405th Logo Update

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

As with so many other things within this community, we are bringing a fresh approach to the look of the core logo.

Logo History

Now... I won't claim to know the entire history of the community's identity, but this is one of the earliest versions of the logo I could find from around August of 2007.

Which eventually appeared on the website around Oct of 2007.

I am not sure exactly when the current logo was first created (roughly ~2008) but Adam shared some of the very earliest versions of it with me:

This triskelion-styled design with three hexagons and the (Halo) ring eventually gave way to our current logo:

Updated Logo

In approaching the new logo, we hired Ever and Oak to help us. Douglas is a friend (and long time RPFer) and understands these type of communities, where a typical design company probably wouldn't truly get the nature of what we do. In talking with him I told him that I did not want a NEW logo as much as I wanted a new take on the existing logo as so many within the community identify with it. I asked him to keep the core elements of the logo:

The ring - representing Earth.
The three stars - representing the core values of our community: honor, armor and unity
The three hexagons - represent you, the building blocks of our community, who hold our values at your core
The eagle - which has long represented a fighting force, most notably in history, the Roman Legion, but more currently, the US Marine Corps
The wreath - from the UN and UEG insignia, a symbol of the peace the UNSC are striving toward

I also asked that Douglas give us a design that didn't exactly mimic any specific Halo design, but had a feel that would fit into the Halo universe. I also asked him to limit the color palette to two, subdued colors (in addition to black and white) and make the logo something that we could easily break down into more simple forms for various uses. For anyone who knows anything about design, it is much harder to recreate something than to create something from scratch and my list of needs was no small task.

With that being said, Douglas brought back to me a stunning update to our logo that addressed EVERY concern I had and did so in a fantastic way!

I hate to start on a bad note, but before you scroll further (stop scrolling... stop!), PLEASE DO NOT USE THE NEW LOGO FOR ANY IMAGERY AT THIS TIME! Over the next few days, we will be setting up new logo usage guidelines and providing high-resolution artwork for approved usage. Again, please do not use this logo in part or whole at this point!

Here is our new full logo for the 405th Division:

Here is a horizontal variation:

And very importantly, the logo can be broken down into smaller components... such as ranks:

... or it could also be used to represent the progression that so many of us make from small and simply things to complex and difficult things:

And here is just an example of me playing around in Photoshop...

No matter how you look at it, this is a strong update to the community's identity, paying homage to what has come before, while giving us something more versatile and usable for what is ahead!

Here is a chance to see the evolution of the community identity, side by side:

I know I said it before, but I want to remind you again - DON'T SKIP THIS!
While I am confident you are excited about the new logo, PLEASE DO NOT USE IT FOR ANY IMAGERY AT THIS TIME! Over the next few days, we will be setting up new logo usage guidelines and providing high-resolution artwork for approved usage. Again, please do not use this logo in part or whole at this point!

So, where do we go from here? As we continue to update the site and social media venues, we will be adding in the new logo (as well as offering swag with the new logo). We will also be setting new guidelines so you too can use the logo in support of your community!

Demogorgon · Jul 16, 2014

I love the new logo, it definitely feels more modern.

I really like the idea of a ranking system. It will give builders and community members something to strive for. The hardest part is just balancing requirements for ranks.

If ranks are decided to not be implemented, then maybe create a badge system. Again just creating some sort of incentive program for community members.

One thing I've had on my mind is renaming the Elite section the Legendary section. Just a personal preference, seeing as the hardest difficulty in Halo is Legendary and would tie in the Halo theme even more. When I first saw "Elite Showcase" I thought that's where the Sangheili builds were xD. Just a thought haha.

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

Demogorgon said:
One thing I've had on my mind is renaming the Elite section the Legendary section. Just a personal preference, seeing as the hardest difficulty in Halo is Legendary and would tie in the Halo theme even more. When I first saw "Elite Showcase" I thought that's where the Sangheili builds were xD. Just a thought haha.

I am in agreement regarding the word "Elite." For one, in the Halo universe those are the bad guys. For two, no matter what kind of positive spin you try to put on it, elite will always be thought of in terms of elitism which has negative connotations and which tends to create hurt feelings.

I like Legendary. I also like Titan and Centruion (although the 501st uses Centurion for their elite builds). Is there a word like one of these that is used in the Halo universe?

Bobby Boucher · Jul 16, 2014

I'm totally digging the new logo! I'm also excited for a ranks idea, I loved the ranks system in Reach. I've always wanted to have something like this!

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

mOWWck said:
I loved the ranks system in Reach.

Oh? Do we have pics?!? I'd love to know more about that.

