic from Horgh) This means not all the faces of the 3d model are in the same direction.





    to solve this, tab to switch to edit view. Watch in textured mode. Hit a to select all verts. Then hit Ctrl shift N. If your model now is somewhat transparent hit W wile all the verts are still selected. And choose "flip normals".

    If there still are some faces that are see hrough just select the face and do the flip normal again.



    -If you still have red lines in pep it means you have double vertices.

    To solve this just simply select your model go to edit view by hitting tab. Hit A to select all, then hit W and choose remove doubles.



    -You can also have red lines due to bad edge flow.







    The line on the left is caused by two vertices not lining up in the middle of the line. As the vertices don't line up, the faces on either side of the line are not connected.



    The lines on the right are caused what I like to call a "hidden face", a face that sits fully inside the model (technically it can be on the outside, but it will be a lot more obvious). Pepakura designer can only work with one continuous surface, meaning that any line that is connected to more than two faces will be causing open edges.



    Same model viewed in Blender:







    The solution to the problem on the left is to make the two vertices in the middle match up, and remove doubles. The solution to the problem to the right is to delete the edge underlined in green. This will effectively remove the inside face (seen as a darker surface while in wireframe mode) and no open edges will occur.







    -If you want to give your model a texture make sure the texture is all on one single .jpg or other photo file. Since pepakura only is able to read one texture at a time. So my advice, do diffrent objects at a time.





    After you got the hang of the modeling its up to you to get as less as triangles. Modelers hate it! since they couse bad poly flow and renders!

    here is how you can make better loops in your models without having the need of a triangle.





    If you model like this the bolean should work normally in blender. I know its somethines anoying. But try to model it instead of merging it first. I only use the bolean to ad cillinders to my mesh.



    -Also pepakura only reads the base mesh. So dont get your hopes up that it reads bumpmaps. Even if it could read this it would be ridiculously hard to make.



    This is just the basic idea of pepakura modeling. Now get cracking and learn the basics of a 3d program!











    Now when you are able to model with all this knowledge you might want to get cracking on making it wearable. I happened to find this 3d model (standard mudbox mesh) the best and having the most realistic anatomy.



    download link 3d body mesh: http://www.4shared.com/file/QjiwGLnu/body.html









    I will update this as mutch as i can If you have any good information to share post it! i might ad it!
  2. bevbor's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2010, 1:30 AM - #2

    [quote name='rundown' date='17 March 2010 - 07:53 AM' timestamp='1268805194' post='404818']



    The basic idea is to create a solid mesh.



    Well the rest is just extruding and adding just vertices.



    [/quote]



    Well, good you succeeded to abstract off the some particular application...



    But.. I imagine myself a noob and have a few questions:



    1.) what is Solid Mesh ?

    2.) What are Vertices ?



    I think without exoplanation of those basics noobc could not to go any further



    Thangya
  3. IroniumCostuming's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2010, 1:50 AM - #3

    [quote name='bevbor' date='16 March 2010 - 08:30 PM' timestamp='1268807408' post='404828']

    Well, good you succeeded to abstract off the some particular application...



    But.. I imagine myself a noob and have a few questions:



    1.) what is Solid Mesh ?

    2.) What are Vertices ?



    I think without exoplanation of those basics noobc could not to go any further



    Thangya

    [/quote]

    a vertecie is the small [node as i call it] point that makes up a mesh, like 8 verts to a cube, each point in other words are verts
  4. bevbor's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2010, 2:02 AM - #4

    [quote name='IroniumCostuming' date='17 March 2010 - 08:50 AM' timestamp='1268808659' post='404830']

    a vertecie is the small [node as i call it] point that makes up a mesh, like 8 verts to a cube, each point in other words are verts

    [/quote]



    Whatze...! Since when points have a size??? "Small Point", ha-ha!! Are there exists also a "Large points"??? Lol!



    I'd explain the meaning of "vertice" as "fully described point". That means we know it's exact XYZ coords in the space.

