405th Logo Update

Zaff said:

So I go from being a 2-year infantryman to being "busted" down to tier 0 simply because while I do want to build a full suit (several, actually) I haven't actually made any progress in doing so...

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You aren't being busted down because 1) the club didn't exist prior to this... and technically at the moment still doesn't and 2) because you held no real rank before. All that it took to obtain the title you had was 30 days and 30 posts which is no measure of contribution. If I recall, you said you have done considerable work unfolding models for the community. Anyone who posted "That is cool!" 30 times and had an account for 30 days was equal to you by the old system's standards... so did you really hold any rank prior to this? I would say not. A true ranking system hadn't been put in place as much as a system to try to limit spammers and to try to keep newbs from posting all over the board. Your "infantryman" title only equated to "I am not a spammer."

Zaff said:

In other words, feeling like we have to' "buy in" to have any credibility while completely ignoring fundamental yet crucial contributions like modeling, unfolding, or simply being there to give advice, tips, and direction to people with questions. I mean I've pepped four helmets, only one in cardstock, and it hasn't progressed beyond that stage yet as I'm still considering what to do with it (to keep it as is, or modify/customize it). But I've also unfolded several models, subscribed to a handful of the "Help" threads to offer suggestions, tips, and the relevant experience I have, as well as often dropping by the random question threads to help direct people to the information they are looking for. So as far as being a costume builder, yea, I'm still a "rookie," but as far as being a member of the overall community, even though I know that ultimately it's just a "tag" and serves no real purpose, "Tier 0" feels like a slap in the face.

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As I said in the last post, Trooper0621 and Ashuraa brought this up and we have already said we will need to look into a track for supporting members. This isn't about buy-in, but at the same time it IS about creating costumes. Does that require more people than just those doing the building? Yes. Are we going to make an effort to include an acknowledge them? Yes. Is that going to get very tricky, complicated and somewhat arbitrary? Yes it is.

Keep in mind that the Tiers are not structured in such a way as to denote the value of the member to the community. I am likely to ALWAYS be a Tier 0 member. I'd love to think that I would build my own suit, but the truth is, my time is spent making posts like this... so while I will certainly be a member of the club, I doubt that I will ever go further than Tier 0. Instead of being based on value, the Tiers are designed to drive members to strive for the next stage and to want to progress to that next level. We have seen similar models work very well for other clubs and I see no reason why it wouldn't work well here.

Brandon McClain said:

Also as an aside, I would really like to see something like a "wall of fallen heroes" for those members that for whatever reason, may not be active any more, but who were instrumental in the foundations and learning of this community. Members like Darren Campbell (Dogwizard), Tim Winn, Lee Calhoun (LeeKeagan), Charlie Bell (privateer) and so many who worked hard to build this community into what it is today.

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You would never see "fallen heroes" unless it is someone who literally is no longer alive as I feel like that borders (unintentionally) on disrespect.

I would also be careful not to pigeonhole anyone who is currently not active into a group that implies they are never coming back. With that being said, their could easily be recognition for "founding fathers" or "forerunners."

Ashuraa said:

There are then AWARDS/Medals that are awarded that show on our members profiles, and some as tags that show under their name when they post. To gain awards/ medals you have to meet the qualifications for them, and then be recommended for them by your RCOM to Command. Command then approves or disapproves such medals, most of the time we take the RCOM's recommendations and judgement as a full given. When Command accepts, we place the tag on the given MW in the coding for their profile.

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I think Medals and Awards are a VERY good way of limiting the number of Membership Levels. Earlier on, WandererTJ suggested that membership levels be determined by things such as how many events you have attended. I do not like that as a determination of membership level as our focus is on building costumes moreso than how many times you have worn them. However, this is a GREAT idea for a medal! 5 deployment? Get a medal. 25 deployments? Get another. Etc, Etc. The same can be true for those who contribute but don't build. Posted 5 officially approved files? Get a medal. Posted 25? Get a better medal.

