Foam VS Pep

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SilentWings

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Hey all!

I've been here for a while, and only posted a few times, then I vanished and now I'm back with a vengeance.

Last time I was here, I had started on a pep armor build and managed to finish an AR and a helmet. Sadly, a heavy box was dropped on the pair of pep models and they were damaged beyond repair. Disheartened and off put by the event, I left the forums and swept the dream of having a suit of armor under the bed.

I'm back, however, and I have decided to take another crack at it. Only this time, I'm looking into foam builds. I've already done quite a bit of research on foam builds, and looked at several great foam builds here (Nick Nack's foam build for example) and I have to say I'm sold on the foam.

But there is one problem I do have with the foam, and that's the helmet. Of all the foam builds I've seen, only a small few make the helmet out of foam. Nick Nack pepped his, and so did another build I've seen, the name escapes me at the moment, and I was wondering what the reason for this was. Does the pepped helmet just look better? Or is it a sizing issue? If it is a sizing issue, why wouldn't I just get a thinner foam and make it from that? But then, wouldn't that be a stability hazard? *sighs* So many questions.

Furthermore, what is your favorite type of armoring? Pepping or Foam? Or maybe something else. Keep in mind I'm not asking what your dream armor would be built of, but what your favorite medium for working is.

I've only tried pep this far, and I'm hoping foam will be not only an entirely new beast to tame and have fun with.

I look forward to everyone's answers ^_^
 
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But there is one problem I do have with the foam, and that's the helmet. Of all the foam builds I've seen, only a small few make the helmet out of foam. Nick Nack pepped his, and so did another build I've seen, the name escapes me at the moment, and I was wondering what the reason for this was. Does the pepped helmet just look better? Or is it a sizing issue? If it is a sizing issue, why wouldn't I just get a thinner foam and make it from that? But then, wouldn't that be a stability hazard? *sighs* So many questions.
Foam is relatively new so people are still working a lot of stuff out. Foam helmets just recently started recently getting popular after a couple really nice ones(aside from Gamemaster's, who has had a great looking one for some time now). People pep helmets because then they go on to harden it with resin and bondo and eventually mold it. You can wear a resin/bondo'd helmet but they are pretty heavy and usually are just a step on the way to molding out of a lighter material. Sizing really is not an issue. Yes, thinner foams are going to need something to stabilize them. I have tried the 1/2" foam mat helmets and I just could not get helmet making down with it from pepakura files. It is too thick, too rigid and just gets in the way of itself without a lot of bevel cuts.

However, 3mm foam is working great for me and helmets so far. I am just going to use the Craft Foam Armor Tutorial method to reinforce mine.

Furthermore, what is your favorite type of armoring? Pepping or Foam?
Foam. Low toxic, all-year, indoor working ability is the best.
 
So, one of the main reasons people make pep helmets is to mold them? I had no idea...but it makes sense. I wouldn't even know where to begin with molding though, so I think that is going to have to wait until I have some more experience in the armor making world. Thank you for your answer though. I'll have to check out Gamemaster's helmet as well.

I keep what you said about the 3mm in mind. Thanks!
 
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Hey bud,

I would stick with pepping for the helmet and any other major pieces. That's the sucky part: getting a first pep build completely done. But it's really just the hump of the project. Once you have a pep build you're happy with, you can do whatever you want with it, whether it be molding it for true plastic or foam builds.

By the way, does anybody know if anyone's ever used a CNC to mill the parts out of aluminum? Someone suggested that to me one time and I've been intrigued by that idea for awhile. I mean, access to a CNC machine is... let's just say... not really a reality at this point. However, I do go to an engineering school and $10 says that my school possesses a CNC.
 
I've never used a CNC, but I figure its possible since JUSTINIAN 117 used a laser to make his parts (I believe that is what he used to do it).

I have a little experience with milling (gun smithing well more like armoring) but not very much
 
I'm also going to an engineering school and we DO have CNC machines... six actually. The only problem is that with engineering schools usually they only have the student CNC model, which is only good with parts at most twelve inches long and/or wide. Since the machines are more for training/teaching rather than actual production, colleges usually go with the smallest model available. But, give it shot. If you no a professor/instructor who's willing to let you have a go at, go for it...

