"Help!" for: Foam

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Hobbyist said:
Hello everyone, just general question, usually I don't see templates for helmets. All the other parts sure, even the Foam BETA portion of the 4Shared doesn't have helmet templates. Are helmets just usually done via card stock and then the rest via foam?

My wife and I have been at work out our first builds and it's been really cool seeing it starting to come together:

View attachment 826

but we've been noticing a lot of spots where the gluing wasn't as pristine as we'd like, so my question is when you plastidip does all of that appear as a "ridge" or does it generally cover it up?

My apologies in advance if I retreading ground, I was reading through responses and may have missed them.
Click to expand...
Helmets CAN be done with foam. I am not aware of any templates that are out there for foam helmets. People just normally end up modifying the templates themselves to work with foam. The helmets that I have seen made out of foam are Recon, ODST, MKVI and Gungnir, so it can be done. :)
 
Which helmet are you trying to create?

As the others have stated, foam templates for helmets are few and far between. I have the H4 Master Chief (Mk 7), Mk 6, and the Mk 5 helmet templates that I could share if you needed. It is very possible to create a foam helmet with excellent detail, but will certainly require a lot of effort. Also, I noticed when I built mine, it helped to reinforce the inside a bit. I used a metal coat hanger for mine initially, and have since purchased a piece of aluminum stock to replace it.

SAM_1129_zps5ed15e23.jpg

Anyways, finding a foam file does not mean that you should follow its templates to a "T". As I am sure you have found with the other parts, there seems to be extra and unnecessary cuts or pieces, missing pieces, and/or sections that should be coupled together. I use all of my foam templates I acquire as a starting point, and refine them as I progress with my build.

Also, you mentioned about the glued seams. I am going to assume you are using hot glue. I would use the barrel of the tip (not the tip itself), and run that along your seam to reduce the glue ridge. Once you have done that, you can take a wetted finger and run that along the glue. This will smooth it out and keep it clear in appearance. Another trick is to take a heat gun and lightly go over the area until the glue starts melting and use the wetted finger trick there. Using the heat gun has the advantage of being able to get to the more difficult places, but the con is that you loose a bit of control over the dispersion of heat (the glue gun only heats the surface, the heat gun's heat radiates into the foam), so you will need to make sure it does not start separating your seams.

If you would like any of those helmet files, let me know via PM
 
EVAkura said:
Which helmet are you trying to create?

As the others have stated, foam templates for helmets are few and far between. I have the H4 Master Chief (Mk 7), Mk 6, and the Mk 5 helmet templates that I could share if you needed. It is very possible to create a foam helmet with excellent detail, but will certainly require a lot of effort. Also, I noticed when I built mine, it helped to reinforce the inside a bit. I used a metal coat hanger for mine initially, and have since purchased a piece of aluminum stock to replace it.

SAM_1129_zps5ed15e23.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow, that looks amazing! I'll definitely PM you for a couple of those files! Thanks :)


EVAkura said:
Also, you mentioned about the glued seams. I am going to assume you are using hot glue. I would use the barrel of the tip (not the tip itself), and run that along your seam to reduce the glue ridge. Once you have done that, you can take a wetted finger and run that along the glue. This will smooth it out and keep it clear in appearance.
Click to expand...

I'll definitely try that, I tried the heat gun and ended up warping a couple of pieces and even burning foam from leaving it at a spot a bit too long, but never tried the barrel trick. Thanks again :)
 
For the edges of foam, when layering, how can I fix this?

eba9ada9.jpg


The seams seem to just be very prominent, and that space is really ugly. Any suggestions?
 
A bit of rubber/silicone caulk or glue might do the trick to fill in those gaps like bondo does for fiberglass. Just be sure that whatever you go with, test it on a scrap piece first to make sure there aren't any bad chemical reactions or warping.
 