Art, I'm gonna have to agree with zaff in the fact that even though some of us don't have a few completed suits under our belts, doesn't necisarilly mean we don't have the level of expertise from years of being on the site and other htings to show for it. For me, it was always time and money that prevented me from finishing my projects (mk VI [cancelled], mkV [cancelled], ODST [haiatus], EVA unit 1 [hiatus], Mk VII [WIP] ) But I have tried my past to pass on my knowledge and experience in the works to help others build something new. Even if its something simple like special stripes for years of service or something similar. I may not have a full finished suit to hold as my badge of honor, but I, as many of us here have, hold a certain pride in being a part of this community, and have been part of it for over 5 years.

Again, sometimes something like a ranking system will no matter what cause some jealousy or what not from other people. I say either keep it very simple, or not have one at all. We aren't the 501st, we don't have an age requirement and we don't usually have official appearances and what not. We are a community dedicated to helping each other grow in the art of costume design. We have to keep that at heart when going through all these changes. Either way I look forward to what you can bring to this community. It has had its low points but I believe we can take this community's potential and turn it into something amazing.

We aren't the 501st. Any completed suit, even a super low def one made of cardboard, is as welcome at events as the hand-sculpted-over-2-years $3000 film quality suit.

We do have semi-official appearances, "semi" only in part because the 405th technically doesn't have any members yet. Appearances are less common precisely because most of our subgroups are honestly still trying to stand themselves up, nevermind coordinate dozens of costumers.

However, at the Pacific we HAVE had appearances. From Machinima to 343i themselves. And often times they want to know who can actually show up in costume. Some of their events ask specifically for higher quality costumes. Sometimes they have other requirements (certain game series, color scheme, etc.)

Don't think of these as 'ranks'. Think of them as logisitical organization tools to help meet the needs of external groups who want to work with us, and nothing to do with how you're valued at the 405th.

Costume construction and community will always be first at the 405th, but showing off those costumes and being involved is still something we'd like to do.

Again, to reiterate, the 'tier' idea that Art is tossing around says nothing about your 'rank' 'veterancy' 'status' 'value' etc. etc. etc. It's mostly an out-of-forum tool.

Guess I can throw in my two cents...

Art Andrews said:

You aren't being busted down because 1) the club didn't exist prior to this... and technically at the moment still doesn't and 2) because you held no real rank before. All that it took to obtain the title you had was 30 days and 30 posts which is no measure of contribution. If I recall, you said you have done considerable work unfolding models for the community. Anyone who posted "That is cool!" 30 times and had an account for 30 days was equal to you by the old system's standards... so did you really hold any rank prior to this? I would say not. A true ranking system hadn't been put in place as much as a system to try to limit spammers and to try to keep newbs from posting all over the board. Your "infantryman" title only equated to "I am not a spammer."

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Art, I think was Zaff was saying was that his experience in the community, regardless of whether or not he has built a complete suit, warrants something more than a Tier 0 rank. And I agree. Based on your description on the ranks, I too would be a Tier 0 despite the fact that I have been here for what...5 years? That's five years of helping new members, 3D modeling, unfolding pep files, helping with the E-Zine, etc. A Tier 0 rank IS a slap in the face.

Art Andrews said:

But... that is part of the thing. What we are talking about at the moment isn't forum rankings and we are unlikely to ever have forum-based rankings. Why? Because they are very very hard to automate and when they aren't automated, then they are simply arbitrary and that very quickly turns into hurt feelings.

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This is also something I disagree with heavily. This forum is the community pure and simple, and I think having ranking outside of the forum is a very, very bad idea. Again, there are lots of members that contribute solely to the community across the forum and may never see a convention or any sort of group meeting. They deserve just as much recognition as anyone else.

AI Blue Fox said:

Art, I'm gonna have to agree with zaff in the fact that even though some of us don't have a few completed suits under our belts, doesn't necisarilly mean we don't have the level of expertise from years of being on the site and other htings to show for it.

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It is very important that it is clear that no one is debating this point, most of all, me.

