RobotChicken's Halo 3 Mk VI Master Chief, Ultra Detail, First Build WIP (many pics)

ShadoKat said:

Also good use of the mat board, it looks like a big time saver.

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I have carpathiavh99 to thank for the use of mat board, as it never would have occurred to me for using it on a project like this until I read about it in his build thread. (Yes, other people here use it also, but his thread was simply the first place I'd seen it mentioned while I was reading...and reading...and reading...several of the threads at this site, and then my brain started racing with all the things I could do with it on my own build.) It is indeed quite excellent for detailing with thickness or for adding rigidity without adding the weight that Bondo or sculpting putty would add.

ShadoKat said:

I do have a question, though... what are these grommets for? Looking back at your reference photo of this part, I don't see how they fit in.

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I'm guessing Bungie renders their game characters differently for different scenarios, because there are many conflicting details on the same armor pieces in various screen-capture photos. Some photos show the detail you mention, while others do not (or it's there but just very faint). I again have carpathiavh99 to thank for a collection of Halo 3 reference photos: http://www.4shared.com/zip/D7NKEWDU/Reference.html? (hopefully he doesn't mind me posting the link here). Many of the photos in this folder show the detail you're questioning, such as this one:



You can also clearly see in this photo how the center detail part pushes in at the bottom instead of remaining flat like the HD pep has it (which is why I rebuilt it so the look is correct).

You've got to take some of those reference pics with a grain of salt. There are some parts of the armor in a few of those pictures that are twisted, or warped weird because the character was moving funny (usually dying). However, in this case, it looks as though you've caught onto a legitimate detail. In every reference photo and Bungie-generated rendering I look at, that dip exists. Looks great!

Thanks - I always cross-reference a detail as much as possible between different reference sources before deciding on what to do. When some photos show a feature while other photos of the same part don't show the feature, then personal preference comes into play. In this instance, the "grommets" (or "eyelets" as they're normally called) appeared in more photos than without, so a "majority rule" approach was taken. Close-up photos of this area in the Halo Encyclopedia also show them present, so I added them.

I've finished a 3D CAD model of the replacement forearms detail and will start unfolding it in Pepakura tomorrow evening. Some of the features were revised from the original plan to try getting it looking more like the photos and consistency with buckles/clips to be modeled later on other pieces. I expect some additional adjustments being needed to the pepped forearms for interfacing with the new parts. (All I require for pep are the object faces, so it's rendered simply in TurboCAD's default blue material.)

Well, I'm reaching Photobucket's bandwidth limitation. Since I'm not the type of person who waits until there's an issue before dealing with it, I'm proactively migrating the images from Photobucket to my Google+ account (which supposedly has no bandwidth limitations and unlimited storage for photos less than 2048 on largest edge). I've already started updating prior posts in this thread to swap out the images, so please let me know if you're not able to see them (because what's the point of a build thread if you cannot see photos of my work!).

As far as the build goes, I've unfolded the gauntlets detail but instead of pepping it I've decided to start work on gauntlets 2.0. What's this, you say? Well, after attempting to start adding various custom details I want the gauntlets to have, I quickly discovered how terribly difficult it is to work inside such a small confined tubular piece. Since some of the detailing to be added would have been easier if done during the build, combined with my concerns regarding the size of pieces and having them fit next autumn, I'm re-pepping them slightly larger. What?!? Re-pepping?!? (Sigh) Yes. Why get all stressed out trying to blindly add detail which ends up looking bad because of difficult access? (Blindly, because once my hand is in the arm opening - with tweezers even - I cannot see what I'm doing as my hand obstructs visibility.) I'd rather spend a couple weeks redoing the pieces properly and have them look decent than deal with the frustration of retro-fitting details (which in the end would probably take the same amount of time as a re-pep anyway) and spending months finishing pieces that end up not fitting because they sadly don't magically enlarge as my son grows. Photos will be uploaded when the gauntlets are re-pepped, and if you thought they looked good before well hang onto your jaw because it's likely to drop when you see the upgraded version...

