"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo

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So I've been sanding away at my three helmets on the worktable and my arms are dying... and it's taking so much time.

Here then, comes the question: Does anybody use a belt sander? How convenient is it? Does it mess up your projects?

I stopped using my palm sanders because the dust sticks and clumps on the sandpaper when I use those things. Yes, my bondo is thoroughly hardened. I just need a faster and efficient way to sand.

Thanks to all!

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Belt sanders are great for shaping foam and flattening large surfaces, but using it to sand down bondo on a helmet, ehhhh I wouldn't do it. It would tear through the helmet VERY easily if you weren't extremely careful. What grit sandpaper are you using? I've found that ~80 grit works for me to shape the bondo, and then once you have your shape, work your way up to about 400 using spot putty to fill in scratches made by the 80 grit.

Maybe an idea would be to modify the belt sander to where there is no hard surface underneath, letting the belt form around the shape of the helmet. Just a thought.
 
BiGHARYSCOTSMiN said:
So I've been sanding away at my three helmets on the worktable and my arms are dying... and it's taking so much time.

Here then, comes the question: Does anybody use a belt sander? How convenient is it? Does it mess up your projects?

I stopped using my palm sanders because the dust sticks and clumps on the sandpaper when I use those things. Yes, my bondo is thoroughly hardened. I just need a faster and efficient way to sand.
Click to expand...

Like Demogorgon said, a belt sander will eat through it too quickly, and you have very little control, especially since it is opposite of a palm sander. The belt sander stays stationary while the part you are working on is moved (for the one you showed in the picture, otherwise, the hand-held ones are way too heavy and cumbersome), whereas it should really be the other way around for the best control. Not only that, but since your project is facing away from you, you can not visually see what is happening most of the time... or at least it is more difficult to see.

I use a palm sander with either 80 or 120 grit, and get a ton of use out of each pad. I shop for the sanding pads at Harbor Freight simply to keep the cost down. They are pretty durable too. I use the spade shaped sander as I have found that my square and rectangle ones don't give me the same control and varied edges to work with.

To help aid in removing the clumps, try wiping the sandpaper on a heavy junk towel (while it is off of course!), and you could also try the sanding rubber that is designed for belt sanders. But, usually the clumping will happen when you are applying too much pressure and/or are using too fine of a grit of sandpaper (and of course the other reason that you stated was not the problem; uncured Bondo).
 
BiGHARYSCOTSMiN said:
So I've been sanding away at my three helmets on the worktable and my arms are dying... and it's taking so much time.

Here then, comes the question: Does anybody use a belt sander? How convenient is it? Does it mess up your projects?
Click to expand...

I have to agree with EVAKura, a belt sander would be quite a poor idea. Mouse sanders are definitely where it's at. I've been using a cheap Black & Decker from Walmart for several years now and I can smooth out a helmet in an hour or so using their 60 grit pads.
 
H'm interesting. Thank you guys for your inputs.

Gokussj5okazu said:
I can smooth out a helmet in an hour or so using their 60 grit pads.
Click to expand...

An hour? HOLY. I sat in my garage for four hours and accidentally skipped dinner time today. Got carried away, you see. But still, an hour... maybe 20 points of grit rating makes the world of difference lol

EVAkura said:
a belt sander will eat through it too quickly, and you have very little control (and) since your project is facing away from you, you can not visually see what is happening most of the time... or at least it is more difficult to see.
Click to expand...

You make a good point... I've always wondered how it would work guessing where your work is being sanded on those things, but I figured maybe the swiftness in progress will outweigh the cons of sanding with a loud-ass palm sander that bothers the neighbors...

I can't really do anything about the clogged sandpaper because it seems like the fiberglass resin that gets cut off when it reaches its layer acts like a glue and clumps... hard.

Do you guys sand through your layers of cardstock and resin? Maybe I should just stop doing that entirely hehe... but it's weird because it doesn't clump when I rub with sandpaper in hand.

IDK guys it sounds really nice being able to sand quickly without an obnoxiously loud sander that gets clogged and hurts like hell because of the vibrations... but I guess I'm going to have to deal with it to produce a top quality project... I mean the whole reason why I spend so much time with my stuff is so it comes out perfectly so maybe destroying thin parts with the belt machine is counter productive... just maybe
 
BiGHARYSCOTSMiN said:
I can't really do anything about the clogged sandpaper because it seems like the fiberglass resin that gets cut off when it reaches its layer acts like a glue and clumps... hard.

Do you guys sand through your layers of cardstock and resin? Maybe I should just stop doing that entirely hehe... but it's weird because it doesn't clump when I rub with sandpaper in hand.
Click to expand...