Even though both Dani and I as well as a few other have repeatedly used the word "inclusive" or "inclusion" several times, I get the feeling a number of people feel like they are suddenly going to find themselves on the outside, looking in. That is simply not the case. Now... granted, when you have a COSTUMING club, there IS going to have to be some... well... you know... costuming... That is the core nature of this site and it is going to play a heavy role in the effort we are developing. There is simply no way around it. Does that mean that those who don't have or don't build a costume won't be welcome? OF COURSE NOT! Is the fundamental way that the site operates going to change? Not really. Everyone will still be able to post. Pretty much anything that is open to you now will continue to be open to you. You will be welcome at events and gatherings with or without costumes. Obviously there will be some limitations (Microsoft probably won't ask for you to stand at their booth to represent Halo if you don't have a Halo costume...) but the overarching goal here IS to be as inclusive as possible.

AI Blue Fox said:

I may not have a full finished suit to hold as my badge of honor, but I, as many of us here have, hold a certain pride in being a part of this community, and have been part of it for over 5 years.

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Again, we are JUST in the first stages of trying to put a Club Covenant together. To date, this community has had NOTHING aside from the title of "Infantryman" to distinguish anyone. Bear with us and give us a little time. We are here to BUILD communities, not tear them down or make them feel like outsiders. I told everyone from the get-go that we weren't ready to start working on the club aspect yet, but I feel in a sense my hand has been forced because so many people wanted it. Now that we are pressing forward with that, everyone suddenly thinks they are going to be ostracized. Give us a little time...

AI Blue Fox said:

Again, sometimes something like a ranking system will no matter what cause some jealousy or what not from other people.

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This is something that cannot be helped in any system that has more than one level. People can either allow it to make them jealous or they can use it to motivate them and cause them to rise to the occasion.

AI Blue Fox said:

I say either keep it very simple, or not have one at all. We aren't the 501st, we don't have an age requirement and we don't usually have official appearances and what not.

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You are right, we are not the 501st, nor would I ever want you to be. In many ways the 501st is a fantastic organization, but having worked with them for well over 15 years... I have seen a lot of their missteps and weaknesses and I don't plan on repeating those here. With that being said, there ARE age restrictions in place already here. Perhaps you aren't aware of it, but people under the age of 13 cannot join the site (unless they lie about their age). We are looking at whether or not age restrictions would be required (18) for a club member. I don't know. That is something for lawyers to determine, not me.

AI Blue Fox said:

We are a community dedicated to helping each other grow in the art of costume design. We have to keep that at heart when going through all these changes.

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I do not believe you will ever see that change nor would we want it to.

I see trooper's point. I never was really in the know when it came to requests from Microsoft or 343 for appearances being an east coaster. That is why I want to put together a panel a PAX East to see if we can get some more people over here interested. As long as we stick together in moving forward, You have my support.

Trooper0621 said:

Any completed suit, even a super low def one made of cardboard, is as welcome at events as the hand-sculpted-over-2-years $3000 film quality suit.

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While it seems like most of the people posting aren't very concerned about this, this is a VERY important point. One of the things I have always felt was something of a mistake in the 501st was that there was no ability for entry level builders to be a part of their club. You had to come into the club with a top level costume... well, by that point, what do you need the help of the club for? Now, it is my understanding that they are making efforts to change this, but... well... we aren't concerning ourselves with what they do. We DO want to be inclusive and do want to welcome in those who either have an entry level costume or even are just working on a costume.

Trooper0621 said:

We do have semi-official appearances, "semi" only in part because the 405th technically doesn't have any members yet. Appearances are less common precisely because most of our subgroups are honestly still trying to stand themselves up, nevermind coordinate dozens of costumers.

However, at the Pacific we HAVE had appearances. From Machinima to 343i themselves. And often times they want to know who can actually show up in costume. Some of their events ask specifically for higher quality costumes. Sometimes they have other requirements (certain game series, color scheme, etc.)

