Jorge KIA or just MIA

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If you consider yourself a Halo historian, then you'll take well to realize there is dialogue from Fall of Reach, concerning Red Team, playing on various radios. You ought to realize the Fall of Reach was not a one-front battle. There were countless places the Covenant engaged the UNSC, both in space and on the ground. We've seen 2 perspectives of this: Red Team's and Noble Team's.

Another thing you need to seriously recall is that Bungie is the undeniable storywriter for Halo canon. If they say something is canon, you'd better believe it's canon. Halo: Fall of Reach was revised and tweaked to match more closely the events that are stated to have taken place before and during the battle, so it wouldn't contradict Halo: Reach. And it doesn't contradict it. Even the dates work out right. Halo: Reach happened.

The Artifact is the only reason the Covenant didn't just immediately glass the surface of the planet. They needed to retrieve the object at any cost. So they did. Unbeknown to them, the artifact was very near a UNSC base, CASTLE. That's how Halsey and the remainder of Red Team found it. (Halsey was headed for CASTLE Base when she left SWORD Base, in Reach) As for its effect on Slipspace travel, we know it had an effect on superluminal speed and relative time, as well as releasing massive amounts of radiation inside the ship. However, its properties are very much irrelevant to Jorge, because its Slipspace-manipulation properties don't hold to the same standard as a UNSC Slipspace drive. (Or rather, vice-versa. Also, note it does effect Master Chief's travel from the Ark, potentially, because the sheer speed it granted allowed for lightyears' travel in mere moments, possibly meaning the Chief was exposed to a minimal amount of lethal factors, while still traveling an incredibly long distance)

UNSC Slipspace drives tear the slipstream open, grab a filament and hang on for the ride.
Covenant Slipspace drives surgically cut open the slipstream, select a much finer filament, much more accurately, and remain on it the entire journey.
Forerunner Slipspace technology works in an entirely unknown fashion. All that IS known about it is they could even more finely manipulate the slipstream than the Covenant, and contain entire worlds within it. In fact, their stasis systems are stated to use Slipspace instead of freezing.

The drive Jorge encountered was a UNSC drive. It punched a hole in slipspace, but instead of projecting that hole ahead of it, it smashed it around itself, engulfing it in an overload that caused the utter destruction of the ships.

This brings another note to my attention: Even if he somehow survived and reappeared in normal space, what would stop the 45% of a Covenant Supercarrier docked to the Corvette from exploding and taking him with it, as its reactors overloaded? Even if that didn't happen, an entire Covenant army was aboard the ship. Even Hyper-lethal Vectors like Master Chief and Noble Six couldn't fight those odds, and Jorge isn't nearly as effective a fighter, if his actions in the game are anything to go by.

There are too many even-if's, and those even-if's are punctuated with death.

I think we just need to let this rest. (Or should I ask if one Major Robert Ernest Rausch, who went MIA on April 16, 1970, after his RF-4C crashed, is still alive? (Sorry for any offense anyone might take in my using a real veteran for comparison))
 
well, Millitary Protocal states that for a soldier to be listed as KIA, an Eye-witness account must see the dead body of said soldier to confirm Killed in action, since no one saw Jorge die, he would technically be listed as MIA, on top of he being a spartan, he must be listed as MIA anyway.

(excuse my grammer, it's 3 AM in the morning.)
 
There are a lot of "Well, protocol dictates he's MIA" posts. The title asks that, but the OP asks if you think he is dead or alive, not MIA or KIA. You can be MIA and dead. >.>
 
Jorge is KIA....

1. blast proximity
2. no helmet means no head shielding
3. no helmet
4. UNSC had tried underpowered "Slipspace" jumps before...every ship came through.......in billions of pieces
5. Kat was inspired by the cygnus colony ship accident
6. #4 and 5 are the basis of operation uppercut

JORGE GETS ATOMIZED!