@rickrtickr: Thanks for the gloves tip. I was finally able to get a set of Gul MadGrip textured rubber gloves from the U.K. (almost everything is cooler over there) and they're pretty awesome. The X-Small is still a little big, but probably not so much next year. With the handplates and custom armor added to the finger tops, these have the potential to be looking sweet.

Work is progressing on the custom-detailed, slightly-larger, re-pepped gauntlets. The first thing being updated is something that has bugged me ever since their initial pepping. The front notched area lacks recessed lines in it, and the terminating notches aren't the correct shape.

The "floor" of this area has been rebuilt using two layers of mat board, one for the panels and a second for the recessed lines. To get a beveled edge on the lines as seen in close-up photos, I swept the mat board's top edge a few times on a piece of 320-grit sandpaper. (Only the edge facing a line gets this treatment - the other sides stay flat.)




The terminating notches are too triangular in the original pep file and should instead look more like the two interior notches. This is fixed by reshaping the notch outline in the pep parts and then scratch-building replacement sidewalls to fit the new shape.




Stay tuned to see the next bit of surgery being done...

Hey man, looks like things are slowly ticking along.. I had one question through this build, though. Is you son involved in the build process at all? I know in the original post you kinda hinted at it and then shy'd away from it. I know i am hesitant to let my 5 y/o daughter help, but i try to let her help as much as i can. I do my work in foam, so i feel it makes it harder.. cutting with razors and using hot glue (ive had several blisters and am trying to avoid them on her). Anyway, if he isnt, i hope you can get him involved in the build. i am sure he would love it. And now ill get off my soap box...

Fantastic build and I'm sure your son is going to be more than astonished with the final result.
It's great how determined you are to make this as game-accurate as possible.

I feel a tad stupid, I was literally just about to say "Why don't you use Halo 3 theatre mode and just zoom in on your character and use that for references?" before remembering that you don't actually own an X360. Which to be honest makes this build even more amazing to me, how you, someone who's never played the game, can see a mistake in a pep file that's probably gone unnoticed for a long time by hardcore Halo fans.

I'll be watching this thread closely, good luck friend!

PS. I want your workstation.

OMG...My streak of back-to-back posts gets busted....Somebody else besides me is reading this thread! lol

joshtried said:

Hey man, looks like things are slowly ticking along..

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Yeah, I know it's slow but 1) I'm in no immediate need to finish it fast (like a con deadline or something), 2) I've seen what rush jobs can look like, and I don't want my build looking like that, 3) I work full time and only get about an hour or two each evening to work on it, and 4) I'm a perfectionist and can't look at a piece that I know is wrong and pretend I don't see it....it taunts me and it must be fixed - and that takes time.

joshtried said:

Is you son involved in the build process at all?

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He gets to play dictator. lol No, actually, he doesn't quite have the skill set at his age to build the pieces properly. (The technique even escapes some adults...) I also don't think it's wise to give him an X-acto knife. The resin is toxic so he watches through a window from inside the house while I do the chemical stuff outside. However, the previously hardened pieces that we've decided will be too small by next year are going to be his copies for filing and sanding alongside me while I'm working on the real ones (yes, he'll wear a dust mask and goggles) so I do try to involve him as much as practical. He calls the shots as to armor version, color, etc. In fact, he's going to have me ruin a perfectly good chest piece by already insisting it's got to have Halo 3 battle damage on it - like cut into it damage. Right now, his moments of excitement are when he gets to test fit pieces. It will be great to see the look in his eyes when the first color coats start going on.

Spartan-420 said:

Fantastic build and I'm sure your son is going to be more than astonished with the final result.
It's great how determined you are to make this as game-accurate as possible.