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This is equally important. Part of the purpose for a tiered system and for a club at all is to set ourselves up to be prepared for these type of events. With the Tiered system the local groups will KNOW who is who if there is a request made with certain requirements. It is mostly about adding support, structure, professionalism and a more unified face to this community.

Trooper0621 said:

Don't think of these as 'ranks'. Think of them as logisitical organization tools to help meet the needs of external groups who want to work with us, and nothing to do with how you're valued at the 405th.

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Nailed it. I made a massive faux pas by labeling the broken down elements of the new logo as "Ranks." In fact, that is such an important point, I am quoting you again:

Trooper0621 said:

Don't think of these as 'ranks'. Think of them as logisitical organization tools to help meet the needs of external groups who want to work with us, and nothing to do with how you're valued at the 405th.

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AI Blue Fox said:

I see trooper's point. I never was really in the know when it came to requests from Microsoft or 343 for appearances being an east coaster. That is why I want to put together a panel a PAX East to see if we can get some more people over here interested. As long as we stick together in moving forward, You have my support.

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Again, think of the club that we are developing as something that is a layer that sits on top of the existing community. It is not replacing the existing community, although there will certainly be some changes on the board due to it.

Gokussj5okazu said:

This is also something I disagree with heavily. This forum is the community pure and simple, and I think having ranking outside of the forum is a very, very bad idea. Again, there are lots of members that contribute solely to the community across the forum and may never see a convention or any sort of group meeting. They deserve just as much recognition as anyone else.

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Tell me how you envision that working out... the actual nuts and bolts of it. I think you will find, very quickly that it is very complex, very arbitrary and will create more unbalance and a sense of favoritism than anything we are proposing.

Now... don't get me wrong. I was convinced a couple dozen posts ago that there needs to be more emphasis put on members who support the community but don't build themselves and am reworking a number of elements of the Covenant to support that concept... but if you can come up with a practical solution that doesn't involve post count or join date, that doesn't involve a massive amount of arbitrary decisions and won't create a lot of people feeling that there is favoritism, well, I'd be all for hearing it.

Art Andrews said:

Keep in mind that the Tiers are not structured in such a way as to denote the value of the member to the community. I am likely to ALWAYS be a Tier 0 member. I'd love to think that I would build my own suit, but the truth is, my time is spent making posts like this... so while I will certainly be a member of the club, I doubt that I will ever go further than Tier 0.

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Would like to point this out again since it Gokussj5okazu mentioned Tier 0 being a "slap in the face".

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On a different note: I don't think "Taken under the wing of the local battalion/regiment" is necessary to be part of the system. Just because it seems like a lot of people to place a lot of value in these simple descriptors, and I'd rather people who want to be involved in local regiments to be doing so purely because they want to be involved, and not out of pursuit of a title.

Plus, whether or not they are involved in any sort of club activities, they deserve recognition for taking the steps to make a suit.

Gokussj5okazu said:

This is also something I disagree with heavily. This forum is the community pure and simple, and I think having ranking outside of the forum is a very, very bad idea. Again, there are lots of members that contribute solely to the community across the forum and may never see a convention or any sort of group meeting. They deserve just as much recognition as anyone else.

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I also would like to point out that there are some of us, such as myself, that are NOT heavily involved in the forums but are heavily involved outside the forums. People who table at cons, host panels, invite new builders over to prop parties, etc.

The forum is part of the community. Halo costumers everywhere are part of the community. Recognizing one does not detract from any other. If people get fancy forum badges, it doesn't diminish the joy I get in seeing someone approach me at a panel and show me their first costume, saying last year's panel inspired them. If the regiments set up a tier system to better organize events, it doesn't detract the joy from seeing someone's progress grow and develop throughout the course of their build thread.

everandoak said:

Hi everyone,

I think Art will be providing a brand document for anyone who would like to use the logo, the icons, or any of the individual elements for their customizations. It includes vector shapes for all of the above as well as color values (RGB/CMYK/binhex/Pantone) and the fonts used (Bebas and Baksheesh). Again, best not to pick any raster art up from this thread as there are subtle differences in the final artwork and as I understand it you'll all have it soon!

