Anyone Heard Of Spray On Hardeners ?

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hey guys, so i was talking with my uncle about my halo armour and how i was going to go about resining and fiberglassing the whole thing, and he brought up the idea of using a spray on hardener on the outside for a couple coats and then applying the fiberglass on the inside after. now, to me the whole idea of using a spray on hardener on the outside is just ingenious, i would think that if you took your time it would be easier to avoid warping this way.



anyone have any experience with things like this ?
 
Outlaw-Tiger said:
hey guys, so i was talking with my uncle about my halo armour and how i was going to go about resining and fiberglassing the whole thing, and he brought up the idea of using a spray on hardener on the outside for a couple coats and then applying the fiberglass on the inside after. now, to me the whole idea of using a spray on hardener on the outside is just ingenious, i would think that if you took your time it would be easier to avoid warping this way.



anyone have any experience with things like this ?

talk to BFdesigns as he was using truckbed spray i think it was and he said that it works a charm
 
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wow i never heard of that, do u have the name of the hardener. ill research it and i pray to god that there is one lol.
 
adventSpartanMatrix said:
talk to BFdesigns as he was using truckbed spray i think it was and he said that it works a charm



really ? sweet, thanks. i will look him up before i go to bed today ! thanks =D



SPARTAN-Mills117 said:
wow i never heard of that, do u have the name of the hardener. ill research it and i pray to god that there is one lol.



and we didn't know the name. my uncle wasn't sure if there even WAS something like that. it was just something that he had thought of on the spot as an easier way to prep the pieces for fiberglassing
 
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Outlaw-Tiger said:
really ? sweet, thanks. i will look him up before i go to bed today ! thanks =D







and we didn't know the name. my uncle wasn't sure if there even WAS something like that. it was just something that he had thought of on the spot as an easier way to prep the pieces for fiberglassing



oh damn well im still gonna look for somethin like that 8) ill let u know if i find anything
 
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SPARTAN-Mills117 said:
oh damn well im still gonna look for somethin like that 8) ill let u know if i find anything



sweet. thanks. if i find anything before you i will give you a head's up as well =D
 
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A long time ago, I saw a guy (can't remember who) recommend using Shellac brand hardener. Personally, I've used it on a couple of pieces and it works well, a light first coat and then heavier coats after that makes it rigid enough to fiberglass without too much worry of warping. I'd say a full 3-4 coats is about the same as 1-2 light coats of resin BUT the bonus being that you can just spray it on. I can't find a picture of it online but I got mine from Home Depot.



Edit: My mistake, it's actually BULLS EYE brand Shellac hardener. I did get it from Home Depot though and this is what the can looks like:



http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/047719/047719004080md.jpg
 
jareyes said:
A long time ago, I saw a guy (can't remember who) recommend using Shellac brand hardener. Personally, I've used it on a couple of pieces and it works well, a light first coat and then heavier coats after that makes it rigid enough to fiberglass without too much worry of warping. I'd say a full 3-4 coats is about the same as 1-2 light coats of resin BUT the bonus being that you can just spray it on. I can't find a picture of it online but I got mine from Home Depot.



really ? that is pretty much what i was looking for =D thanks. and do you know if resin bonds well to the shellac ?
 
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Outlaw-Tiger said:
really ? that is pretty much what i was looking for =D thanks. and do you know if resin bonds well to the shellac ?



Interesting you should ask haha. Sorry, I totally forgot to mention, on my Mk. VI HD chest piece, I shellac-ed it to avoid warping and then when I put a layer of resin on top of it, it just got super tacky and stayed like that forever. If you're going to fiberglass on the inside and soak those pieces in resin, that's fine; it'll adhere and stay and stuff. If you're putting JUST resin, you need to lightly sand it first so that the resin has something to soak into.
 