Anywho, along with the foam vs. pep argument, I just completed my first foam armor piece after building about half of my suit out of fiberglassed pep. I'm definitely a convert to the foam. However, for the ease of the build, I believe helmets should be kept to pep. There are just some details that are easier to achieve with pep than foam (at least for me anyway).
 
I made 2 suits out of color foam mats and they turn out very good for short amount of time but I still have to do my helmets in pep and used the smoothcast to harden them because the thickness of foam make it harder to get the right curve and angle.
 
I made 2 suits out of color foam mats and they turn out very good for short amount of time but I still have to do my helmets in pep and used the smoothcast to harden them because the thickness of foam make it harder to get the right curve and angle.

Hm, the foam thickness seems to be the major issue I see about making the helmets out of foam.

Anywho, along with the foam vs. pep argument, I just completed my first foam armor piece after building about half of my suit out of fiberglassed pep. I'm definitely a convert to the foam. However, for the ease of the build, I believe helmets should be kept to pep. There are just some details that are easier to achieve with pep than foam (at least for me anyway).

Yeah, now that I think about foam, and how it acts and reacts to manipulations, it would be hard to get the detail work as well as the curves and graduations of the helmet. At least on a detailed level.

I have decided that I am going to make both. A helmet from foam and a pep helmet to see which permutation I like more.
 
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I think people make the helmet out of fiberglass because its the centerpiece of the armor. When people see your armor, the first thing they wanna see is the helmet, but no one says, "Hey, can I see your thigh!" lol.
 
it is easier to put detail into a pepakura helmet than it is for a foam helmet, also the files are already set up for a pepping its hard/impossible to find a foam helmet file and it is also time consuming adapting a pep file to a foam template . your best of pepping your helmet :)

sonic
 
true that buddy i always have done pepakura on any build it has saved me a whole lot of headache and hours of work and stress
 
I've currently come across foam as well, and, seeing as I'm a poor college student, I can't afford to do fiberglass. With a little ingenuity and A LOT of patience I think it would be possible to create a helmet with suitable detail using foam! :D (you just have to get different thicknesses and different tools to add detail and shape, not to mention the all important heat gun). (using paint to add shading can also add a smack ton of detail as well)

One name of a thinner foam is L200 (aka craft foam, check walmart, or any craft store for it) it may come in handy. I also ran into this really quick tutorial on youtube that uses drill bits and screws pushed into the foam to add a futuristic/ industrial (almost fallout-esque) feel to the armor (its also a good general tutorial for foam builds). so adding bits and pieces of other "stuff" helps. layering would also add detail as well

Here is the link to the youtube video:

I'm going to home hardware (or something) today with my dad and hopefully they have some foam mats there so I can practice random bits with it (maybe make a gun), hopefully I'll pick up a heat gun too, maybe I'll head out with my mom and find some thin foam.

My inspiration: This chick's armor: http://bioweapons.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/img_3823a.jpg
main webpage: http://bioweapons.wordpress.com/ (guy's suit as well)

We'll see what happens :)

As for Pep vs. Foam, I have no real idea. Fiberglass and resin can get expensive but it can be a lot easier to gain more detail (it you know what you are doing). Foam is easier to get a hold of and has a certain comfort factor. In the end its really about personal preference and how comfortable you are with the medium. (I used to be dead-set on pepakura with fiberglass but this foam seems intriguing especially know that I've seen how awesome it can look)
 
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I've currently come across foam as well, and, seeing as I'm a poor college student, I can't afford to do fiberglass. With a little ingenuity and A LOT of patience I think it would be possible to create a helmet with suitable detail using foam! :D (you just have to get different thicknesses and different tools to add detail and shape, not to mention the all important heat gun). (using paint to add shading can also add a smack ton of detail as well)

One name of a thinner foam is L200 (aka craft foam, check walmart, or any craft store for it) it may come in handy. I also ran into this really quick tutorial on youtube that uses drill bits and screws pushed into the foam to add a futuristic/ industrial (almost fallout-esque) feel to the armor (its also a good general tutorial for foam builds). so adding bits and pieces of other "stuff" helps. layering would also add detail as well

Here is the link to the youtube video:

I'm going to home hardware (or something) today with my dad and hopefully they have some foam mats there so I can practice random bits with it (maybe make a gun), hopefully I'll pick up a heat gun too, maybe I'll head out with my mom and find some thin foam.