Zaff said:
A bit of rubber/silicone caulk or glue might do the trick to fill in those gaps like bondo does for fiberglass. Just be sure that whatever you go with, test it on a scrap piece first to make sure there aren't any bad chemical reactions or warping.
Click to expand...

Alright, thanks!
 
So I've taken a good look through the thread and still have some unanswered question(s).

I've decided to do my first build out of foam because it seems to be less labour intensive, and a lot of the concepts of pep are very different from work I've done in the past (mostly with wood, some metal).

My big question is the gluing agent used. I've seen that a lot of builders tend to go with hot glue. I'm hesitant to go with hot glue because of the mentioned possibility of the glue melting when exposed to high temperatures. My first question is how hot would it need to get for the hot glue to melt (or at least become unstable enough to cause warping in the glued seams)?

Second, what other types of gluing agents have people tried? I found this
tutorial and he uses Barge. Does anyone have any experience using this compared to hot glue? Are there any other good bonding agents anyone would recommend?

Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ODSTDoc said:
So I've taken a good look through the thread and still have some unanswered question(s).



My big question is the gluing agent used. I've seen that a lot of builders tend to go with hot glue. I'm hesitant to go with hot glue because of the mentioned possibility of the glue melting when exposed to high temperatures. My first question is how hot would it need to get for the hot glue to melt (or at least become unstable enough to cause warping in the glued seams)?

Thanks
Click to expand...


From what I have experienced with one of my thigh plates for my ODST I left it out in direct sunlight for about well a whole day while i was at work and one seam came undone. I used high temp hot glue and it was at least 90+ degrees out side that day. Now the glue claims to be high temp but it will melt in a low temp hotglue gun so I'm not sure what that says about it.

Hope this helps!
 
Hobbyist said:
Hello everyone, just general question, usually I don't see templates for helmets. All the other parts sure, even the Foam BETA portion of the 4Shared doesn't have helmet templates. Are helmets just usually done via card stock and then the rest via foam?

My wife and I have been at work out our first builds and it's been really cool seeing it starting to come together:

View attachment 826

but we've been noticing a lot of spots where the gluing wasn't as pristine as we'd like, so my question is when you plastidip does all of that appear as a "ridge" or does it generally cover it up?

My apologies in advance if I retreading ground, I was reading through responses and may have missed them.
Click to expand...

I made my own odst helmet by foam. It 's not very easy like pep, but ít' exciting! :)
 
Alright everyone, Made my helmet (didn't read ahead and didn't get the visor in time, so that'll be something to learn for the next time around). So how do you attach/install it? I figure I buy a motorcycle visor, how do you attach it to the inside of the foam? Thanks!
 
ODSTDoc said:
My big question is the gluing agent used. I've seen that a lot of builders tend to go with hot glue. I'm hesitant to go with hot glue because of the mentioned possibility of the glue melting when exposed to high temperatures. My first question is how hot would it need to get for the hot glue to melt (or at least become unstable enough to cause warping in the glued seams)? Second, what other types of gluing agents have people tried? I found this
tutorial and he uses Barge. Does anyone have any experience using this compared to hot glue? Are there any other good bonding agents anyone would recommend?
Click to expand...

I dont use hotglue for my armors. I used contact glue instead. it smells bad but at least i wont get burned, its waterproof and wont undone on hot temperature. i dont know what brand you have in your country but the glue i used is called Dunlop CA Contact Glue.

Hobbyist said:
Alright everyone, Made my helmet (didn't read ahead and didn't get the visor in time, so that'll be something to learn for the next time around). So how do you attach/install it? I figure I buy a motorcycle visor, how do you attach it to the inside of the foam? Thanks!
Click to expand...
just buy an a4 plastic sheet at craft store / stationary shop , cut to shape and then wrap it with car window tint film.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's a great tip actually, never thought about using plastic sheeting but how do you install it? You can't just glue it in can you? I plan to buy an actual motorcycle visor but search isn't really pointing me to where to go to find out how to install into the helmet. Help?
 