    For example: members of a line are points, but not vertices, cause about ilne we know only coords of begin and end points, that ARE vertices

    Am I right?
  5. New Recruit
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    Mar 17, 2010, 6:19 AM - #5

    I think this is a great idea for a thread. I'm with Bevbor though, I think a really helpful thing to do might be to break down the vocabulary, right down to basics. I found the the hardest thing when I first got into 3d was all the terminology and definitions. Splines, nurbs, subdivision sufaces, UVW's, primatives etc etc.. It's all really basic but, unless you get them broken down, the vernacular can make the subject intimidating.
  6. AceHigh is offline AceHigh
    Mar 17, 2010, 7:09 AM - #6

    I'm liking the thread. I'm guessing this isn't supposed to be for complete noobs, but for those with some degree of understanding of 3D programs. If this is meant to teach from the very beginning, it needs to go waaay back.



    I have a few questions when it comes to modelling for pepakura that perhaps can be answered here.



    1: Are triangles really that bad when it comes to modelling for pepakura? I have done some searching, and from what I gather modellers don't like triangles for three reasons (coincidence?): bad rendering, unpredictable loop cuts and difficultys in animating. If you don't mind the odd loop cuts, it doesn't really seem to me that triangles are all that bad.



    2: If I do stay with quads, is there any way to merge flaps/edges in pepakura designer? When trying to use mostly quads, end pieces tend to get clustered with a lot of different faces on a detailed model. This makes pepakura designer designate an edge ID for each and every face, meaning you can end up with 10 or even more edge IDs for an edge where 1 would have sufficed.



    3: Is there any free 3D software that have good booleans? I have tried modelling using booleans, but Blender completely screws my models when I do. I can add something to one end, and have Blender remove 20 or so vertices from the other side of the model.
  7. 405th Data File Librarian rundown's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2010, 8:24 AM - #7

    I wrote this for people that already knopw the basic of modeling. So they could make pep models. I'm not gonna describe how the modeling itself is. That would be to long a job to do. Since there are alot of programs out there and diffrent technique's. Thats wy i gave a list so you can choose the program that suits you.
  8. Boba Fett's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2010, 8:30 AM - #8

    thanks rundown! This should be very helpful!
  9. 405th Data File Librarian rundown's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2010, 12:55 PM - #9

    [quote name='AceHigh' date='17 March 2010 - 12:09 PM' timestamp='1268827794' post='404871']

    I'm liking the thread. I'm guessing this isn't supposed to be for complete noobs, but for those with some degree of understanding of 3D programs. If this is meant to teach from the very beginning, it needs to go waaay back.



    I have a few questions when it comes to modelling for pepakura that perhaps can be answered here.



    1: Are triangles really that bad when it comes to modelling for pepakura? I have done some searching, and from what I gather modellers don't like triangles for three reasons (coincidence?): bad rendering, unpredictable loop cuts and difficultys in animating. If you don't mind the odd loop cuts, it doesn't really seem to me that triangles are all that bad.



    2: If I do stay with quads, is there any way to merge flaps/edges in pepakura designer? When trying to use mostly quads, end pieces tend to get clustered with a lot of different faces on a detailed model. This makes pepakura designer designate an edge ID for each and every face, meaning you can end up with 10 or even more edge IDs for an edge where 1 would have sufficed.



    3: Is there any free 3D software that have good booleans? I have tried modelling using booleans, but Blender completely screws my models when I do. I can add something to one end, and have Blender remove 20 or so vertices from the other side of the model.

    [/quote]



    answer moved to 1st post to keep it organized!
  10. bevbor's Avatar
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    Mar 17, 2010, 6:49 PM - #10

    May I add some tutorials too?

