To Rip or not to Rip? This has been disturbing me long enough.

Okay to Use Ripped models or Not?


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Seth Knight

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Alright, I know everyone's had to deal with this question. Should we use ripped models, or should we sustain from model theft and use only original models?

Pros:

Game accurate models (duh)
no need to generate original models, but only needing to clean them up.

Cons:
Copyright Laws (theft)
No pride in creating something original

I've been on the side of using no ripped models, but after finding out the lack of other non halo models, my model 'morals' if you will, have been blurred.

I don't feel right about using other's work without permission, but no one is profiting from it (those who are would be the ones I'd start a witch hunt after) and are technically promoting their work with every costume.

So where does everyone stand?

To rip? Or not to rip? Or should we all just R.I.P. ?
 
I think it's like certain other legions and distributing copies of a certain brand of white armor. It's bought and paid for, and illegal enough there are all kinds of layers of security to protect the distributors, but there is a strong need, and it's unofficially sanctioned by a certain beardy man since... the legion is everywhere even in beardy's own works.

There is a strong need for the stuff, but no modelers willing to do it. I understand small time artist's need to protect their works (less sympathy for a big company that has nothing to lose from fan works), but the makers get backed into a corner of "rip the model for my own private use, or not have it at all" which is sort of a lose lose.

You can find the same arguments used on both sides of the debate. The big thing is the company's view on ripping files, and how big of a deal you make of it. Like the unnamed legion, it's all about how on the down low you keep it. I think companies are not willing to go digging hard for the stuff, but if you privately do things and not go distributing it (distribution is the big nono) then it's a lot more gray on whether it's illegal or not, it's just not worth it to go after a single person.

It's definitely a sticky, controversial topic, and while I don't do it, I understand where those who do are coming from. I usually try and just model it myself, since Inventor and Maya aren't that hard to use, and sketchup is becoming more and more powerful.
 
Well normally you may rip if it's for own home purpose. Its a vague topic actually. Considering every studio have diffrent rules about this.
But seeing that 343 actually knows this place exists and from time to time put pictures of costumes on the waypoint I could probably say that they don't mind. They get free promotion because of it.

I still prefer to model my own things though. Good practice.
 
I know that the win all answer for everyone would just be 'model your own pepakura files', but to no avail, not all of us have the time or skill to pick it up (Yeah, I got the hint Rundown ;) )

And like I said, as long as no one profits it almost becomes promotional. That still being said, it doesn't help when you still have no modelling experience to rip a video game model for your own use.

... This is still bugging me. :(

P.S. If it depends on the companies, where is the information that would says their policy on ripping models?

-Seth
 
I suppose it would totally depend on the game tbh. Some companies viciously protect their intellectual property. Some companies provide editing tools that allow you to extract game content for your own personal use (mods, edits, new content etc). I prefer to make my own (yes, I realise that not everyone can also do that). It is a grey area, because a game model is not a "real life" construction. The conversion of an object from virtual to reality may not be protected by current laws. Fair use will only go so far in protecting you.
 
I for one am against ripping. Not all detail is in the model but is put in the skin. Modeling helps to personalize to your own body.


I know that the win all answer for everyone would just be 'model your own pepakura files', but to no avail, not all of us have the time or skill to pick it up (Yeah, I got the hint Rundown ;) )

And like I said, as long as no one profits it almost becomes promotional. That still being said, it doesn't help when you still have no modelling experience to rip a video game model for your own use.

... This is still bugging me. :(

P.S. If it depends on the companies, where is the information that would says their policy on ripping models?

-Seth

I've been planning for some time now on a quick "how to" video that anybody without 3d experience can resize a pep file on a 3d model of themselves so they know it will come out juuuuuusssst right. It will require Blender, 123D Catch, and a full version of Pepakura.
 
My two cents are this. Rip it, then mod it enough to be yours. I believe the copyright rule is 10%. If you change more than 10% of something, then it is no longer copyright infringement. Though, my percentage could be off.

Now, once you rip something, you will have a very blobby looking item. As King Rahl said, the details are put in the skin. So, once you rip it, you will need to mod it to give it the details that the skin has. Because your end result is modified greater than the 10% (or whatever the number is), it is no longer copyright infringement.

Now, if you try to sell it for too much, you will show up on their radar and they will release a Covenant Dropship full of lawyers on you (think, shielded Hunter team, but with law degrees).
 
Quick question. Why not write to 343 about it. As was previously stated, the company does support this site. I can't see them being jack-holes about it as long as the model has property of 343i written all over it.
 