Zero Prime · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
Oh? Do we have pics?!? I'd love to know more about that.

In Halo: Reach the upper ranks were ( in ascending order)

Field Marshal
Hero
Legend
Mythic
Noble
Eclipse
Nova
Forerunner
Reclaimer
Inheritor

Hobbyist · Jul 16, 2014

Trooper0621 said:
Absolutely love it! It fits in perfectly with the data terminals of Halo. Once you have everything finalized, the 405th Pacific reg will have to look into updating our logo to match

I was unaware that there was a specific "area reg". That's cool. It'll be neat to be able to identify around various cons in Northern California, etc.

Art Andrews said:
But, as a member of this site, are we going to ask you NOT to use the logo? Heck no! Just the opposite! We had this logo created FOR YOUR USE!

I'm in the middle of my first build, still in the foam stages and I love the fact that there will a way to pay tribute to the awesome community that I am learning from. It will definitely be added when I get to the painting stages and I absolutely love this concept. Great to hear that official shirts are coming too

23Magnum · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
Now... before you go getting crazy, I want to be absolutely clear that we do not want anyone producing or selling ANY swag with our name or logo on it. But as far as using the logo for your own personal use; once we have the rules in place, absolutely!

@Zaff - I was around when those rules were being penned though I didn't really have a lot of say in the matter. I will say, at the time, I agreed with the intent of what those rules were trying to convey and what Art wrote here was the basic idea even though the actual written rules were worded in a more complicated manner. Again, at the time, we didn't want any former, current, or future problem members or those outside of the forums using the logo to misrepresent the 405th. That, again, was more probable at the time. I think enough time has past that that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Art Andrews said:
I like Legendary...Is there a word like one of these that is used in the Halo universe?

I think you've already found it.

Cadet · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
I am in agreement regarding the word "Elite." For one, in the Halo universe those are the bad guys. For two, no matter what kind of positive spin you try to put on it, elite will always be thought of in terms of elitism which has negative connotations and which tends to create hurt feelings.

I like Legendary. I also like Titan and Centruion (although the 501st uses Centurion for their elite builds). Is there a word like one of these that is used in the Halo universe?

Considering that "Legendary" is the highest official difficulty setting in Halo (Mythic is harder but is more of an unofficial fan challenge) I think Legendary would be a good ft for a Top Tier category.

LongShot X · Jul 16, 2014

<Lurker mode off>

WOW! Just wow! Still loving the changes and activity.

I have one question about the Logo update. Will the update affect the usage of my 2008 version logo already on my armor?

Kevin

Zaff · Jul 16, 2014

Having browsed WandererTJ's suggestions on how ranks could be earned, I have to argue against one of the conditions: attending conventions. I live in a small town in upstate NY hours away from any known convention (even NYC is about a 3-4 hour drive) and being currently unemployed, it's down to selective scrapping and redneck ingenuity to get anywhere on any project I have in mind (the most expensive purchase I've made so far is $7 for 150 sheets of cardstock at Walmart), so dropping $500+ on a convention (travel, hotel, misc. costs, etc.) is far outside my budget. Hardly seems fair that someone can't move up in the ranks simply because they can't afford to "buy" their way in. Same goes for making a valuable contribution to the community. For those with the right programs and ability to do 3D models, that's a shoe-in. For people like me the best I can contribute is unfolding the occasional model made by someone else, or essentially "directing traffic" when encountering newer members who are posting questions that are better suited for the various "help" threads. Sure, unfolding has its value (can't print what hasn't been unfolded) but would that alone be enough to qualify as making a contribution? Helping new members find their way around, again that has its value but personally I'd file that more under "common courtesy and proper forum etiquette." In other words, something that, personally, I would say is only to be expected from any member of the community and thus wouldn't truly be "outstanding" behavior. Just something to take into consideration.

RobotChicken · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
I am in agreement regarding the word "Elite." For one, in the Halo universe those are the bad guys. For two, no matter what kind of positive spin you try to put on it, elite will always be thought of in terms of elitism which has negative connotations and which tends to create hurt feelings.

Er, so the "Elite" forum isn't a reserved forum for Covenant members...?

I like the term "Legendary" for its ties to the game, and also an apt description for the qualifications needed to achieve a thread in that forum.

Is the logo design work done and we're just waiting on the guidelines before being allowed to use, or are refinements still happening? Be sure to "advertise" where logo download links are located, and please include transparent (alpha channel) background versions.

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

Kevin,

Sorry... get out the sand blaster and strip that armor down. You are no longer allowed.... oh, who am I kidding?!? :lol

No way are we going to try to impose upon you to change what you have on your armor, especially if it was done in a permanent way!