I feel a tad stupid, I was literally just about to say "Why don't you use Halo 3 theatre mode and just zoom in on your character and use that for references?" before remembering that you don't actually own an X360. Which to be honest makes this build even more amazing to me, how you, someone who's never played the game, can see a mistake in a pep file that's probably gone unnoticed for a long time by hardcore Halo fans.

I'll be watching this thread closely, good luck friend!

PS. I want your workstation.

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Thanks! Zoom in on live screen shots, eh? Wouldn't that be just too easy? It's looking more like a 360 will be under the Xmas tree this year with Halo and Minecraft games, but that doesn't do me a lot of good right now. Anyways, between the encyclopedia, game guide, Google images, and the large action figure (even the toy has the recessed lines in the gauntlets notched area!), I honestly think I have enough references to produce an accurate build. Heck, just building it out-of-the-box would amaze a 9 yr old, so I've got nowhere to go but up in modifying the parts to satisfy my "need" for accuracy. Being able to zoom in on the actual game character to see the details would probably drive me nuts when comparing them to the pep parts. (This is where I remind myself it's a kids costume and will be viewed from several feet away - even mistakes look good from that distance...)

Thanks for looking!

The 2nd enhancement made to the gauntlets is finally complete. All photos I've looked at of the front flat area show it outlined with a trench. (And again, the action figure toy also has a recessed line around this area.) At first I thought I could just simulate this with blackwashing, but with each photo I looked at it became increasingly evident that I'd need to actually cut in a trench for it to look right. Cut it in after hardening? That would be more work than I care to try pulling off, so you guessed it - mat board.





I'll smooth out the corners better with spot putty later on, as well as bevel the trench's outside edge.

Next up, I've been pepping ridiculously minuscule parts for the replacement detail mentioned earlier and they look very cool. But wait till you see them mounted on the gauntlets...

So jealous!!! I wish I had a fraction of your skill! Amazing work I can't wait to see the final product

Thanks! All I did was re-do the unfolding so I could isolate the areas to be modified - in this case, the front notched area's floor was made all one piece so it could be used as a template for cutting mat board (except for custom pieces at the ends due to changing the shape), its sidewalls were all joined together and separated from the arm surfaces so they could be redone in mat board at the ends where I modified the shape, and the front flat area's sides were moved around so they could be cut off and replaced with mat board. Now that the arm surface around the flat area had the outline of that area, I could simply trim it back by 2mm, then glue 4mm-wide mat board strips around the perimeter on the inside (creasing it as necessary to maintain the fold contours of the outer surface), replaced the flat area's sides with vertical pieces of mat board (extending their height to compensate for trench depth), and lastly glue mat board strips for the trench floor. The cool thing about this is I was careful to maintain the flat area's profile - so when you look at it from the side it looks the same as if it was pepped normally without a trench.

Every time I come and check out the new stuff you have made I want to beat my head against my desk. I keep asking myself why I never thought to add in some of the details that you are mentioning. I did that with some parts, but missed the details you brought up on the shoulder and the forearm. I even went through the trouble of remodeling the forearm, and didn't even think to fix the inner detail you mentioned. So far you have convinced me to make some changes to my parts as I move ahead to the detailing stage. I can add in any recessed detail I want to my parts, but it would have been so much easier to model them in. Not sure if it has been asked yet, but do you plan on releasing the inner forearm detail you modeled to the public? Anyways, keep up the good work. I'll be following your build closely so I can pick up on any details I have missed. Also, just a heads up...you're going to have a huh moment again on the thigh.

Thanks for looking, and even more so for commenting.

I can easily understand why most people wouldn't add any extra details to their pieces - depending on the detail it can be easy or it can be a challenge requiring proficiency, and some people seem to barely grasp the idea of pepping itself. Besides, as exemplified by the quantity of completed costumes on the 405th, extra detailing isn't necessary to create a fine-looking costume. But, as mentioned in the first post of this thread, my goal is to build the pieces as close to game-accurate as practical - and that means if I see detail in a photo that doesn't look right (or is absent) on the pep, then it gets added (if I concede that it's distinguishable enough for adding improvement and that the work is feasible). If I was building this for myself rather than for my kid I'd be taking the detailing a lot further, but since this costume will inevitably get outgrown I try to balance practicality against blatant errors simply needing fixed.