Hobbyist said:
That's a great tip actually, never thought about using plastic sheeting but how do you install it? You can't just glue it in can you? I plan to buy an actual motorcycle visor but search isn't really pointing me to where to go to find out how to install into the helmet. Help?
Click to expand...

There have been several different methods used and suggested, ranging from simply gluing it in to setting bolts thread-out into the helmet, drilling holes in the visor to slide it onto the bolts, and then fastening it down with nuts. Other methods include snaps, velcro, or building a lip or ridge around the opening to slip/squeeze the visor into (similar to how visors are typically put into paintball masks).

Basically it comes down to what works best for you (what you're comfortable working with), what's available to you, and the limits of your imagination (it's quite possible you may come up with a method nobody else had thought of).
 
Ah, got it. Alright time to experiment. :D

Another one for the wonderful gurus of The 405th, after PlastiDipping and painting a test helmet, some of the hot glued seams began to pull apart. Not all of them, not even half of them, but a few. Is there a reason for this? I've heard of it happening to some here and there, did I not wait long enough between PlastiDips (I waited 30 minutes, as recommended on the can before doing another coat), did I put too much paint? It didn't split at all after PlastiDip but it was only after the spray paint.

Just wondering. Thanks!
 
Hey fellow noob,
So, after doing a bunch of research and scouring the forum before starting my foam build, I noticed a common build focus point that was never really addressed in full detail by the more experienced personnel; How does one secure the completed pieces to themselves, or their undersuits, and how well/long does that hold up while walking around conventions, or venues like cons? is velcro an option for you guys? or does the three prong buckle with adjustable straps work? Especially for the forearms and lower legs. I'd like to find this information out before I start building to avoid having to go back to a piece to add more materials after building the whole piece.
Thanks in advance guys!
 
xRez said:
Hey fellow noob,
So, after doing a bunch of research and scouring the forum before starting my foam build, I noticed a common build focus point that was never really addressed in full detail by the more experienced personnel; How does one secure the completed pieces to themselves, or their undersuits, and how well/long does that hold up while walking around conventions, or venues like cons? is velcro an option for you guys? or does the three prong buckle with adjustable straps work? Especially for the forearms and lower legs. I'd like to find this information out before I start building to avoid having to go back to a piece to add more materials after building the whole piece.
Thanks in advance guys!
Click to expand...

I do believe the answers (or at least discussions) you may be looking for would be under the Help for armor mounting/costume assembling thread, which focuses on how to put it all together, and keep it from falling down around your ankles as soon as you stand up (Master Chief: Boxers, or briefs?) and to help with tips on maintaining mobility while in full gear with proper placement of joints, breaks, etc.
 
I have particularly fun question.

So you go with the foam route, and you put down a base layer of PVA followed by 6-10 layers of Polyurethane, sanding between layers.
So after you let everything cure for a few days you move on...

Well out comes some fiberglass resin.
Let's consider for a second that you actually want to dissolve the foam.

After dissolving the foam, (hopefully) the resin has filled in where the foam previously occupied and the polyurethane is still intact, and then you finish everything up by slushing rondo around.

The result ends up (hopefully) being a hardened set of armor that still has all of its details. We aren't worried about it being light, we aren't worried about it being flexible, we want to be able to jump in the air and land on our side without the armor bursting from its seams.
But at the same time, we just made some armor that didn't require us to painstakingly cut and score all the pepakura lines and hot glu tiny flaps on paper together while trying not to burn yourself in the process.... right?

1) I understand resin will eat foam, but by how much? Will it be fully dissolved by the resin assuming you apply enough or could some of the foam form weak pockets between the hard layers on either side of it?

2) Would the resin dissolve the PVA or polyurethane?

3) What is the likelyhood of the Polyurethane warping as the foam gets dissolved before the resin has finished filling in?


I would personally like some armor that can withstand some abuse, and since I haven't made any yet, I don't know what kind of abuse it could possibly withstand.
Perhaps adding in a metal frame on the inner side of the foam would be best, I'm not sure.