The 2008 logo IS still an official 405th logo and always will be even though it is officially retired and you won't see us using it.

I will say, it sounds to me like you need to start on another set of armor so you can put the new logo on it. It isn't like you can ever have too many sets of MJOLNIR armor!

LongShot-X said:
<Lurker mode off>

WOW! Just wow! Still loving the changes and activity.

I have one question about the Logo update. Will the update affect the usage of my 2008 version logo already on my armor?

Kevin

Dagger06 · Jul 16, 2014

LongShot-X said:
<Lurker mode off>

WOW! Just wow! Still loving the changes and activity.

I have one question about the Logo update. Will the update affect the usage of my 2008 version logo already on my armor?

Kevin

I've seen your armor, Longshot. Pretty sure you have plenty of room to rock both the old and new logo, remind these youngin's how long you've been around.

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

Give us time on this. As I said earlier, the ranks will probably be few in number and far in between and will likely be tied very closely to the club aspect... BUT that doesn't mean we can't also have an awards system for other things!

Zaff said:
Having browsed WandererTJ's suggestions on how ranks could be earned, I have to argue against one of the conditions: attending conventions. I live in a small town in upstate NY hours away from any known convention (even NYC is about a 3-4 hour drive) and being currently unemployed, it's down to selective scrapping and redneck ingenuity to get anywhere on any project I have in mind (the most expensive purchase I've made so far is $7 for 150 sheets of cardstock at Walmart), so dropping $500+ on a convention (travel, hotel, misc. costs, etc.) is far outside my budget. Hardly seems fair that someone can't move up in the ranks simply because they can't afford to "buy" their way in. Same goes for making a valuable contribution to the community. For those with the right programs and ability to do 3D models, that's a shoe-in. For people like me the best I can contribute is unfolding the occasional model made by someone else, or essentially "directing traffic" when encountering newer members who are posting questions that are better suited for the various "help" threads. Sure, unfolding has its value (can't print what hasn't been unfolded) but would that alone be enough to qualify as making a contribution? Helping new members find their way around, again that has its value but personally I'd file that more under "common courtesy and proper forum etiquette." In other words, something that, personally, I would say is only to be expected from any member of the community and thus wouldn't truly be "outstanding" behavior. Just something to take into consideration.

Dagger06 · Jul 16, 2014

Zaff said:
Having browsed WandererTJ's suggestions on how ranks could be earned, I have to argue against one of the conditions: attending conventions. I live in a small town in upstate NY hours away from any known convention (even NYC is about a 3-4 hour drive) and being currently unemployed, it's down to selective scrapping and redneck ingenuity to get anywhere on any project I have in mind (the most expensive purchase I've made so far is $7 for 150 sheets of cardstock at Walmart), so dropping $500+ on a convention (travel, hotel, misc. costs, etc.) is far outside my budget. Hardly seems fair that someone can't move up in the ranks simply because they can't afford to "buy" their way in. Same goes for making a valuable contribution to the community. For those with the right programs and ability to do 3D models, that's a shoe-in. For people like me the best I can contribute is unfolding the occasional model made by someone else, or essentially "directing traffic" when encountering newer members who are posting questions that are better suited for the various "help" threads. Sure, unfolding has its value (can't print what hasn't been unfolded) but would that alone be enough to qualify as making a contribution? Helping new members find their way around, again that has its value but personally I'd file that more under "common courtesy and proper forum etiquette." In other words, something that, personally, I would say is only to be expected from any member of the community and thus wouldn't truly be "outstanding" behavior. Just something to take into consideration.

I agree. One of the nicest, most helpful members of the 405th Pacific is Pony/ACDCRocker has never made it out to a convention and didn't finish his first suit until just last year. To make those members feel like they are any less amazing would be a shame.

PS I love the term "legendary" also.

Ashuraa · Jul 16, 2014

I love the new logo looks.

For ranks... Those get difficult fast.

For refernce I am 2nd in command of a gaming guild in MW:O. It has over 600 members listed. We do have ranks, and they are utilized. The key factor to most of the ranks is on activity level, and responsibility level.
Going from base to top command they go
Cadet: new member to our club.
MW: one who has posted to our site, and is in an active line regiment, and is dropping in game.
LCOM: is a lance commander and responsible for 4 other members in drops in game.
CCOM: is a company commander and is responsible for 4 LCOMs. They also pass info further up the chain.
BCOM is a battalion commander, who has up to 3 CComs under him. They can and do also step in to assist their RCOM when RL take the RCOM away from the community.
RCOM is a regimental commander and they have 3 BCOMS under them.
Then you have the Command Staff. That is those of us who dedicate multiple hours a week into the back door running of the club. We set up tournaments, communicate with other clubs, deal with all internal issues, and run our website, and our teamspeak.