    Well, my tut called "How to create a decent SWCW weapon pepakura file just in a few touches with some CAD application in 10 minutes"



    I decided to take for example mandalorian blaster from SWCW S2E12:







    It have simple boxy form, and still impressive



    Ok, simplies way to do less work on this model is to draw it's side contour on some plane and then

    extrude particular silhouettes to different thickness. Let's begin



    First of all, we choose a plane:

    (press on pictures to enlarge)







    Than for easier reference, we put ref pic directly on this plane and slightly turn it to get blaster's top line parallel to horisontal:







    Than, we need to copy the approximate contour of our blaster to choosen plane. I used there only lines:







    Now we can remove the picture from background and do a little cleanup:













    Now we choose the contour for first extrude (seen as darkest black on sketch picture :







    And doing extrude of it to one side direction...







    And then to other direction for the same thickness:







    Ok, we repeat this operation for each particular contour for it's own thickness...



















    Then we need to draw a sketch for making the barrel. I choose for this sketch the front face of blaster:







    And then - extrude that sketch to both sides:







    Draw a sketch on front of the barrel - to make cut to make barrel hollow







    That's IT! The END!







    Well, now we need to save the file in format that PepDesigner might read. My SolidWorks doesn't save OBJ format, but fortunately

    SW can export models in STL format, and PD also understand that format without any problem.







    Now open it in Pepakura designer...







    ...And unfold it!







    That's really this easy. Try and you will succeed.

    Good luck!
  11. AceHigh is offline AceHigh
    Mar 17, 2010, 7:15 PM - #11

    [quote name='rundown' date='17 March 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1268848527' post='404933']

    here is a trick to get more details in your models without adding all those lines (dont look at the tools, just the mesh)

    Looks alot better doesn't it And guess what. No traingles



    If you model like this the bolean should work normally in blender. I know its somethines anoying. But try to model it instead of merging it first. I only use the bolean to ad cillinders to my mesh.

    [/quote]



    I have actually done that by accident sometimes.



    What about when adding circles and cylinders? My latest model got screwed up when I booleaned cylinders into the model. Also, if you want any kind of smoothness on your circles they make for a lot of little vertices that cries out for attachment...



    Edit: After trying the detailing tip three things are becomming clear:



    1: It's addicting trying to remove as many vertices as possible while keeping all quads.

    2: It's better done continuously from the beginning, not when you have a completed model.

    3: rundown REALLY knows his stuff.



    Alright, I knew number 3 before hand, but for anyone new to modelling, listen to rundown.
  12. New Recruit
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    Mar 17, 2010, 8:52 PM - #12

    I think a lot of issues can be solved when it comes to unfolding in pepakura, Mesh resolution is unimportant as long as you model with good edge loops. Simply altering your fold angle in pepakura will make the program view you edgeloops as long strips, they also make it easier to manually cut your model,

    I think its best to avoid triangles because when you're modelling with subdivision surfaces/hypernurbs/whatever your application calls it, your tris interfere with nice smooth loops.

    As for boolean operators, I very rarely use them at all, and I cant think of a time I've had to model something where using a boolean was necessary
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    Mar 17, 2010, 11:14 PM - #13

    [quote name='NZ-TK' date='17 March 2010 - 06:52 PM' timestamp='1268877136' post='405075']

    I think a lot of issues can be solved when it comes to unfolding in pepakura, Mesh resolution is unimportant as long as you model with good edge loops. Simply altering your fold angle in pepakura will make the program view you edgeloops as long strips, they also make it easier to manually cut your model,

    I think its best to avoid triangles because when you're modelling with subdivision surfaces/hypernurbs/whatever your application calls it, your tris interfere with nice smooth loops.

    As for boolean operators, I very rarely use them at all, and I cant think of a time I've had to model something where using a boolean was necessary

    [/quote]



    Yeah I'd like to second the lack of using the boolean operators. When I was first starting out many many years ago I used boolean modifiers a ton but it always turned my models into a mess. These days I never use them, you can always get around them by thinking about where to make cuts and smart edge flow.
  14. Spartan 051's Avatar
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    Mar 18, 2010, 12:10 PM - #14

    Rundown you might want want to show how recalulate normals (i know basic) but it will save a bunch of headaches for fixing open edges



    EDIT: if i get the time ill be happy how to show it in blender
  15. 405th Data File Librarian rundown's Avatar
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    Mar 18, 2010, 3:54 PM - #15

    [quote name='Spartan 051' date='18 March 2010 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1268932256' post='405257']

    Rundown you might want want to show how recalulate normals (i know basic) but it will save a bunch of headaches for fixing open edges



    EDIT: if i get the time ill be happy how to show it in blender

    [/quote]



    tab to switch to edit view. Watch in textured mode. Hit a to select all verts. Then hit Ctrl shift N. If your model now is somewhat transparent hit W wile all the verts are still selected. And choose "flip normals".