Who doesn't want their butt-plate to withstand the abuse of plopping down on it?
 
WandererTJ said:
I have particularly fun question.

So you go with the foam route, and you put down a base layer of PVA followed by 6-10 layers of Polyurethane, sanding between layers.
So after you let everything cure for a few days you move on...

Well out comes some fiberglass resin.
Let's consider for a second that you actually want to dissolve the foam.

After dissolving the foam, (hopefully) the resin has filled in where the foam previously occupied and the polyurethane is still intact, and then you finish everything up by slushing rondo around.

The result ends up (hopefully) being a hardened set of armor that still has all of its details. We aren't worried about it being light, we aren't worried about it being flexible, we want to be able to jump in the air and land on our side without the armor bursting from its seams.
But at the same time, we just made some armor that didn't require us to painstakingly cut and score all the pepakura lines and hot glu tiny flaps on paper together while trying not to burn yourself in the process.... right?

1) I understand resin will eat foam, but by how much? Will it be fully dissolved by the resin assuming you apply enough or could some of the foam form weak pockets between the hard layers on either side of it?

2) Would the resin dissolve the PVA or polyurethane?

3) What is the likelyhood of the Polyurethane warping as the foam gets dissolved before the resin has finished filling in?


I would personally like some armor that can withstand some abuse, and since I haven't made any yet, I don't know what kind of abuse it could possibly withstand.
Perhaps adding in a metal frame on the inner side of the foam would be best, I'm not sure.

Who doesn't want their butt-plate to withstand the abuse of plopping down on it?
Click to expand...
I have a gauntlet lying about I can test this on.
 
WandererTJ said:
I have particularly fun question.

So you go with the foam route, and you put down a base layer of PVA followed by 6-10 layers of Polyurethane, sanding between layers.
So after you let everything cure for a few days you move on...

Well out comes some fiberglass resin.
Let's consider for a second that you actually want to dissolve the foam.

After dissolving the foam, (hopefully) the resin has filled in where the foam previously occupied and the polyurethane is still intact, and then you finish everything up by slushing rondo around.

The result ends up (hopefully) being a hardened set of armor that still has all of its details. We aren't worried about it being light, we aren't worried about it being flexible, we want to be able to jump in the air and land on our side without the armor bursting from its seams.
But at the same time, we just made some armor that didn't require us to painstakingly cut and score all the pepakura lines and hot glu tiny flaps on paper together while trying not to burn yourself in the process.... right?

1) I understand resin will eat foam, but by how much? Will it be fully dissolved by the resin assuming you apply enough or could some of the foam form weak pockets between the hard layers on either side of it?

2) Would the resin dissolve the PVA or polyurethane?

3) What is the likelyhood of the Polyurethane warping as the foam gets dissolved before the resin has finished filling in?


I would personally like some armor that can withstand some abuse, and since I haven't made any yet, I don't know what kind of abuse it could possibly withstand.
Perhaps adding in a metal frame on the inner side of the foam would be best, I'm not sure.

Who doesn't want their butt-plate to withstand the abuse of plopping down on it?
Click to expand...

Even though I have not tried your particular hypothesized method, I can give you a very good idea what will happen - through similar experiences, research, and tests.

Yes, the resin would melt the polystyrene foam, but would do so very unevenly. The goopy mess that was the polystyrene would most likely never fully "cure" if it is not allowed oxygen to dissolve the petroleum residue left behind as a by-product from the chemical reaction. The resin (regardless of which type of commonly used thermoset: epoxy/polyurethane/polyester) will not "eat" the PVA or the polyurethane that was applied, however, it may reconstitute the PVA and would have a high likelihood of warping the project due to the curing temperature reaching close to or above 392 F.

Your theory is good, but I believe you would have too much working against you as far as chemical reactions, curing temperatures, and byproduct.
 
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