In the meantime, I thought I'd put an offer out there for those of you who are not up to the task of creating your own variations (like adding a regiment or battalion name). If you'd like to tack something simple on or create a slight variation on the existing artwork, post here and let me know what you're looking for. Once in a while I'll sweep through and try to knock a few of them out for you! If you're good with Illustrator/Photoshop and can make what you need yourself, go for it. For the rest of you, I'll help out as many as I can.

Thanks for all the positive feedback on the new logo/icons!

Douglas

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One of our members kindly made us this great little logo inspired by the original 405th emblem. Would love to get your input on modifying it to be in line with the new 405th logo, especially designing a one color version for slapping on armor, decals, etc. I can send you the original illustrator file if you are interested.



https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/942467_623069614384102_336825115_n.jpg

Maybe it's only me and I'm standing alone in this, but I am growing to really hate the word "Club" being thrown around. Why? Because this is, was, and should always be a COMMUNITY, not a "club." Clubs denote exclusivity, strict requirements, and ultimately, elitism. We are a community. We all contribute in our own way and no one should be made to feel like they are less than what they are just because they haven't put together a full suit. A builder can't build without a model, can't sew without a template, and many of them wouldn't even have gotten their start if someone hadn't pointed them towards the tutorial videos, experiments, and experience of others who paved the way ahead of them.

And no, it wasn't 30 days and 30 posts. It was six months and at least 100 WORTHWHILE posts (no "cheerleading" as you called it) to become an infantryman, and with that came the ability to post outside of the noob forum as well as access to the classifieds section, so it was more than just an "honorary yet meaningless title."

At first the thought of a ranking system did sound kind of cool. Now it's sounding more and more like it's just going to be more trouble than it's worth.

As many have said, this isn't the 501st. This isn't RPF. This isn't any other "costuming club," this is a community. This is the 405th, and while it may have started as primarily a Halo-themed community, it has evolved into much more than that. Or would you tell Zombiegrimm to pack up many, many months of dedicated work cleaning up and unfolding pretty much the entire world of Skyrim and go somewhere else? And tell all those working on Destiny, Gundam, Star Wars, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Robocop, Dead Space, Iron Man, and even Lego builds to ship out while you're at it, right? Sorry but, screw that noise.

I'm sorry to put it like this, but Art, the 405th is a lot bigger than one man and his vision of seeing it turned into a "club" like all the others he's been a part of before. There comes a time when you have to leave well enough alone. "IF it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Gentlemen,
Would the teir system be less of a "Slap in the face" If it one, did not use a teir 0, but used perhaps merit badges?
Two, Art has stated repeatedly now that those who are 3d modlers/ those assist in other forms, such as toutorials, and such would be within their own regiment/ meritbadge system that would be a companion to the finished armor builds one?

Would you all be apposed to having multiple regiments, that everyone joins into one. To give a few ideas

Mobile Design Regiment ~~ For those who are 3d modlers who perfer making, modifying, and expanding the various systems and files that so many of us who actually make armor so desperatly need.
Pacfic Regiment
England Regiment
NorthEast Regiment
North central regiment
South Central Regiment
South East Regiment
Austrailian Regiment
Ect.

Most of these would be regionally based.

The Ranks that you would have would be 4. Now stop and hold your breath for a moment, I am not talking about the teir system, but a RANK system.
Cadet/ New Recruit __ Someone who ahs just joined, and is still getting their feet under them
Infantryman - What all of those who are here have gotten, after they get theri feet under them.
Line Officer -- Those who are kind enough to run, and deal with the issues of actually running the various regiments.
Command Officer. Aka Art, those who own/ operate this site, and OWN the 405th.

