Halo 4 BR85HB SR (Pic heavy!) - First Major Project

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Speaking of slow progress on animated parts, it turns out that the final section- the stock and upper receiver- are going to be more tricky than anticipated. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, given that it's a bullpup.

I have to make sure that the charging lever and safety work, so they'll probably have their own separate section. The magazine well has to be smoothly operable, so that needs care and consideration, and then from the texture it looks like the top cover and rear bumper are a single unit that hinges up from above the chamber- which is good, because I want the area behind the mag well to be usable space. It may not be one large hinge, but I'm going to figure out something to provide accessibility.

The skeleton piece that I had for the stock is, effectively, useless- or almost useless. I need to cut the whole top-back section off it since that's now one separate solid piece. I'm also going to dial back my overambition for this week and focus on only the area around the charging lever. That will also provide a socket for the small remaining section of stock skeleton to connect to the main body, to which I'll stick the magazine well and then the rest of the stock scales can apply over that. In short, to allow later access, the stock will be three separate pieces- chamber, magazine and sides, and rear "lid".

Interestingly I also noted that all three shots are fired with the charging lever all the way back. I assume this is due to the gas operation of the rifle, but I dunno if this is how three-round burst works IRL. I just know that it's not generally popular. At any rate, it makes the animation easier!

RE: pics, they'll be up as soon as I've Bondo squished the grip area, which is the only thing left from the previous list to do.
 
Thanks, @WhiteWolfLegend! I dunno if I'd go quite that far, but... :p



Thanks! Missed the question here. The ammo counter display is made, as you can see. The replacement projection section will consist of the display unit and some of the side scales of the carry rail as a whole box with the electronics inside and some connectors poking out. The display on this, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. If I can get custom printed/cut transparent vinyl decals, I may go that route.

The scope, I'll be doing a regular dummy version with some kind of reflective blue "display" to attach- probably that transparent blue self-adhesive stuff over foil and the reticle drawn on. That'll get replaced by a second cast scope with the electronics inside. I doubt the electronics will be able to fit into the original dummy scope, it's very tight tolerances which I won't be sticking to on the Mk. I.

So the kit'll ship as a complete, event-ready unit, but it won't be the "definitive" BR85 until a couple months or so later when the more complex electronics can be shipped. Initial cost will just be the $230+shipping. Final cost I'm estimating as closer to $600, but with some luck it could be a little lower. I think that leaves me with a very thin profit margin, but I'm more interested in getting the best possible builds into the wild that I can right now.

The only work I'm envisaging you guys to have to do is some epoxying or drilling and screwing (might be better for dismantling for electronics), the usual trimming and sanding, and some fairly minor filling, particularly along seam lines. No more than one would usually expect from a kit.

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Since I'm on here anyway, I'm going to put this update out there, particularly for @FoxtrotX146 and @Arcanine. I discovered to my horror yesterday that the carry rail somehow contrived itself to be assymmetrical. Considering the stock and placement was all identical I have no idea how that could happen, but in the interests of transparency I want to put it out there anyway. Fortunately it's only really noticable if you're looking close up and dead-on, and paint may mask it even more.

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Here it is at its most visible. The left side here is 3mm further out than the right, which is 6.3mm as it should be. How this happened I have no idea, the scale itself must have warped somehow while gluing it down, because it only goes as far back as the top of the styrene:

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...After which it goes back to normal all the way back to the ammo counter.

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But yeah, anywhere off-axis and you're pretty much fine. The amount of detail overall is a little overwhelming anyway, so I'm sure people aren't focusing on a couple bevels at the front, assuming they're close enough to notice the difference.

Thanks for the reply and the shoutout. I know its late :) I havent been online lately. I appreciate the clarification as I am very interested in this build. I'm liking the progress of this build! I hope to aid in anything. Although I do think that is very demanding price I can't imagine the detail you have put into this! You deserve every one of those dollars. Unfortunately I don't think I would be buying one soon. Maybe in the near future.

Keep up the good work!! Can't wait to see more progress.
 