Yes, resin will clog up the sandpaper just about every time... especially if you are using polyester or polyurethane resin. Epoxy is not as bad because it is a harder resin. The reason why it is clogging up with your electric sander and not by hand is because of friction. Think of the resin as plastic (basically, that is what it is). The faster and harder you sand it, the more friction, hence... melting into clumps that clog your sandpaper.

I generally avoid sanding into the resin layer of my pep builds if at all possible. If I do, it is all hand sanding from that point on.

BTW, while looking for handheld mini belt sanders online, I came across this product... Very intriguing!!!!
 
EVAkura said:
Yes, resin will clog up the sandpaper just about every time...
Click to expand...

Yep... I knew it. I always thought I was doing it wrong but I keep every so slightly oversizing my builds so I can sand away some of the material to get a tighter tolerance in the end.

Well, not doing that anymore! ____!!!

EVAkura said:
I came across this product...
Click to expand...

...Sanding wands...? Damn those look small... maybe those might replace files because my files are always getting jammed up too, but those jam on everything anyway...

might try.

Thanks EVA
 
BiGHARYSCOTSMiN said:
.. maybe those might replace files because my files are always getting jammed up too, but those jam on everything anyway...
Click to expand...

A small cup (glass) of Acetone works wonders for instantly cleaning the gunk from the files, and it dries quick. I don't file without it :)
 
What are some names of Resin and Bondo to use? i know people say fiberglass resin but i thought it was just called resin?
 
Tom117 said:
What are some names of Resin and Bondo to use? i know people say fiberglass resin but i thought it was just called resin?
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Tom, unfortunately, since you are living in England, it is difficult to say what brands are available to you. But, here is some helpful info just the same.

There are 3 main types of resin that are used. Some people call it fiberglass resin because either that is what the can states (usually a marketing ploy to avoid stating what kind of resin it is), or because it is a very common use of resin to be used in conjunction with fiberglass. The three types are: Epoxy, Vinylester, and Polyester. In that order, they are from most expensive to least, quality from highest to lowest, and shrinkage percentage from least to most.

I use all three, and have noticed certain differences between them. My preference is most definitely Epoxy resin, and because the cost is only about 25-30% more, it is worth it to me. But just so you know, all 3 will work for what you want it to, and will do well.
 
EVAkura said:
Tom, unfortunately, since you are living in England, it is difficult to say what brands are available to you. But, here is some helpful info just the same.

There are 3 main types of resin that are used. Some people call it fiberglass resin because either that is what the can states (usually a marketing ploy to avoid stating what kind of resin it is), or because it is a very common use of resin to be used in conjunction with fiberglass. The three types are: Epoxy, Vinylester, and Polyester. In that order, they are from most expensive to least, quality from highest to lowest, and shrinkage percentage from least to most.

I use all three, and have noticed certain differences between them. My preference is most definitely Epoxy resin, and because the cost is only about 25-30% more, it is worth it to me. But just so you know, all 3 will work for what you want it to, and will do well.
Click to expand...

thank you! youve been most helpful as always! im sure google will come up with some Epoxy resin :D take care!
 
I wanted to pick the brains of the more experienced makers here, hopefully this comes across your feed. I am looking for confirmation of the construction materials I am planning on using for my build. Here is my current plan:


The plan is to use 1-2 layers of hardening resin on the pepakura skeleton, 1 layer of fiberglass on the inside,1 layer of Rondo (50%/50% Resin & Bondo slush) to smooth the inside, and Bondo on the outside for smoothing / sculpting.

Will these materials provide;
  • enough tensile strength to withstand pulling at connection points during removal and strenuous movement (ie. jumping, running, posing, etc.), and
  • enough compression strength to withstand strenuous movement and weight bearing (ie. carrying a toddler against the chest piece), and
  • enough impact resistance to prevent gouges (ie. from toddler attempting to stab my gear with a fork)?

I am trying to achieve a balance of strength to weight by using higher quality materials. Do the materials listed above fit the bill? Or am I better off to spend less money on materials, just go with more layers of S-cloth, and suck it up when its heavy?

Thanks for your input. If you are wanting more specific about the build I am considering this for you can go to my build thread at: Commander Sarah Palmer - Scout variant of the MJOLNIR GEN2

P.S. I have put some time into trying to resolve this question myself, but have not come across any clear data tables listing the various strengths of fiberglass cloths while keeping all other variables stable. All data I have collected is directly related to the marine and automotive industry and does not exactly match the use and difficulties expected for cosplay armor. This is the information I have used to deduce that one layer of 7 oz. carbon-kevlar should have enough relative strength to 20 oz. e-glass, but still would like some confirmation.
 