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jareyes said:
Interesting you should ask haha. Sorry, I totally forgot to mention, on my Mk. VI HD chest piece, I shellac-ed it to avoid warping and then when I put a layer of resin on top of it, it just got super tacky and stayed like that forever. If you're going to fiberglass on the inside and soak those pieces in resin, that's fine; it'll adhere and stay and stuff. If you're putting JUST resin, you need to lightly sand it first so that the resin has something to soak into.





hey could you post a topic on this stuff, i wanna know more about it, it looks really interesting? so again could u post a topic talking bout it ty 8)
 
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jareyes said:
A long time ago, I saw a guy (can't remember who) recommend using Shellac brand hardener. Personally, I've used it on a couple of pieces and it works well, a light first coat and then heavier coats after that makes it rigid enough to fiberglass without too much worry of warping. I'd say a full 3-4 coats is about the same as 1-2 light coats of resin BUT the bonus being that you can just spray it on. I can't find a picture of it online but I got mine from Home Depot.



Edit: My mistake, it's actually BULLS EYE brand Shellac hardener. I did get it from Home Depot though and this is what the can looks like:



http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/047719/047719004080md.jpg





oops sorry didnt see this, anyway is this stuff non- toxic? and i tried searchning it on the home depot online store but it didnt come up with anything? do u know if its a common product that they sell?
 
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jareyes said:
Interesting you should ask haha. Sorry, I totally forgot to mention, on my Mk. VI HD chest piece, I shellac-ed it to avoid warping and then when I put a layer of resin on top of it, it just got super tacky and stayed like that forever. If you're going to fiberglass on the inside and soak those pieces in resin, that's fine; it'll adhere and stay and stuff. If you're putting JUST resin, you need to lightly sand it first so that the resin has something to soak into.



hmm so what you are saying is that resin + shellac do not mix well if you want a good solid/hard surface ? what i was thinking of doing was just shellac'ing the outside for several layers, and then using resin and fiberglass on the inside. think that would be just as strong as just resin on the outside and resin and fiberglass on the inside ?
 
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if you're just looking to do a quick layer of resin over the outside to keep your pep piece from warping just go with this stuff





2007051801060812004-0421-0005.jpg




a lot of craft stores carry that stuff, if not you can order it from tap plastics.
 
cgspartan said:
if you're just looking to do a quick layer of resin over the outside to keep your pep piece from warping just go with this stuff





2007051801060812004-0421-0005.jpg




a lot of craft stores carry that stuff, if not you can order it from tap plastics.





oooooh so this stuff is more or less just resin ? i'm gonna need to look this stuff up
 
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SPARTAN-Mills117 said:
oops sorry didnt see this, anyway is this stuff non- toxic? and i tried searchning it on the home depot online store but it didnt come up with anything? do u know if its a common product that they sell?



To be honest, I went one time and it was there. I went another time, it wasn't haha. If it IS there though, it'll be in the paint aisle (or close to it) but it won't be with the actual paints. It'll be with the finishes section, there's a whole section for bullseye brand products at my home depot. I think the finisher/varnish comes in the spraycan but there's also the paint-type can with the pry-open lid. Try looking there, one of the stores should have it. I've also experimented with some dupli-colour sandable primer. A couple of coats of that stuff is not as good as the shellac or resin, but it still adds a bit of rigidity to the overall structure. Give that a try if everything else fails.



Outlaw-Tiger said:
hmm so what you are saying is that resin + shellac do not mix well if you want a good solid/hard surface ? what i was thinking of doing was just shellac'ing the outside for several layers, and then using resin and fiberglass on the inside. think that would be just as strong as just resin on the outside and resin and fiberglass on the inside ?



I'm not saying that they don't mix well per se, but that if you have the shellac on, putting resin directly over it will not let the resin dry entirely.. I'm no resin expert, but I think part of what allows the resin to feel dry is the ability to soak into another substance and therefore dilute its liquid content.. or something.. I'm completely guessing. Anyhow, if you were to shellac the outside for several layers AND the inside, it's still ok to resin and fiberglass. THIS IS THE ONLY CATCH: if you DO shellac a surface you plan on resining, make sure to RESIN WITH THE FIBERGLASS. Because the resin can soak into the fiberglass, it's the same as doing it normally (i.e. with no shellac). So, to make my rambling brief:



shellac:

resin + fiberglass = okay

resin = will become tacky forever

fiberglass = well... I don't know why you'd do that



without shellac:

resin + fiberglass = okay

resin = okay



Hope that helps, and hope you can both find the product in your area should you choose to use it. I've had pretty good results so far.
 