    If there still are some faces that are see hrough just select the face and do the flip normal thing.
  16. Spartan 051's Avatar
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    Apr 28, 2010, 11:11 AM - #16

    congrats on being a moderator.. Should be skied im sure alot will be looking once its full of topics
  17. 405th Data File Librarian rundown's Avatar
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    Apr 28, 2010, 11:12 AM - #17

    I hope this new forum part will work out good I'll do my best as i can in here
  18. GremlinLord's Avatar
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    Apr 28, 2010, 11:24 AM - #18

    For all you aspiring Blender artist looking to figure out how to do anything in the program read this: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro



    One of the best how to books for blender. Use the tutorials and tips in this section with the book and you'll be making stuff in no time. Keep in mind the book goes into some rather advance topics later on like ray tracing and texture + light sources, rigging models for animation, etc. We are only interested in making a mesh.
  19. Brandon McClain's Avatar
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    Apr 28, 2010, 11:32 AM - #19

    That's some great work. I started modeling like 6 years ago, but haven't really done much recently, hence not having touched the Halo stuff. This is all some great advice. It will really help those who are just starting out. Oh, and congrats. I know its not an easy job, so many thanks in advance for all the work you put in!
  20. New Recruit
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    Apr 28, 2010, 12:01 PM - #20

    I dunno if i can help out in this forum, ive only got 2 years modelling experience with blender.
  21. Member Since
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    Apr 28, 2010, 12:29 PM - #21

    good information Rundown just one correction Daz Studio isnt a modeling program

    DAZ does own modeling software,. such as Carrara and Hexagon, but DAZ Studio

    is there Free and Pay program for thier Poser Assets
  22. Jico's Avatar
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    Apr 28, 2010, 1:03 PM - #22

    Awesome!^^ This helps alot I can't thank you enought for the lates good and bad picture since it helped me out with my m24 sniper rifle model^^ Thank you!
  23. 405th Data File Librarian rundown's Avatar
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    Apr 29, 2010, 1:11 PM - #23

    updated first post about open edges
  24. AceHigh is offline AceHigh
    Apr 29, 2010, 1:54 PM - #24

    There are (at least) two other things that cause open edges that you haven't mentioned. I do a lot of fixing of open edges for people, and these are just as common as the faces being flipped.



    I have demonstrated this on the following model:







    The line on the left is caused by two vertices not lining up in the middle of the line. As the vertices don't line up, the faces on either side of the line are not connected.



    The lines on the right are caused what I like to call a "hidden face", a face that sits fully inside the model (technically it can be on the outside, but it will be a lot more obvious). Pepakura designer can only work with one continuous surface, meaning that any line that is connected to more than two faces will be causing open edges.



    Same model viewed in Blender:







    The solution to the problem on the left is to make the two vertices in the middle match up, and remove doubles. The solution to the problem to the right is to delete the edge underlined in green. This will effectively remove the inside face (seen as a darker surface while in wireframe mode) and no open edges will occur.



  25. 405th Data File Librarian rundown's Avatar
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    Apr 29, 2010, 2:05 PM - #25

    [quote name='AceHigh' date='29 April 2010 - 07:54 PM' timestamp='1272567274' post='421523']

    There are (at least) two other things that cause open edges that you haven't mentioned. I do a lot of fixing of open edges for people, and these are just as common as the faces being flipped.



    [/quote]



    Its in first post updating as it goes!

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