My inspiration: This chick's armor: http://bioweapons.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/img_3823a.jpg
main webpage: http://bioweapons.wordpress.com/ (guy's suit as well)

We'll see what happens :)

As for Pep vs. Foam, I have no real idea. Fiberglass and resin can get expensive but it can be a lot easier to gain more detail (it you know what you are doing). Foam is easier to get a hold of and has a certain comfort factor. In the end its really about personal preference and how comfortable you are with the medium. (I used to be dead-set on pepakura with fiberglass but this foam seems intriguing especially know that I've seen how awesome it can look)
See, I think the same thing. As long as I'm clever and patient, I'm sure I can make a foam helmet that looks perfect in detail and scale.

I know what you mean about being a broke college student, as I am in essentially the same boat, and foam just seems like a cheaper and simpler medium to work with.

Also, that link, thank you for it. It always helps to have more inspiration bookmarked in my history. ^_^
 
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Using foam has advantages and disadvantages, the main advantages are cost (low), toxicity (none unless you burn in details), weight (about 1/5th of fiberglass) and time to make (roughly 1/3rd vs pep/resin) with the main disadvantages being pattern making (can be hard for those lacking spacial skills) and surface durability (with prolonged wear crease lines will show up).
The pep method is tried and true, if you take your time you get nice parts with the correct curves and angles, working with the foam requires a certain amount of artistic flair and a lot of carving out the back of the foam. I use a hot-knife and the various branding bits
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and can achieve an amazing detail level, you can literally look at the in-game reference models and pictures and burn in details or add various thickness foamies for some great results. For example I use low-def pep files and convert them for foam use, then I take an HD file, match the size and print any small HD parts I want and then transfer them to the foam, either by cutting and insetting, burning with an appropriate size tip or adding a thin foamie shape.
You can coat the foam with plasti-dip to minimize the creasing but this adds a lot to the cost. Also using dark flat paints helps to hide this.
Another advantage to foam is comfort and strapping, you don't need a harness for the thighs, cod and shoulders, they are light enough to velcro to your undersuit and you don't need to split the torso, it has enough flex to put it on like a shirt.
As for the helm it can be done and is very light and comfortable to wear, requiring minimal padding but does require a ton of carving and cutting angles on the backside, plus a lot of thinking which can lead to hair-loss. My first helm came out too squat and wide so I added extra glue inside to strengthen it, then applied heat to it and reshaped it until it looked more like it should in the game. I also added another layer of thin 3mm foam the the chin section so it matched closer to how it looks in the game. I used 12mm foam and with the visor in place and the copious amounts of glue and layered 3mm foam it is very sturdy. Here are a few pics of other helms I have made to show what can be done.
OED - notice there are virtually no seams except along paint-lines or where there is a seam in the game, everywhere else will be smooth. I can still add as much detail as I want using reference pictures and use heat to shape it if I determine it is too narrow.
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Mark 6 - this is my 2nd attempt, I spent mucho extra time to make the back seams nice and used 3mm layers on the top sides to hide the ugly seams. www.squidoo.com/how-to-make-halo-helmets for more details.
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The main mistake I see new foam crafters make is not joining pep parts prior to cutting the foam where there is no visible seam in the reference pictures and not using a hotknife, resulting in jagged edges. A heatgun is also very handy, but you can use a hairdryer or a stove element if this is out of your budget.
Well, whatever method you choose patience is the key to fine craftsmanship, good luck and happy armoring!
 
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