Interestingly I also noted that all three shots are fired with the charging lever all the way back. I assume this is due to the gas operation of the rifle, but I dunno if this is how three-round burst works IRL. I just know that it's not generally popular. At any rate, it makes the animation easier!

This is most likely do to the fact that they are using 30-60 frames a second animations, and with low framerates, you can't animate the charging handle moving back and forth 3 times in a split second, that would take a very minimum of 7 frames, which is roughly 0.23 seconds in they're using 30 frames a second, and thats clearly not enough, plus there wouldn't be any frames to interpolate the animation, so it would look bad.

Now there are guns that don't move the charging handle back when fired. and firing in a 3 shot burst would not change anything. So since the BR charger moves back when fired, I would assume it's fixed with the rest of the mechanism that loads the next round.

I don't get what they mean by "gas operated" on all the Halo weapons. All assault rifles are gas operated anyways.
 
Thanks for the reply and the shoutout. I know its late :) I havent been online lately. I appreciate the clarification as I am very interested in this build. I'm liking the progress of this build! I hope to aid in anything. Although I do think that is very demanding price I can't imagine the detail you have put into this! You deserve every one of those dollars. Unfortunately I don't think I would be buying one soon. Maybe in the near future.

Keep up the good work!! Can't wait to see more progress.

No worries, you've shown interest so I'll keep you in the loop. :)

Once it's complete, it'll win you over all by itself. ;) Hahah, but not to worry, I can't see anything shipping before mid-February anyway, and it's a first run of five, so there's time for you to decide yet.

I'm also building them so that buyers can roll their own electronics solutions, too- you don't have to only use mine, except maybe with the ammo counter, which I tried to find a straightforward DIY solution for but couldn't. Other than that, it should be pretty easy to stuff whatever you like in there. I'm happy to help with that stuff too.

This is most likely do to the fact that they are using 30-60 frames a second animations, and with low framerates, you can't animate the charging handle moving back and forth 3 times in a split second, that would take a very minimum of 7 frames, which is roughly 0.23 seconds in they're using 30 frames a second, and thats clearly not enough, plus there wouldn't be any frames to interpolate the animation, so it would look bad.

Now there are guns that don't move the charging handle back when fired. and firing in a 3 shot burst would not change anything. So since the BR charger moves back when fired, I would assume it's fixed with the rest of the mechanism that loads the next round.

I don't get what they mean by "gas operated" on all the Halo weapons. All assault rifles are gas operated anyways.

Yeah, that's true. That's probably the "real" reason.

Though personally, I'm inclined to think that like the BR55, the bolt is independent of the charging lever, and it's only the bolt that moves during firing- on the BR55, the charging handle stays forward during firing (apparently, I haven't checked footage) and only gets manually cycled during reloading. "Short-Stroke Gas-Operated Rotating-Bolt" it's called on there, I assume it's similar on the BR85. I'm guessing this is a "thing" somewhere in reality that Bungie artists found, but I haven't run across it yet. It might be complete BS, but sort of makes sense to me, engineering-wise.

Incidentally, since I've been looking at it closely recently, the route of the rounds up through the stock, down to the chamber, back and sideways to ejection on the BR85 is very strange to me. If an IRL rifle like the SA80 uses some circuitous route like that, no wonder they have reliability issues.

I believe that they're just clarifying on the gas operation. It's mechanically possible to have a recoil-operated AR, but because of the extra weight they're not particularly popular (I'm led to believe).

PS: pics coming soon, Bondo squishing is done.
 
Ok, so these pics aren't really very much in order, given that I was back and forth and cycling through various paint drying times on multiple parts:

Original template for cutting out the grip, conveniently has the scale outline on it too

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Final-ish Bondoing

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Final shape

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First side scale on

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Looking good

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Filling in the front- keep out the silicone!

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Mmm, shiny. Still needs some smoothing and one last detail that I kept missing

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Holes in, ready to prime and gloss.

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Bondo squishing the rest of the foregrip so it too can be primed

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A good 2/3 of the way complete, maybe 75%!