I realize that recessed details can be added after hardening, but that means increasing the thickness from the inside to accommodate scribing or cutting (and added thickness = added weight) and I'm also just not too keen on setting my Dremel into pieces that took a fair amount of effort to make. One "oops, dang it" and I'd go from Creator to Repairman. Plus, some areas are so small I wouldn't easily get a Dremel or file in there, and the brittleness of Bondo also adds another degree of frustration as it tends to chip all to hell while working with it (excluding sanding). So, I prefer to do all the detailing with cardstock and mat board. It's much easier to work with and is easily redone as needed without wasting resin and Bondo. And it's because it's so much easier to model them in than to add them later (combined with sizing concerns) that I decided to re-pep them instead of trying to make the first ones work.

Nobody's asked (you can see yourself the small quantity of comments this thread has actually received), so I assumed nobody was interested in the replacement gauntlet detail (like I got it completely wrong or something). However, I have been considering uploading a .pdo of the replacement detail, BUT it's not an easy pep and the parts aren't straight plug-and-play. Pepakura didn't really like the torpedo shapes and several of the flaps are a bit screwy. I cleaned them up the best I could, but they still need modifying when the parts are cut out. It turns out that some of the parts are better off as mat board than cardstock. I'm still pepping prototypes and revising the unfold as I go, and need to add a few more instructional notations to the file before it's ready for releasing. (And I want to be the first thread with photos of the new detail!)

Honestly, I'm expecting a number of "huh?" moments as I move on to the other pieces. Do you have a build thread of your work?

Thanks for taking the time to post a reply - it let's me know my build is actually (maybe) helping out other people. (As in, your desk just didn't have enough head-prints in it yet! Clear some space, because more head beating is forthcoming...)

Edit: The gauntlet (forearm) replacement detail parts are added to the 405th's File Archive with cleaned-up flaps and include the surrounding faces for easier installation. Now you can simply just replace parts in the forearm model with my detail parts.

While working on the gauntlet inner detail this evening I thought, hey - why not write a tutorial with photos on how to assemble them instead of trying to convey the details through annotations in the .pdo! So, I'm taking photos as I assemble the second one (two gauntlets means two detail pieces) so I can show pictorially which parts are mat board and which ones are cardstock, which unneeded tabs get hacked off, which order to assemble the parts so as to not end up stuck unable to reach some tab joints (like I did...), etc. So, after I've got enough of the issues resolved where I feel somebody who didn't build the model would be able to pep it, I'll upload the .pdo AND post a photo tutorial on its assembly in the 3D Modeling forum. I'll have to figure out how to add a .pdo to 4shared.....

I don't mind adding extra detail to my pieces. I actually remodeled the helmet and added in a bunch of missing details based on a few builds others have made. I also remodeled the thigh to make it resemble the game model more. I modified the HD chest file to add in some recessed detail on the back and to modify the depth of some of the pockets. I did rework the forearm a bit, but it was mostly because I hated building the HD file, so I made it a bit more friendly for myself. There are some details I saw on the game models that I chose to leave out (I felt they weren't really practical), but some of what you have done are things that I missed. I was preoccupied with making the forearm more friendly to build and never thought about checking for accuracy. I actually didn't do anything to the shoulder except clean up the unfold, and I added in an extra support piece. That's why I want to beat my head against my desk lol. I was in the position to make the changes at the easiest stage, and I overlooked those parts. Oh well, now I get to do them later on. My work desk can handle the beating, so all I have to do is worry about my head lol.

