405th Logo Update

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

As with so many other things within this community, we are bringing a fresh approach to the look of the core logo.

Logo History

Now... I won't claim to know the entire history of the community's identity, but this is one of the earliest versions of the logo I could find from around August of 2007.

Which eventually appeared on the website around Oct of 2007.

I am not sure exactly when the current logo was first created (roughly ~2008) but Adam shared some of the very earliest versions of it with me:

This triskelion-styled design with three hexagons and the (Halo) ring eventually gave way to our current logo:

Updated Logo

In approaching the new logo, we hired Ever and Oak to help us. Douglas is a friend (and long time RPFer) and understands these type of communities, where a typical design company probably wouldn't truly get the nature of what we do. In talking with him I told him that I did not want a NEW logo as much as I wanted a new take on the existing logo as so many within the community identify with it. I asked him to keep the core elements of the logo:

The ring - representing Earth.
The three stars - representing the core values of our community: honor, armor and unity
The three hexagons - represent you, the building blocks of our community, who hold our values at your core
The eagle - which has long represented a fighting force, most notably in history, the Roman Legion, but more currently, the US Marine Corps
The wreath - from the UN and UEG insignia, a symbol of the peace the UNSC are striving toward

I also asked that Douglas give us a design that didn't exactly mimic any specific Halo design, but had a feel that would fit into the Halo universe. I also asked him to limit the color palette to two, subdued colors (in addition to black and white) and make the logo something that we could easily break down into more simple forms for various uses. For anyone who knows anything about design, it is much harder to recreate something than to create something from scratch and my list of needs was no small task.

With that being said, Douglas brought back to me a stunning update to our logo that addressed EVERY concern I had and did so in a fantastic way!

I hate to start on a bad note, but before you scroll further (stop scrolling... stop!), PLEASE DO NOT USE THE NEW LOGO FOR ANY IMAGERY AT THIS TIME! Over the next few days, we will be setting up new logo usage guidelines and providing high-resolution artwork for approved usage. Again, please do not use this logo in part or whole at this point!

Here is our new full logo for the 405th Division:

Here is a horizontal variation:

And very importantly, the logo can be broken down into smaller components... such as ranks:

... or it could also be used to represent the progression that so many of us make from small and simply things to complex and difficult things:

And here is just an example of me playing around in Photoshop...

No matter how you look at it, this is a strong update to the community's identity, paying homage to what has come before, while giving us something more versatile and usable for what is ahead!

Here is a chance to see the evolution of the community identity, side by side:

I know I said it before, but I want to remind you again - DON'T SKIP THIS!
While I am confident you are excited about the new logo, PLEASE DO NOT USE IT FOR ANY IMAGERY AT THIS TIME! Over the next few days, we will be setting up new logo usage guidelines and providing high-resolution artwork for approved usage. Again, please do not use this logo in part or whole at this point!

So, where do we go from here? As we continue to update the site and social media venues, we will be adding in the new logo (as well as offering swag with the new logo). We will also be setting new guidelines so you too can use the logo in support of your community!

Dagger06 · Jul 16, 2014

I would also suggest making it so it isn't a vote for the highest (e.g. One person a month that gets voted as THE legendary member for the month) but perhaps something where anyone with over X amount of member support warrant recognition. A little bit more inclusive.

You're not picking who's the best of a group, you're recognizing members who the community feels deserve recognition, if that makes sense. =)

GeekGuardianDee · Jul 16, 2014

Trooper0621 said:
I would also suggest making it so it isn't a vote for the highest (e.g. One person a month that gets voted as THE legendary member for the month) but perhaps something where anyone with over X amount of member support warrant recognition. A little bit more inclusive.

You're not picking who's the best of a group, you're recognizing members who the community feels deserve recognition, if that makes sense. =)

So an open poll that stays up forever and when a person gets *500* votes they get legendary (and then removed from the poll)?

Substitute whatever number works for the 500, I don't know how many actual active member accounts we have right now.

