Props Real Steel MA5C

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Loess

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Hoo, boy.
It's been a loong time since I've posted, or even just visited.
Time to fix that.

And do I ever have a big project to come back with.
I've still been thinking of Halo projects, even though I haven't been on the boards.

And the thinking has been starting to include combining some gunsmithing experience, my job as a CAD worker, and my engineering degree to do something very awesome.

I'm going to build a real-steel, live firing MA5C.

I have been staying at the office after hours, and spending lunch breaks at my desk for the last year, and I finally have some models far enough along that it's time to share some screen shots with the folks here.

About a year ago, I was reading about old, unusual rifles, and ran across a video of the internal components of the German FG42 Paratrooper rifle. Seeing how short the action in it is, I started thinking about using it to make a functional MA5. After somewhere north of 500 hours of design time during the last year, I've gone away from the FG42 operating system, to my own custom derivation of a Leader Dynamics T2 rifle.

I've given up on fitting the 7.62x51 NATO cartridge into the rifle that the fiction specifies, since it's just too big to work. (That's where most of the 500 hours went.)
Instead, I'll be chambering it for 5.56x45, since I already have rifles and the reloading equipment for it.

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I'm currently looking at building a custom reciever around a stock AR15 barrel and barrel extension, with a custom bolt carrier and a modified AR15 bolt.
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This design has the advantages of using off-the shelf parts for the barrel extension and bolt, since they have to be cut from tool steel and hardened fairly precisely. It also will use standard GI magazines, to remove some complexity there.

I don't know exactly how soon I'll be cutting metal, since I want to have the models fully complete and detailed before I begin ordering parts.

I suppose I should add that Yes, this is legal where I live. It will be semi-auto only, to stay legal to build and own.


Glad to be back, and I hope to stay around from now on.
 

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Hi loess, I saw your thread and am instantly hooked, a project like this for me is a dream (I mainly work in foam and pep), you've got a sub for sure.
 
Dude, you are saying you are planning to make a Real Life MA5C/D Assault Rifle. Pentagon would want copies lol
 
Dude, you are saying you are planning to make a Real Life MA5C/D Assault Rifle. Pentagon would want copies lol

they have weapons like it.

Yeah, this really isn't any better than a standard AR15. In fact, because of the awkward feeding system, it's much more likely to have problems, and the loading and unloading sequence are significantly more complicated.

I'm still going to build it, though.;) I actually have been sketching out concepts for the M60 shotgun and M6 Magnum, I have a crazy idea of going to a three-gun shooting competition as an ODST.

******
Begin today's design progress!

I've started adding the gas piston to the rifle, if you refer back to the Leader video I referenced in the first post, you should recognize how it works.
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The piston and charging handle go through the trunnion block, and push on the bolt carrier. The piston will push the carrier for 0.75 inches, which puts enough energy into it to completely cycle the rifle. The charging handle also goes through the trunnion, but it will slide back through the entire travel length of the bolt.
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The bolt and carrier lock in place much the same way that a standard AR bolt does.
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These screen shots also show the extended feed ramp.
Since the rifle is so short behind the magazine well, I had to figure out a way for the bolt carrier to pick up a round from the mag, and pull it forward into the feed ramp, then on the next cycle, the bolt will pick up and load the round in the feed ramp as it is grabbing the next round out of the magazine.

This will do for getting ammo into the chamber, but it's going to be more susceptible to feed stoppages.

Thanks for commenting, guys, I should have more tomorrow.
 

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Well, that updating 'tomorrow' thing didn't happen, but I do have a bit of progress to show for the last week or so.

I put in some time on the gas block, and the spigot that the piston rides on.
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And then, I threw out the idea of using AR15 parts, and started working on using the 5.7x28 FN cartridge for this, since it is nice and short, so I can do away with the extra feed ramp, and having to pull the charging handle twice to load the rifle. It just seems like it'll work better with a simpler system.

Going to the FN round also lets me go to a system much more similar to the Leader, with a hammer behind the magazine, and on-center in the rifle.
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This also lets me simplify the trunnion, so that the barrel is threaded directly into it, rather than trying to clamp an AR barrel extension into it.
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This does mean that the bolt will be custom, and the trunnion will have to have the locking surfaces and fed ramps machined directly into it. This version will also use custom mags, but standard AR mags would need to have quite a bit of modding done to add the ammo counter sensor.

The bolt and recoil guide assembly will be one unit, like the Leader.
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One benefit to working for a company that does a lot of sheet metal work, is that I get experience with the sheet metal design package in Creo 2.
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I've got the stamped designs for the side plates mostly figured out, but I'll hold off on sending the models out to prototype shops for quotes on stamping them until the models for the whole rifle are figured out, and the mechanical test prototype is working.

I've spent the last few days working to figure out the fire control group, I'm trying to avoid the usual pitfall of bullpup rifles having terrible feeling triggers, so it's taking a bit of time to get that working.

Progress on the models has been going ok, and I've found some nearby shops to do some of the machining that is beyond the capabilities of my shop, things like wire EDM for the triangular cut in the trunnion, and the metal stamping.
 

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Jeez, as a fan of both real steel and their prop counterparts, I am very excited to see this project progress. Good luck with the designing!
 
I've been doing work on the smaller details since the last update, like the fire-control group, which is going to be an AR15 hammer, trigger sear, and disconnector.
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I've also worked on the handguard, lower receiver, and buttplate.
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I've started breaking this up into the assorted subassemblies and weldments that it'll be built up from, so that I can figure out how everything attaches together. There's also some thinking of what exactly some of these parts will be. Some parts are obviously sheet steel, and the upper shroud is probably going to be compression-molded fiberglass, but I haven't completely decided what to make the lower receiver out of. It may be fiberglass, or CNC'd plastic or aluminum. I'm leaning toward fiberglass over a sheet steel frame, since that would be fewer parts to contract out.

It's starting to look like a real thing!
 

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Quite simply, - what you're doing is amazing... a real-life, firing, MA5 assault rifle.

It's the stuff of dreams.
 
Have you considered field stripping? That's the most complicated part of designing any weapon. Its can function like a million bucks, but if its difficult to field strip and repair, sales may drop off.
 
I spent lunch break today setting up and running some FEA simulations of the bolt and trunnion, The good news is that this shouldn't kill me.
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The stress levels came in below the yield stress for hardened and tempered tool steel (104 ksi), so it shouldn't deform the locking lugs, which would lead to the rifle blowing up.

I separated the sides of the sheet metal handguard into 2 separate pieces again, because some quick calculations of the stamping forces for them were up at 90 tons for each side, and I wanted to make sure that they wern't going to be over capacity for the short-run stamping places I'd found.

After work, I spent a few hours working on the fire-control group, trigger linkage, and the internal structure to hold the various lower parts in place.
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Going to take a lot of spot-welds to hold this together.

Have you considered field stripping? That's the most complicated part of designing any weapon. Its can function like a million bucks, but if its difficult to field strip and repair, sales may drop off.

The stock and butplate attach to a pivot pin, and hinge down to allow field stripping it for service and cleaning, shoud be as easy as a normal AR to strip and clean.
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Looks like a rifle!
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It's about time to start getting quotes for some of these parts.
 

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are you going with a mixture of aluminum and steel, or stainless, just wondering due to the weight balance being you would have a heavy end. i can only imagine the outer shell to be a plastic base.
 
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