Reasons for these ranks are well most of us will be good old infantrymen.
Having the Line officers will help those of us who are in a given regon know who is the Leaders in our geographical area for setting up events in face to face situations. They have NO RIGHTS to command or tell someone off here in the forums, beyond the RCOM of each regeiment. They are responsible for the people in their regiment ONLY. They would also keep Command updated on who has compleated qualifications for various badges/ medals... so on.

Finally of course Command Officers.. well, they have Command and are the mods here and such. They already have power of god over us


For the Moblie Design Regiment how that would work out is they would have 1 Regimental Commander ((Rcom) As well. What that persons job would be is to pass on to Command Officers if one, there is an issue with a current member. 2, If one of their members meets qualifications of a merit badge. 3, able to help assist Command in getting projects for the site _That help us all_ in order and keep them moving.


Now.. On to the original Teir System. One do not call it a rank system, or teir system. They would be qualification badges, much like markmanship badges. They show that someone has compleated basic steps, and quality of work to gain. The RCOM of each regiment would pass onto Command when, if, and who should recieve each badge in the first place.

Basic Marksman Qualification Badge - Is making their first armor. It does not have to be finished, but a WIP.
Marksman Qualification Badge - Has compleated manufacture of1 armor of any quality level
Sharpshooter - has made 1 suit of Good quality level.
Sniper- Has made 1 suit of HIGH quality armor.

Now for those who are in the Mobile Design regiment
Scout Qualification badge- Has unfolded / designed 1 piece of armor \ Has posted 1 new file of what ever quality
Huntsman Qualification Badge - Has unfolded/ designed 1 suit of Low RES armor
Ranger Qualification Badge_ Has unfolded / designed 1 suit of MEDIUM RES armor
Green Barret Quailification badge _ HAs unfolded / designed 1 suit of HIGH RES armor


Could you get both sides of the qualification badges? Possibly. Do they exclude anyone, I do not see how they would. Yes it means everyone would be in regiments. Why? It is so that everyone would know who to go to when they met those qualifications to gain those badges. If this community has any number of members, then it will quickly step beyond what Command can handle to read through and check what and who all has earned the various badges.

Could they make one HELL of a lot of various badges.. Yes, they could. I think I know some ways to make it ALOT easier for Command, but I really would perfer to talk to them directly before I keep adding more thoughts here. I want to see if these Ideas will even have a chance with them before trotting them out to the rest of all here.

This thread has turned into pages of posts regarding ranks, yet the title is 405th Logo Update. I'd rather see the new logo being released as a higher priority than any final decisions regarding ranks. Perhaps all this ranking discussion can be moved to an appropriately-titled dedicated thread, and keep this one just for updates/comments about the new logo?

From reading this thread and Art’s responses, I feel like there are some possible miscommunication/misunderstandings happening here.

Art, you have made it clear that you had wanted to hold off on the regiment/”Club” aspect for a bit to try and avoid some of these very issues that are now cropping up in this thread, but correct me if I’m wrong, Art, but it feels like the intent at the moment is that these forum will stay intact as they are for the most.

The largest change will be an addition to the forum of the sections for each regiment. It is my understanding that the regiment’s sub sections will be housed here, on the main 405[SUP]th[/SUP] Forums. The intent of the local regimental sections is give people the opportunity to interact directly with people in their general vicinity for outside Forum activities, like armor parties/work shops, convention or other event appearances, or just general meet and greet hang out sessions. Members will of course be free to post armor builds in their local regimental board, but for the most part build discussion will take place where they are now, either in the “Recruit” section, or in the appropriate build sub forum.

The idea of a sort of “Formalized” joining of a “Club” I see as more of a step to verify that a member does have an intact physical costume so that if a request comes in from 343i or some other entity, like Make-A-Wish, Operation Supply Drop, it is known what kind of costumes are available in the local area and in what style.

Again, I don’t think Regiments are going to be getting their own separate forums and websites. It will all be hosted and presented here, on the main site. I feel like the idea is for the lists of “Active” members who have officially submitted a costume and gone, “Hey, I made this!” will most likely be presented on a page like the Member’s Lists on the Rebel Legion or 501[SUP]st[/SUP] site.