Bobby Boucher · Jul 16, 2014

GeekGuardianDee said:
Substitute whatever number works for the 500, I don't know how many actual active member accounts we have right now.

I think the word is getting out that the 405th is getting a refresh with new management. Older faces should be coming back, along with some new people. 500 votes may be a lot now but down the road it could be no big deal.

This sounds a lot like a different forum I'm in. A person is voted member of the month and they get special recognition and stuff. But there is also a member of the year vote, for "extra"outstanding achievement, that may be too much here. But this idea definitely works.

23Magnum · Jul 16, 2014

How about this...

Nominate members during the current month for the next month's voting with the new Legendary Member(LM) announced at the end of the month. No limitations on numerous nominations as there are bound to be months with multiple eligible members and other months with possibly none. Nominations would need to start fresh each month and a limit of say 2-3 eligible members per month.

This way there is a new LM each month and an arbitrary number doesn't NEED to be met. However, we could put a cap on the number of votes needed so that if a choice is obvious we won't wait to make it official.

How's that sound?

Demogorgon · Jul 16, 2014

Just out of curiosity, what is the font being used for the logotype?

Also, when the time comes to release the artwork and we are allowed to use the logo, will you release a Vector format as well (Adobe Illustrator file, EPS file, etc)?

Lastly, will the color scheme of the site, the blue for the headers and such, be changed to the new teal color to wrap up the re-branding of the 405th?

foxleader · Jul 16, 2014

oh this is going to get hard pretty soon. ranks would effect members who lets say can't post pic every often.

RobotChicken · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
I am down with Legendary but if it is to be a rank, shouldn't it just be "Legend"?

Does the name of the forum need to be the same as the name of the rank? To me, they're separate entities.

WandererTJ · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
I can't see a reason why you couldn't do either or both.

Well if I or someone else were to put the logo on their cod piece and do this:

I'm not sure how I would feel about it....

RobotChicken · Jul 16, 2014

Somebody just has to put that animated picture to the music of "Knights of the Round Table" by Monty Python.....(that's what it reminds me of)

ColFork85 · Jul 16, 2014

The only thing I'm really going to say about ranks, and how they're attained, is I don't want to see this place turn into the 501st. When you start putting in certain standards, it can both turn people into snobs, or sometimes just come off as snobbish from a casual glance. We need to make sure that anyone can come here and fully expect that we are first and foremost a community. We provide encouragement, but also CONSTRUCTIVE criticism(meaning when we critique a new members build, we word it in a way that obviously communicates an attempt to help, and not to be rude). We want everyone to strive to do their best, but if your best is a basic low def Halo: CE build, that's great. Maybe not Legendary, but still, you did your best, now it's time to up the bar. If I had used(and I did for a while) the Legendary builds as a bar for making my first armor, I wouldn't have a full set now, and wouldn't be working on improvements to it.

Also, there's no shame if some of your parts were commissioned, I have some parts I didn't build myself, but I still strapped, painted and made to be able to get on and off myself.

I like the new logo, and I'm anxious to get more involved, especially with the Midwestern Division.

WandererTJ · Jul 16, 2014

Zaff said:
Having browsed WandererTJ's suggestions on how ranks could be earned, I have to argue against one of the conditions: attending conventions. I live in a small town in upstate NY hours away from any known convention (even NYC is about a 3-4 hour drive) and being currently unemployed, it's down to selective scrapping and redneck ingenuity to get anywhere on any project I have in mind (the most expensive purchase I've made so far is $7 for 150 sheets of cardstock at Walmart), so dropping $500+ on a convention (travel, hotel, misc. costs, etc.) is far outside my budget. Hardly seems fair that someone can't move up in the ranks simply because they can't afford to "buy" their way in. Same goes for making a valuable contribution to the community. For those with the right programs and ability to do 3D models, that's a shoe-in. For people like me the best I can contribute is unfolding the occasional model made by someone else, or essentially "directing traffic" when encountering newer members who are posting questions that are better suited for the various "help" threads. Sure, unfolding has its value (can't print what hasn't been unfolded) but would that alone be enough to qualify as making a contribution? Helping new members find their way around, again that has its value but personally I'd file that more under "common courtesy and proper forum etiquette." In other words, something that, personally, I would say is only to be expected from any member of the community and thus wouldn't truly be "outstanding" behavior. Just something to take into consideration.