We have people who move up and down the ranks depending on how much work they are willing to put in. If they deam they are unable due to real life, or other things to not be able to assist others so much, they step down. Sometimes Command has to ask if they need that leave of absence.

Now that said, that type of system here would not be a good idea. Some of the options posted such as....

WandererTJ said:
Can I use a faded / battle damaged logo on my armor? I mean, if the rest of the armor looks like it has been through hell and back, it would be odd for the emblem to be *pristine*.

Can I put it on my cod piece?

Doesn't Enlisted and Recruit mean the same thing? When you get recruited you are enlisted, right?
Isn't Enlisted more of a Status than a Rank?
I don't see why we can't just continue using Infantryman.

Okay, how about something like this:

Veteran Status (Must have completed at least 5 of the following):
• 405th Member for 4+ Years,
• Must have completed an "Elite"/"Legendary" Build (Halo Related)
• Must show initiative in the community as a helpful source of information
• Has contributed things that have aided others in their builds (models, files, or some other free service)
• Has attended 3+ Conventions with other members of the 405th, and has posted pictures from the convention here on the forums
• Post Count: 400+ (and 90% of the posts can't just be saying "good job" every time someone posts a picture..........:behave)

Officer (Must have completed at least 3 (maybe 4?) of the following):
• 405th Member for 3+ Years
• Must have completed a Build (Halo Related)
• Must show initiative in the community as a helpful source of information and/or have contributed things that have aided others in their builds
• Has attended 1+ Conventions with other members of the 405th, and has posted pictures from the convention here on the forums
• Post Count: 300+

Enlisted/Infantryman:
• 405th Member for 0.5 Years
• Must show initiative in the community as a helpful source of information
• Must not be a Noob
• Post Count: 150+

Recruit Status:
• 405th Member for 30+ Days
• Has read through Forum Rules (ie. the threads must be marked as read)
• Post Count: 30+

Registered/Verified Member:
• Has registered and joined the 405th

EDIT: Dang. 4 Posts since I started typing this.

This is interesting, but you are quickly putting a lot of limits and rules on how you move up. This could quickly and easily grow till you stagnate.
next question I have on is with the build limits, are instances like my husband and me. We are making an armor suit together. That is one suit at this time. Now, our post counts will be fewer for both of us due to us both adding info, but attempting to not cover all the same info in our builds. Will that one suit count as a build for us both, thus giving us a higher rank, or will it count for only one of us?

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

I am down with Legendary but if it is to be a rank, shouldn't it just be "Legend"?

Dagger06 · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
I am down with Legendary but if it is to be a rank, shouldn't it just be "Legend"?

I think the way most people use it is as an adjective for member.

e.g. Elite member => Legendary member.

As far as membership 'ranks' go, I always felt something simpler was better.

Recruit - Account created
Enlisted Member - Attached to a regiment/club (could create a '3d modeler/forum' type regiment for those people that are online contributors primarily and not costuming and hence wouldn't want to belong to a geograpical club)
Officers - Staff and admins
Legendary Member - Member recognized for outstanding contribution to the 405th. There could be some sort of monthly nomination process for people the community feels deserve recognition for whatever reason (basically, not specific to 'Elite builds" like what we have now.) Instead of coming up with strict guidelines, let the community decide who they want to honor.

Art Andrews · Jul 16, 2014

I do like a monthly nomination for a member being added to the rank of Legendary members!

Trooper0621 said:
I think the way most people use it is as an adjective for member.

e.g. Elite member => Legendary member.

As far as membership 'ranks' go, I always felt something simpler was better.

Recruit - Account created
Enlisted Member - Attached to a regiment/club (could create a '3d modeler/forum' type regiment for those people that are online contributors primarily and not costuming and hence wouldn't want to belong to a geograpical club)
Officers - Staff and admins
Legendary Member - Member recognized for outstanding contribution to the 405th. There could be some sort of monthly nomination process for people the community feels deserve recognition for whatever reason (basically, not specific to 'Elite builds" like what we have now.) Instead of coming up with strict guidelines, let the community decide who they want to honor.

GeekGuardianDee · Jul 16, 2014

Art Andrews said:
I do like a monthly nomination for a member being added to the rank of Legendary members!

I do too!

Maybe have a thread where people can make nominations then at the last week of the month open a poll with the nominees and vote through the highest to Legendary member. Once one gets put through the whole thread is deleted and we start fresh each month.

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