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That's a Razer Black Widow Ultimate and 24" monitor. This thing ain't small.

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Bondo squishing and sculpting together the grip area

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Looks good, and the grip can still slot in, just needs sanding and then it's ready to prime

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Some final pics of shiny goodness:

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So yeah. Not only is the carry rail done, but the entire front half of the gun is pretty much finished, bar some finishing work- sanding, Bondo scraping and painting. I have the first two pieces of the chamber area marked out to cut too. HQ update at some point in the next day or two, I'm thinking.
 
Hnnnnng I require this.

I am absolutely astounded by the level of attention to detail in your pieces. Without a doubt this needs to be placed in some sort of showcase once it's done, Elite be damned.
 
Thanks, Noble 10!

Hnnnnng I require this.

I am absolutely astounded by the level of attention to detail in your pieces. Without a doubt this needs to be placed in some sort of showcase once it's done, Elite be damned.

Hahaha, involuntary wordless noises of desire are definitely my end goal here... And have also escaped my lips once or twice while building, too. :D

I'm quite pleased with the LoD, I think it's at somewhere around 98% of the original model so far, by some arbitrary metric. Some things I missed while still working from an untextured mesh, some things I forgot to do prior to some irreversible gluing, some things I can actually go back in and add. Like the clips on the barrel, the D indent on the cooling vent panel, the elongated D indent underneath just in front of the trigger guard, etc.

It seems to me that if you're going to do something expensive and time consuming, you may as well do it right. I mean, it's still my first major project and I'm kinda rusty or unpracticed with pretty much all of it and I don't have all the tools I really need, so that's more "as right as possible", but I don't believe in half-measures. :D

I was always aiming for Elite, obviously, though I wasn't going to say it myself. Seems like bad form. I was disappointed to find out yesterday that it is no more, seems like there should be somewhere for the truly epic builds (though I'm not sure if mine really stacks up there), especially if they use a stable image hosting (hence why I went with attachments rather than Photobucket or whatever- I hate old pic-less threads).
 
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i want this on my Christmas list it i as good if better then the one the had in the last episode of nightfall......take my money!
 
I was always aiming for Elite, obviously, though I wasn't going to say it myself. Seems like bad form. I was disappointed to find out yesterday that it is no more, seems like there should be somewhere for the truly epic builds (though I'm not sure if mine really stacks up there), especially if they use a stable image hosting (hence why I went with attachments rather than Photobucket or whatever- I hate old pic-less threads).

This truly deserves to be an elite build.

I also wish that there still was such a section. I know they removed it for good reason, but it would be great if a better system was implemented, like voting for a build to be elite, or something.

It's smart to keep all your pics hosted on this site, I also like that you compress them before uploading, which should be common practice in my opinion. When it's all done, you can post some pictures from an external site, so there blowen up to full for quick viewing, and of course you can still upload/host them here to preserve the thread. It would be using the best of both worlds.
 
Thanks, Harri51! You're not the first person to compare it to Nightfall, which excites me greatly. :D If you want, I can add you to the list of "interested parties" that I tag in important updates, pricing arrangements, schedules, relevant stuff like that.

This truly deserves to be an elite build.

I also wish that there still was such a section. I know they removed it for good reason, but it would be great if a better system was implemented, like voting for a build to be elite, or something.

It's smart to keep all your pics hosted on this site, I also like that you compress them before uploading, which should be common practice in my opinion. When it's all done, you can post some pictures from an external site, so there blowen up to full for quick viewing, and of course you can still upload/host them here to preserve the thread. It would be using the best of both worlds.

Thanks, man. :D

There's a link thread, but it seems like moving whole threads to a new section would be a better option, if only certain builders had, er, a little more class. I didn't know people badgered mods to move their builds, that's really terrible. Was reading all that this morning.