Well, to be honest, I wanted to give options, especially for the top tiers. I have never attended a convention myself, but I thought it could be an option.
I didn't just simply select all options that would automatically make me into a "Veteran".

I actually didn't make it really hard to be an Officer, especially if you only need to do 3 of the items, and I think both you and I qualify under it in terms of # of years, posts, and being helpful as well as contributing.

What I was trying to promote the most with the list and I hope that it is obvious, is simply that we should make an effort to be part of a community and being helpful.
Is it obvious that our goal should be to be nice and helpful? Well, not if you're someone from facepunch, where everyone seems to have their panties in a bunch. If you try to ask for information over there, you are flamed and trolled until you are left in the corner trying to cry yourself to sleep.

And I never listed how much weight of "value" that you need to contribute. Sure, providing personally made 3D HD models would probably weigh the most, but providing someone who needs an unfold of a file helps someone with their build as well.
I've made lots of reference pics, it's free to do (minus your electricity and internet bill) but it does take time and I've seen a few threads where someone directly showed one of my images they used for reference, and knowing that I helped their build just really feels good. No matter what you do here on the 405th, I would just hope that anyone that comes here, and essentially leeches information and files we give them will one day return the favor to some degree.

Excuse my language, but I just don't want to see the "Me me me **** you me me me" attitude. A community can't live if we are all like that.

Now, obviously my list isn't perfect and it could be tweaked or added to.

Thanks for critiquing it btw. Only through doing so can it be improved upon.

WandererTJ · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
I do like a monthly nomination for a member being added to the rank of Legendary members!

I nominate:
Hugh Holder
and
Ben Streeper

Master Builder · Jul 16, 2014

Having browsed WandererTJ's suggestions on how ranks could be earned, I have to argue against one of the conditions: attending conventions. I live in a small town in upstate NY hours away from any known convention (even NYC is about a 3-4 hour drive) and being currently unemployed, it's down to selective scrapping and redneck ingenuity to get anywhere on any project I have in mind (the most expensive purchase I've made so far is $7 for 150 sheets of cardstock at Walmart), so dropping $500+ on a convention (travel, hotel, misc. costs, etc.) is far outside my budget. Hardly seems fair that someone can't move up in the ranks simply because they can't afford to "buy" their way in. Same goes for making a valuable contribution to the community. For those with the right programs and ability to do 3D models, that's a shoe-in. For people like me the best I can contribute is unfolding the occasional model made by someone else, or essentially "directing traffic" when encountering newer members who are posting questions that are better suited for the various "help" threads. Sure, unfolding has its value (can't print what hasn't been unfolded) but would that alone be enough to qualify as making a contribution? Helping new members find their way around, again that has its value but personally I'd file that more under "common courtesy and proper forum etiquette." In other words, something that, personally, I would say is only to be expected from any member of the community and thus wouldn't truly be "outstanding" behavior. Just something to take into consideration.

I agree with you as well.

I really really want to go to a convention but don't think I will be able to in the next few years to come, simply because of where I live and how much it would cost.

Also I know how long and repetitive it is to teach newcomers, and I really respect the people who do, and I think there should be something special for them.

A lack of programs can not be an excuse for not learning a new talent. There are many free modeling programs out there, and there are student licences that you could get as well for the more professional/high end programs. It's not so much about the program you are using, it's about how much you are willing to learn 3d modeling, it takes a lot of time and dedication.