The “Club” aspect of sort of formally joining a local regiment will be an optional activity on this site. I don’t feel like suddenly the Forum is going to become “Club Members Only.” Pretty much everything is going to stay as it is now, you can register and post to your hearts content, create models, do unfolds, even post build threads in build areas, not in a local regiment section, all without ever actually taking the step to formally join the “club.”

It is being mentioned that making a costume being a requirement for some level of “membership” is unfair. Frankly, it’s a lot more fair than what we have now. Look at the “Elite Showcase” as it stands now. The lastest thread in there was from 2013. And there were never any guidelines given for who got to be declared “Elite” and who didn’t. Often it was at the whim of the Admins. Builds were added to the “Elite Section” that were not finished, and some that were never finished. But they were added because they showed promise or the person was a friend of the Admins or Mods. And yet, there was never this uproar and anger over the “Elite Showcase.” (Well, not much publically. I know several members who were never happy about it.)

Now, imagine the “club” as a sort of standardized “Elite Section” with rules. Of course, from what Dani and Art have said, the basic rule will be “Make a Suit.” No matter the material ,style, or level of skill. Just make a suit. Then you get to have your picture put on a section of the website with little caption under it that says “[Some Title for a person with a completed suit.]”

That’s it. No special privileges, no secret/hidden Forum sections, no special access to merchandise that is not given to “Non Club Members.” Just a picture of your suit on a special page of the site.

I do like the terminology of community over club, and would personally like to continue to see the 405th be a Halo Costuming Community, not a Halo Costuming Club. Ultimately it's a semantics thing, but semantics can matter.

However, I would say 405th is still primarily first and foremost, a Halo costuming community. Many of our members branch out, yes. But you don't see Borderlands staff and community leaders messaging us asking if we can show up at events. We won't see Fallout development staff asking us if we can help them make a movie. We do get these sorts of requests from the Halo staff.

I do want to continue to see members making stuff and delving into other fandoms. Members are always free to make what they want and will never be asked to leave. But from a community standpoint Halo should always be a priority. It's where the 405th is built, and where it continues to be recognized. Forum restructuring and outside events will likely all be designed with Halo in mind. We wont be making a Mass Effect costuming meetup anytime soon, or Star Wars, or even Destiny.

As an example: Knickknack/Sean Shaw/Shawshank props makes a LOT of amazing stuff. Not all of it is Halo. When our group meets up, is he welcome? Yes! Do we hang out with him, love everything he does, chat shop, and dance the night away at a club together, you betcha. But if he's in his X-Force Deadpool costume, can we invite him up on stage at the Halo panel when 343i welcomes the 405th up? Sadly, no. Not because he's not a valued member of the community even as he retires his Halo costume, but because our focus is Halo and that's what we are known for.

Does that make sense? As you said so yourself, this isn't the RPF. (which is a general prop/costuming community) It's the 405th, a Halo costuming community, with the key difference being Halo.

And as for 'infantryman' status, user "Revenge" has 32 posts over the course of the last 2 years. She is just as much a member of this community. She spent multiple days at Wondercon manning a booth, answering questions. And yet this forum system would classify her as a 'noob' based off of the fact that she participates more in the local community than the forum community. That's why it's arbitrary. There's more to the 405th than just the forums. We are far bigger than that.

Speaking of community, let's look at this picture:



It's a 405th group picture. There's no RWBY cosplay, no skyrim, no gundam, no other folks. Halo.

But there's costumes of every level there, different styles, techniques, and experience levels. One person only has a helmet. A Borderlands/Halo mixup uses a modified nerf gun. A makeshift ODST stands/crouches alongside a completely handmade OST which is next to a kit build.

And you know what? Even though I'm a 405th community member, I'm not in this picture. Why? They were taking pictures of the Halo costumes at the event. So I'm not 'included', but did I feel excluded? Not at all. We were all enjoying ourselves and everyone was invited to hang out at Dave and Buster's for an afterparty later.