Now onto the MCPO. John-117 Reach thoery

1. The front is there.... not the back
2. Reach was glassed by the covies and Menanchite mountain, where CASTLE BASE was, was leveled and excaveted by the covies
3. Reach is not a shield world of conventional design (if it even is)
4. Master Chief was in the vehicle bay, thous #1
5. A shield world is a micro dyson sphere(HALO WARS) or a sentienal made artificial planet with a dyson sphere(Ghosts of ONYX)
6. the other ship is a possible forerunner design but then again the date would be such that MCPO is in his eighties (it's 30 years from the end of the Humo-covenant war) and human technology has advanced
7. 343 could do a funky chicken with the MC's story so I'm waiting to see what happens.......
 
well, Millitary Protocal states that for a soldier to be listed as KIA, an Eye-witness account must see the dead body of said soldier to confirm Killed in action, since no one saw Jorge die, he would technically be listed as MIA, on top of he being a spartan, he must be listed as MIA anyway.

(excuse my grammer, it's 3 AM in the morning.)

You make a good point. But what about normal protocol (back to reality here people)? Obviously if someone goes missing and you don't see any proof of death, they're listed as MIA. But what if you see them enter a spaceship, the ship exploded, and you can't find any human remains? Are they listed as MIA or KIA?

Somewhat similar to the Columbia Space Shuttle incident, but what if they were already in space, and some astronauts were working outside of the space shuttle, and the shuttle explodes? Eventually they'd die of lack of oxygen, but what if they had infinite oxygen? Would they be KIA or MIA? (And yes, they'd have to be in the military as well, but hey, we're talking theoratical here.)

Jorge is dead. Unless you want to play hollywood where he finds some random crawspace and blasts away at the last moment, or magically turns out okay on the other side and finds a way back to Reach. Otherwise, he's dead.
 
The way I understood it the books were B-Canon. In addition there are several cases where the events of reach could have occured with the fall of reach...rescuing halsey on reach before it's totally glassed? perhaps jun was dead by then/MIA and separated from halsey? The corvette was cloaked above its drop site but Auntie Dot notes that the covenant had made dozens of undedected drops, perhaps giving Chief another target. After all, if Onyx is any indicator, ONI doesn't like talking to itself. the spartan IIIs were kept separate from the entirety of Humanity, even ONI. Even Grey team, Spartan IIs(!) were not kept track of if the mission necessitated it. Given the tight knit nature of the Spartan IIs it follows logically that Noble team would be kept as far separate from them as possible, lest the spartans start "asking questions" and have to be "retired" by ONI-s-1. In essence, the targeted nature of Halo:Reach leaves plenty of room for the events of Fall of Reach to still take place. Also, the games take storyline canon over novels comics audio books and any other "expanded universe" material, which are not necessary to the story lines of the games. Thus, as I belive Jones of Bungie noted, if it conflicts with the games, the games win.

EDIT: stupid quote didn't take...I'm replying to last page about "halo reach not happening"
 
Somewhat similar to the Columbia Space Shuttle incident, but what if they were already in space, and some astronauts were working outside of the space shuttle, and the shuttle explodes? QUOTE]

I dont know how many times I have to explain it to you people... THE SHIP JORGE WAS ON DID NOT EXPLODE!!!!
 
Somewhat similar to the Columbia Space Shuttle incident, but what if they were already in space, and some astronauts were working outside of the space shuttle, and the shuttle explodes? QUOTE]

I dont know how many times I have to explain it to you people... THE SHIP JORGE WAS ON DID NOT EXPLODE!!!!

To my knowledge anything that makes a bang when it "malfuctions"(purposely sabatoged) and then is used agaisnt a space-farring vehicle, then makes said ship turn into billions of pieces....

is an explosion in my book.
 
Even if that didn't happen, an entire Covenant army was aboard the ship. Even Hyper-lethal Vectors like Master Chief and Noble Six couldn't fight those odds, and Jorge isn't nearly as effective a fighter, if his actions in the game are anything to go by.

i agree with everything except this small area, think about it, the masterchief has 10x the skill of six, the size of jorge, an intellegence rivaling some of the most intellegent minds, luck, and a large chance that cortana would be with him.
and to add on, the covanet supercarrier wasnt expecting to have its center 3rd removed, meaning a large portion of the population of the carrier would die from lack of oxygen.
 