I for one am against ripping. Not all detail is in the model but is put in the skin. Modeling helps to personalize to your own body.

I've been planning for some time now on a quick "how to" video that anybody without 3d experience can resize a pep file on a 3d model of themselves so they know it will come out juuuuuusssst right. It will require Blender, 123D Catch, and a full version of Pepakura.

I think I've seen 123D Catch before, or at least I 'think' I've seen it. If I'm right it's a program that you can take pictures of any object and it turns it into a 3d model, and when you get that video up, PLEASE LET ME KNOW ;D

My two cents are this. Rip it, then mod it enough to be yours. I believe the copyright rule is 10%. If you change more than 10% of something, then it is no longer copyright infringement. Though, my percentage could be off.

Now, once you rip something, you will have a very blobby looking item. As King Rahl said, the details are put in the skin. So, once you rip it, you will need to mod it to give it the details that the skin has. Because your end result is modified greater than the 10% (or whatever the number is), it is no longer copyright infringement.

Now, if you try to sell it for too much, you will show up on their radar and they will release a Covenant Dropship full of lawyers on you (think, shielded Hunter team, but with law degrees).

I'd be one of the Elites dropping in with the lawyers if a ripped model was 'for sale'. If ever there was to be used a ripped model it should be free. Period.

Quick question. Why not write to 343 about it. As was previously stated, the company does support this site. I can't see them being jack-holes about it as long as the model has property of 343i written all over it.

Something I thought about as well. What would it take to ask the video game producers to sell or get some sort of 'allowed' sticker of sort on the models?

-Seth
 
Having had previous "issues" regarding the Database and it's contents - I've mostly been going off the MSGCUR (Microsoft Game Content Usage Rules) for any potential conflicts that might arise from what we are doing.

The critical line for this discussion is this:
You can't reverse engineer our games to access the assets or otherwise do things that the games don't normally permit in order to create your Items
Sure, if you've modelled it yourself using screencaps - it's fine. But start "reverse engineering" and ripping models - then it's not so fine any more.
However, going direct to the source, and requesting the models from the original creators isn't covered by anything in this - so it's still a possibility to work out an agreement/partnership with MS or 343i. I suspect we'd be under a heavy agreement about locking pep files, and having a "specific user access only" policy if that did happen though.

Just my two cents,
CJ
 
You know it would be quite an idea to get Microsoft/343i to release models of Halo 3, Reach, 4, to the 405th, considering that it might be possible given the 405th's rep, like you said spartan, there would have to be a "no model edit" example, of which is possible to put on (add password to edit), but there would be problems probably with price, since I doubt Microsoft would let any of their work for free, but maybe there could be a trade for promotion, aka having Microsoft's name on all of it.

Does anyone know about the other companies? Like Sony (like Killzone) or Nintendo (Metroid) or any of their subsidiaries like Havoc, Naughty Dog, or any that make models of those in question?

-Seth
 
Up for continuing this discussion, I do agree that the "hand-made" models are much better due to the higher mesh quality instead of map images. I however do agree that if 343 releases password protected models it would be extraordinarily helpful to us. 343 LOVES promotions and at the past few conventions I was BEGGED for pictures with 343 members for promotion. As far as we are concerned, 343's members would love to release files and have us go rampant on game-accuracy. Their lawyers, and microsoft in turn would most likely see a red flag and try to avoid this. Some sort of contract would have to be made, agreed with and so on for this to occur.
 
343 seems pretty lenient on it. And it really seems to make everyone's lives a little bit easier. You don't have to spend a long time modeling or learning (for those who are new) and people get game accurate files. It's like when it rains and you have a muddy car.
 
Well 343 are lenient but models from reach? I've looked for an extractor but none are to be found... ( for pepakura purposes only )
 
Well, if there would be a long drawn out request asking for the 3d files, with signatures of the 405th community, then we choose (or even have 343i ) several prominent members on here to do the unfolds, then have the files sealed.

At least that's what I think would be great :D, but then again, if we did that and 343i agreed there wouldn't be much to originality to models (everyone would use the same ones), and it wouldn't solve all of the problems with lack of models in other games, we have plenty of Halo 1, 2, 3, ODST, and Reach files, with a few files for wars and a growing number for 4, but there isn't any that I've found for Metroid, Metal Gear Solid, (I'd say Star Wars, but I've seen some of those) Killzone, all of the mech games like Armored Core, and countless others.

And also I have a feeling that they would charge for files instead of give them for free in trade for promotion.

-Seth
 
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