Zaff · Jul 16, 2014

WandererTJ said:
.What I was trying to promote the most with the list and I hope that it is obvious, is simply that we should make an effort to be part of a community and being helpful.

That is the main issue I was concerned with. Putting certain qualifications on ranking up can make some members feel like they must not be very helpful, or worse yet, that they aren't part of the community, just a lurker/observer left to drift along the outskirts not because they don't want to be a part of the "inner circle," but simply because they don't have the means to (or in the case of "Contributing," have come to believe that they don't have the means). Things like attending conventions to rep the 405th or being known for being helpful or making contributions certainly deserve recognition, but if we do a ranking system I don't feel it's fair to base it around things that some members simply cannot do for reasons beyond their control. We don't want anyone feeling excluded or singled out because of their circumstances.

Master Builder · Jul 16, 2014

What if you had titles to go along with ranks to better describe members skills or abilities to contribute? You could have titles like "weapons expert","master painter","unfolder","modeler","helper" etc.

Sorry I'm not good with words at all. I don't think that reads how I meant it too.

foxleader · Jul 16, 2014

oh man ranking system at a con is going to drive people mad because if we use the Spartan/marine background file's the rank wouldn't make much sense.

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

Master Builder said:
What if you had titles to go along with ranks to better describe members skills or abilities to contribute? You could have titles like "weapons expert","master painter","unfolder","modeler","helper" etc.

Sorry I'm not good with words at all. I don't think that reads how I meant it too.

That is a tough one because 1) it is hard to keep up with and 2) we have found in the past that people tend to get their feelings hurt by it more easily than you might imagine.

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

foxleader said:
oh man ranking system at a con is going to drive people mad because if we use the Spartan/marine background file's the rank wouldn't make much sense.

We are unlikely to create ranks based on a true military system (private, sgt, etc) because... welll, I have NEVER seen that go well.

Zaff · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
We are unlikely to create ranks based on a true military system (private, sgt, etc) because... welll, I have NEVER seen that go well.

Indeed. For one, most people here have an entire backstory and bio behind the armor they built, including but not limited to name, rank, and serial number. Even though it's ultimately irrelevant, it can be annoying to portray a character who is one rank and be labeled with another, and for those who have a connection to the military often have a specific rank that has significant meaning to them. I remember back in the day when Bungie was first rolling out the Reach ranking system there were a few complaints on the forums from people who wanted to maintain a specific rank because of its significance to them, but didn't want to be stuck with "either lost that rank, or never play again because anything you do will raise it." Beyond that, there always seems to be "that guy" who has to make a big fuss about the inconsistency between member rank and character rank. "You can't call yourself a Lt. Commander, you're only a Warrant Officer," and whatnot. Irritating stuff.

Art Andrews said:
That is a tough one because 1) it is hard to keep up with and 2) we have found in the past that people tend to get their feelings hurt by it more easily than you might imagine.

Nobody likes to be pigeon-holed. And aside from people generally not liking to be labeled (even with a positive intent behind it), as well as the other two issues mentioned, having that label out there sometimes can be irritating because when everyone knows what you do, suddenly you can find yourself flooded with requests and demands and people getting offended if you have to turn them down to keep your sanity or just to have some time to work on your own projects. And unfortunately ,some people can be quite rude in their methods of "requesting" someone's skills. "You're a modeler, that means you make models. So it's your job to make whatever anyone tells you to make." And then there's the people who might not necessarily have an outstanding skill, they can feel left out because they don't have any special designation, and any designation assigned to them loses its meaning because they'll just look at it as a consolation prize.

WandererTJ · Jul 16, 2014

I plan on using the 405th Logo in its entirety when I make my armor, I'm not going to omit items from the Logo regardless of whether or not we do ranks or not. I can add stars or bars below it, like some of the in-game Halo ranks use, but that's about it. I wouldn't mind adding those.

Why would I use an incomplete 405th logo if I'm meant to represent the 405th?
I don't mind having the different icons for use in the forums, but for on a build, I think it's kind've silly.

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