As of right now I haven't started my build thread. I wanted to wait till I had a fair amount of work done before I put everything up. I hope to get my thread up sometime at the end of next week. I'm using a rather odd method for my build. I actually used each pep piece as a mold. I also don't plan on using body filler for smoothing. I ordered a different product that has similar properties and has a similar weight to volume ratio as the casting plastic I'm using.

I would like to give the inner forearm detail a go. I'm sure building it at a larger scale will help make some of those small areas a bit less difficult. You're welcome for the reply. Most of the time I lurk in the forums because I don't have much to ask about or add to the conversation, but this time I couldn't help myself. I'm certainly looking forward to more of your work.

One last thing. Since your son will eventually outgrow the costume do you plan to turn it into a small statue or something? It would be a shame to make something so detailed just have it sit in a box.

First photo of the gauntlet modified inner detail. Tiny little buggers....

SirPalesAlot said:

I don't mind adding extra detail to my pieces. I actually remodeled the helmet and added in a bunch of missing details based on a few builds others have made. I also remodeled the thigh to make it resemble the game model more. I modified the HD chest file to add in some recessed detail on the back and to modify the depth of some of the pockets. I did rework the forearm a bit, but it was mostly because I hated building the HD file, so I made it a bit more friendly for myself. There are some details I saw on the game models that I chose to leave out (I felt they weren't really practical), but some of what you have done are things that I missed. I was preoccupied with making the forearm more friendly to build and never thought about checking for accuracy. I actually didn't do anything to the shoulder except clean up the unfold, and I added in an extra support piece. That's why I want to beat my head against my desk lol. I was in the position to make the changes at the easiest stage, and I overlooked those parts. Oh well, now I get to do them later on. My work desk can handle the beating, so all I have to do is worry about my head lol.

As of right now I haven't started my build thread. I wanted to wait till I had a fair amount of work done before I put everything up. I hope to get my thread up sometime at the end of next week. I'm using a rather odd method for my build. I actually used each pep piece as a mold. I also don't plan on using body filler for smoothing. I ordered a different product that has similar properties and has a similar weight to volume ratio as the casting plastic I'm using.

I would like to give the inner forearm detail a go. I'm sure building it at a larger scale will help make some of those small areas a bit less difficult. You're welcome for the reply. Most of the time I lurk in the forums because I don't have much to ask about or add to the conversation, but this time I couldn't help myself. I'm certainly looking forward to more of your work.

One last thing. Since your son will eventually outgrow the costume do you plan to turn it into a small statue or something? It would be a shame to make something so detailed just have it sit in a box.

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I find myself now also reworking the unfold of each piece so they're easier to assemble. Also, at the scale I'm building at it really does matter where tabs versus folds are, and on which side of a join the tab is on. I decided to post my work as I go so people could see how all the work was done. I really liked that about other threads I've read (such as Longshot's, Spitfire's, Carpathia's, CerealKill3r's, Thorsoli's, etc.). I'd love to see what details you've added to your pieces.

I've decided to not bother with molding my pieces. It would add considerable expense to the build and it's something I don't really deem necessary for a kid's costume. Once it's outgrown, I'm thinking it should fetch a decent price on eBay. Not much point in hanging onto it when it can't be worn anymore while somebody else could be enjoying it, and that's another reason for keeping the construction costs fairly low.

How do you manage to make parts that clean when they are that small? That must take quite a bit of time. When I first started building things in Pepakura I would use the unfolds provided, but as I built more I found myself changing the unfolds for almost everything I was doing. I think you can get a cleaner result at a faster pace if you tailor the unfold to your liking. I see what you mean about the cone shapes on the end of that detail piece. Pepakura designer does not like smooth shapes when they are that small.

I understand why you would want to spend as little as possible in your build. If I planned on wearing my costume only a few times I would probably not have spent nearly as much as I have already. I do like how those guys did their threads. I actually took a lot of inspiration from a few of them. Since I'm not really that far in my build (mostly due to the method I'm using) I will have plenty of progress pictures to show down the road.