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jareyes said:
To be honest, I went one time and it was there. I went another time, it wasn't haha. If it IS there though, it'll be in the paint aisle (or close to it) but it won't be with the actual paints. It'll be with the finishes section, there's a whole section for bullseye brand products at my home depot. I think the finisher/varnish comes in the spraycan but there's also the paint-type can with the pry-open lid. Try looking there, one of the stores should have it. I've also experimented with some dupli-colour sandable primer. A couple of coats of that stuff is not as good as the shellac or resin, but it still adds a bit of rigidity to the overall structure. Give that a try if everything else fails.I'm not saying that they don't mix well per se, but that if you have the shellac on, putting resin directly over it will not let the resin dry entirely.. I'm no resin expert, but I think part of what allows the resin to feel dry is the ability to soak into another substance and therefore dilute its liquid content.. or something.. I'm completely guessing. Anyhow, if you were to shellac the outside for several layers AND the inside, it's still ok to resin and fiberglass. THIS IS THE ONLY CATCH: if you DO shellac a surface you plan on resining, make sure to RESIN WITH THE FIBERGLASS. Because the resin can soak into the fiberglass, it's the same as doing it normally (i.e. with no shellac). So, to make my rambling brief:shellac:resin + fiberglass = okayresin = will become tacky foreverfiberglass = well... I don't know why you'd do thatwithout shellac:resin + fiberglass = okayresin = okayHope that helps, and hope you can both find the product in your area should you choose to use it. I've had pretty good results so far.

i worked in a body/paint shop for a while, and actually, the resin stayign tack is from a lack of hardener in it. the resin itself is only one part of a chemical reaction, (hinse when u and the hardener to it it will get hot. that's because there's a reaction). so it should stay on the shellac fine. when i worked at the shop i accidently left the bondo open, and forgot about it till i have to use it on a car 4 days later and it was still wet/muddy (i didn't want to ask the supervisor why that was though.... ;p), so i learned the hard way. plus after u pour the resin in the cup and u don't whip it off, u will notice that it's still wet/tacky in consistancy. so in turn applying the resin to the shellac should be fine, but that's just what i'm thinking. haven't put it into action..... hope that little lesson helped a little
 
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halodude164 said:
i worked in a body/paint shop for a while, and actually, the resin stayign tack is from a lack of hardener in it. the resin itself is only one part of a chemical reaction, (hinse when u and the hardener to it it will get hot. that's because there's a reaction). so it should stay on the shellac fine. when i worked at the shop i accidently left the bondo open, and forgot about it till i have to use it on a car 4 days later and it was still wet/muddy (i didn't want to ask the supervisor why that was though.... ;p), so i learned the hard way. plus after u pour the resin in the cup and u don't whip it off, u will notice that it's still wet/tacky in consistancy. so in turn applying the resin to the shellac should be fine, but that's just what i'm thinking. haven't put it into action..... hope that little lesson helped a little



Not trying to put you down but I'm just not 100% sure about that. I'm not unfamiliar with the proportions to use in resin and yet it was still tacky. I also just mentioned sanding it lightly because the other guy I had gotten the advice from suggested doing it, I assumed he would know better than me since I guess he had done it already. Just be careful either way I guess (both with adding enough hardener to resin AND using shellac with resin, in general) because dealing with tacky resin is a gigantic pain the buttocks!!
 
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huh, thanks a bunch jareyes, that actually clears everything that you were saying MUCH clearer =D and i will for sure keep that in mind when i starts fiberglassing my armour
 
sanding the area would help greatly since a sanded surface helps the resin adhere to another finished surface. that's basic when doing things like body work, or at least on a car to my knowledge, but that's where i profess at. i'm not all that sure with paper and shellac. and yes, tacky resin on the paper that never dries is definately a biznatch!!!!!! happened to my first helmet and i had to ad like to more layers to it, just to relize that it fell when it was wet and warped the jaw/ mouth guard..... so i'm working on my new one. but that's just my sob story. but yeah the only advise i could give is just try it on something not very important BEFORE you try to apply it to your armor
 
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