GeekGuardianDee said:
I wanted to pick the brains of the more experienced makers here, hopefully this comes across your feed. I am looking for confirmation of the construction materials I am planning on using for my build. Here is my current plan:


The plan is to use 1-2 layers of hardening resin on the pepakura skeleton, 1 layer of fiberglass on the inside,1 layer of Rondo (50%/50% Resin & Bondo slush) to smooth the inside, and Bondo on the outside for smoothing / sculpting.

Will these materials provide;
  • enough tensile strength to withstand pulling at connection points during removal and strenuous movement (ie. jumping, running, posing, etc.), and
  • enough compression strength to withstand strenuous movement and weight bearing (ie. carrying a toddler against the chest piece), and
  • enough impact resistance to prevent gouges (ie. from toddler attempting to stab my gear with a fork)?

I am trying to achieve a balance of strength to weight by using higher quality materials. Do the materials listed above fit the bill? Or am I better off to spend less money on materials, just go with more layers of S-cloth, and suck it up when its heavy?
Click to expand...

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to the numbers, but I do believe rondo on the inside would not be such a great idea. If you are using the rondo to smooth out the interior it will work, but it adds weight and isn't nearly as strong as some other products out there. If you must have the interior smooth I would suggest using an urethane resin to get the job done. You can then have a smooth interior and it will give the part more strength.
 
I'm working on my MK VI armor, and its going pretty well so far. The only thing I'm worried about the most is the resining, my mom said that I don't need a mask if I do it all outside. Anyways, I would like to know what I'm going to need exactly, oh and is Body filler NECIESSARY? I'm not on a tight budget, but I don't want to spend alot of $$$ if its not neciessary.....
 
Aerdan said:
I'm working on my MK VI armor, and its going pretty well so far. The only thing I'm worried about the most is the resining, my mom said that I don't need a mask if I do it all outside. Anyways, I would like to know what I'm going to need exactly, oh and is Body filler NECIESSARY? I'm not on a tight budget, but I don't want to spend alot of $$$ if its not neciessary.....
Click to expand...

You will still need a respirator even when your working outside. Bodyfiller isnt necessary, but it will make your suit look better.
 
Aerdan said:
I'm working on my MK VI armor, and its going pretty well so far. The only thing I'm worried about the most is the resining, my mom said that I don't need a mask if I do it all outside. Anyways, I would like to know what I'm going to need exactly, oh and is Body filler NECIESSARY? I'm not on a tight budget, but I don't want to spend alot of $$$ if its not neciessary.....
Click to expand...

Get a respirator - if you don't buy anything else for your build and walk out into the streets tomorrow without painting or smoothing it, buy a respirator. You simply cannot cheapskate your own personal health, trust me on this. Even in well-ventilated areas, resin fumes will make you dizzy, make you ill, and eventually, cause life-long complications to your health if inhaled for longer durations.

Don't risk your health on a few dollars - go and buy a decent, vapour-rated chemical respirator. Your lungs will thank you for it.

As for bondo: yes, strictly speaking you can go without it. If you're throwing something together for an event, like Halloween, then by all means, skip the bondo. However, your armour will benefit far more from a decent coat of something to smooth those hard edges over and make the set look better - if you're going to do something, might as well go all the way.

Good luck with your build, Spartan.
 
Arcanine said:
Get a respirator - if you don't buy anything else for your build and walk out into the streets tomorrow without painting or smoothing it, buy a respirator. You simply cannot cheapskate your own personal health, trust me on this. Even in well-ventilated areas, resin fumes will make you dizzy, make you ill, and eventually, cause life-long complications to your health if inhaled for longer durations.

Don't risk your health on a few dollars - go and buy a decent, vapour-rated chemical respirator. Your lungs will thank you for it.

As for bondo: yes, strictly speaking you can go without it. If you're throwing something together for an event, like Halloween, then by all means, skip the bondo. However, your armour will benefit far more from a decent coat of something to smooth those hard edges over and make the set look better - if you're going to do something, might as well go all the way.

Good luck with your build, Spartan.
Click to expand...
thanks! Yeah I'll get a respirator. What resin brand and fiberglass should I get? I was going to do bondo but I didn't know ifit was necessary.
 
Aerdan said:
thanks! Yeah I'll get a respirator. What resin brand and fiberglass should I get? I was going to do bondo but I didn't know ifit was necessary.
Click to expand...

Your fibreglass brands will differ by location, so I can't really advise you, I'm afraid.
 
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