This is the type of spirit Art has committed himself to, so those who are worried we will ever stop being an inclusive community, need not worry. Our inclusiveness is one of the reasons 343i loves us, and as Art mentioned before, we will never be strict with what costumes members make as the 501st is.

Sir, I think you need to post for me from now on as I don't think there is one thing you posted that is out of line with our thoughts and approach.

At the end of the day, we are going to push forward with this. We will be getting thoughts and input from many and running things by many longtime members.... and even then, we will have a Club Covenant that is changeable. If we see something isn't working, well then, we will just change it until it does.

We are pressing forward with adding the costume club aspect of this community because the members wanted it and to an extent, members like Trooper0621are already doing it. Those members deserve the backing and support of the community and we are going to give it to them while maintaining pretty much the status quo here on the forums.

Sadly, I suppose those who want to find a reason to be offended or insulted will, no matter what we do. Those who want to keep on doing what they have always done will find that their efforts are even more greatly acknowledged and rewarded. Those who want to take things to the next level will do that as well.

Again, thank you for saying it better than I have!

Cadet said:

From reading this thread and Art’s responses, I feel like there are some possible miscommunication/misunderstandings happening here.

Art, you have made it clear that you had wanted to hold off on the regiment/”Club” aspect for a bit to try and avoid some of these very issues that are now cropping up in this thread, but correct me if I’m wrong, Art, but it feels like the intent at the moment is that these forum will stay intact as they are for the most.

The largest change will be an addition to the forum of the sections for each regiment. It is my understanding that the regiment’s sub sections will be housed here, on the main 405[SUP]th[/SUP] Forums. The intent of the local regimental sections is give people the opportunity to interact directly with people in their general vicinity for outside Forum activities, like armor parties/work shops, convention or other event appearances, or just general meet and greet hang out sessions. Members will of course be free to post armor builds in their local regimental board, but for the most part build discussion will take place where they are now, either in the “Recruit” section, or in the appropriate build sub forum.

The idea of a sort of “Formalized” joining of a “Club” I see as more of a step to verify that a member does have an intact physical costume so that if a request comes in from 343i or some other entity, like Make-A-Wish, Operation Supply Drop, it is known what kind of costumes are available in the local area and in what style.

Again, I don’t think Regiments are going to be getting their own separate forums and websites. It will all be hosted and presented here, on the main site. I feel like the idea is for the lists of “Active” members who have officially submitted a costume and gone, “Hey, I made this!” will most likely be presented on a page like the Member’s Lists on the Rebel Legion or 501[SUP]st[/SUP] site.

The “Club” aspect of sort of formally joining a local regiment will be an optional activity on this site. I don’t feel like suddenly the Forum is going to become “Club Members Only.” Pretty much everything is going to stay as it is now, you can register and post to your hearts content, create models, do unfolds, even post build threads in build areas, not in a local regiment section, all without ever actually taking the step to formally join the “club.”

It is being mentioned that making a costume being a requirement for some level of “membership” is unfair. Frankly, it’s a lot more fair than what we have now. Look at the “Elite Showcase” as it stands now. The lastest thread in there was from 2013. And there were never any guidelines given for who got to be declared “Elite” and who didn’t. Often it was at the whim of the Admins. Builds were added to the “Elite Section” that were not finished, and some that were never finished. But they were added because they showed promise or the person was a friend of the Admins or Mods. And yet, there was never this uproar and anger over the “Elite Showcase.” (Well, not much publically. I know several members who were never happy about it.)

Now, imagine the “club” as a sort of standardized “Elite Section” with rules. Of course, from what Dani and Art have said, the basic rule will be “Make a Suit.” No matter the material ,style, or level of skill. Just make a suit. Then you get to have your picture put on a section of the website with little caption under it that says “[Some Title for a person with a completed suit.]”

That’s it. No special privileges, no secret/hidden Forum sections, no special access to merchandise that is not given to “Non Club Members.” Just a picture of your suit on a special page of the site.

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