Considering the high compartmentalization of Covenant craft, I would expect a small percentage of the theoretical "survivors" of the jump to die of hypoxia (and what of grunts?), leaving still, thousands of Covenant soldiers, in their own turf, with access to onboard armories and the like. In any case, this isn't about John, it's about Jorge. And you can concede that Jorge wouldn't have been able to beat those odds, no?

Gakken, you're getting stupid. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed, that's a fundamental law of physics. It can't just disappear. It has to go somewhere. And that somewhere is, various places, scattered across the universe, as each atom is individually ripped from the ship and its contents and flung away on the threads of slipspace. In this case, the ship and its contents are shattered into TRILLIONS (Quadrillions?) of pieces, in a highly-energetic event, and it is destroyed. To explode something is to break something into many pieces through a high-energy event. Hmm.

In being blasted to oblivion, it seems, you could define it as having exploded.


General Note: The novels aren't quite B-canon (except the Flood, which has been stated to be such by Bungie) Halo: Fall of Reach and Halo: First Strike fit well within the timeframes in Halo Reach, and all 3 works complement each other's stories. Reach is just Noble's perspective, and Fall of Reach and First Strike are Red Team's. (Assuming Master Chief can be considered a member of Red Team). In fact, various radios in Halo Reach refer to Red Team's deployment and status, as an easter egg.
 
like i said, i agree with you for pretty much every thing exept for the unlikley event that john-117 is put in jorges place.

but yeah, jorge is pretty much screwed.
 
didnt turn into billions of peices... it dissapeared...

and when it does ever reappear from slipspace it will be in pieces...billions of pieces and mostly atomized at that....

anything rigged to blow like bomb makes lots of shrapnel, and this slipspace bomb is no different
 
only one thing about anything to state. no matter what he is dead. he could have been lost in the slipspace rupture and never re atomized, because if you have read the novels, it states the the law of physics do not apply in slipspace. nothing can be said about that. he could have jumped intact into a planets atmosphere and lived or died, depending on if he used his armor lock. he could have been jumped INSIDE the planet and died when transitioning into the planet. or he could have been transitioned into space and died, because his armor contains 15 minutes of an air supply. but he could not have his atoms scattered inside the blast, because there was no blast. the term bomb was used because it was a detonated device used for a large deal of destruction. and you cannot say that because it was a form of bomb that there has to be shrapnel. use a nuclear bomb for example. in the initial detonation, no shrapnel is created because there is no true blast. the atoms in the area are super charged and then split, vaporizing everything. and dont say "then why are there no craters?" because they detonate anywhere between 100 and 1000 feet off the ground. the shock wave is there after-effect of this, because once the air is gone after the blast it rushes back immediately from its surrounding area, and just like when this happens to water, pnce it all meets together it forms a ripple, and in this case the ripple is your shockwave. so if that was your explanation, the think of the nuke.
 
Too bad he didn't have the MarkVII mentioned in Halsey's journals which would hopefully help him survive a slipspace field...or did he?
 
In spite of everyhting...I'm pretty sure all roads lead to the death of one very large member of Noble team. The curious thing is whether or not Jorge 'gave up'. We see him in the cutsene dejectedly dropping his helmet, just before he gives N6 the good news/bad news. he reminded me of that big indian in Predator that bascially gave up fighting and offered himself up to the "demonio".

I mean could he have possibly detonated the drive and made like a bunny rabbit out through that containment field? I mean that portal opened up big and wide very quickly, but still... wouldn't you try? Could they have tried to tinker with the device in an attempt to reactivate the timer? Were all other options nullified for Jorge because he didn't have a re-entry unit? If so did Jorge know this was a one way mission all along and refuse to take one? It seemed that at any point either one of them could have stayed behind. But the Big Man insisted, plus being tossed out of a spacehip and into orbit is a pretty compelling argument.

I'm not sure what "Tell them to make it count" meant but, rest in peace Jorge
 
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