Yeah, I transfer from iPhone to OneDrive, download the sets of 24 images I want from there, then run them through Photoshop's Image Processor, which is all set up for this so all I need to do is hit ok. That resizes them all to 900px and compresses them a little in about five seconds. The DSLR shots I resize to 1500px, so more of the detail can be seen, since that's the point of those ones. 1500px is the largest I ever upload online... It's kinda pointless to go much bigger with screens around 1920px- physical or virtual- and I do separate closeup detail shots. People can always request specific angles if they want to see something in particular.

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In other news, I've finally wrapped my head around converting the geometry of the charging lever housing to actual cut pieces of MDF, so hopefully I'll be knocking that little section out shortly.
 
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This truly deserves to be an elite build.

I also wish that there still was such a section. I know they removed it for good reason, but it would be great if a better system was implemented, like voting for a build to be elite, or something.

Thanks, man. :D

There's a link thread, but it seems like moving whole threads to a new section would be a better option, if only certain builders had, er, a little more class. I didn't know people badgered mods to move their builds, that's really terrible. Was reading all that this morning.

Can you PM that thread link? I'm mixed about Elite. I think a community showcase would be nice, the politics that come with it are not. Done with more community voting and no commentary whatsoever by nominees would keep it purer and put less pressure on the mods. There was a long period where no one got promoted to elite. Meanwhile, a debate ensued about how 'elite' are 3D print projects and the site went down several times almost killing off the community. Then, suddenly VShore100's and my threads got promoted and the Elite section seemed to be back as the community regained strength and inertia. That was great for us, but there were equally great or greater projects that had completed in the mean time or at the same time that were not promoted. That does take some of the shine off. That was shortly before the site was purchased.

It was always bad form to try to nominate yourself for elite. Some people have bad form. Your work should speak for itself.

On that note, the BR is really sharpening up really nicely. I particularly like the scaling on the pistol grip. Try using a high-build primer for your wood parts. It fills in imperfections, but is designed to be easy to sand. It will fill in any remaining wood grain and is easy to cut details into. It's much better than going one more layer of Bondo or glazing putty.

Redshirt
 
Can you PM that thread link? I'm mixed about Elite. I think a community showcase would be nice, the politics that come with it are not. Done with more community voting and no commentary whatsoever by nominees would keep it purer and put less pressure on the mods. There was a long period where no one got promoted to elite. Meanwhile, a debate ensued about how 'elite' are 3D print projects and the site went down several times almost killing off the community. Then, suddenly VShore100's and my threads got promoted and the Elite section seemed to be back as the community regained strength and inertia. That was great for us, but there were equally great or greater projects that had completed in the mean time or at the same time that were not promoted. That does take some of the shine off. That was shortly before the site was purchased.

It was always bad form to try to nominate yourself for elite. Some people have bad form. Your work should speak for itself.

On that note, the BR is really sharpening up really nicely. I particularly like the scaling on the pistol grip. Try using a high-build primer for your wood parts. It fills in imperfections, but is designed to be easy to sand. It will fill in any remaining wood grain and is easy to cut details into. It's much better than going one more layer of Bondo or glazing putty.

Redshirt

PM sent. I agree entirely- community voting, zero builder input- not even nomination. 3D printing is a tricky one, because there's a lot of non-manual skill involved in the conversion of mesh parts to printable NURBS parts, or even modelling something from scratch in the first place, if it's not available. And it's not like there isn't a huge amount of trial and error in putting it together and then the finishing work required. At the same time, even knowing the work that's gone into them, I look at 3D prints and think it's kinda "cheating", the precision of parts and straightness of lines.

...But I'm considering putting together a 3D printer next year sometime, so I can cheat too. :p I'm currently thinking it'll be more useful as a supplemental technique on small, complex geometries and aiding functional parts, rather than a start-to-finish technique.

Scaling is Valspar stone rather than Rustoleum or Krylon simply because it was cheap at Ollie's sometime, like a dollar or something. Looks identical to me. I was looking at filler primer, but I heard that it really rounds out too much detail, and I was concerned it'd just turn the whole thing into an amorphous blob. If that's better or easier than my recently developed technique of "Bondo scraping" almost every surface (I suppose it amounts to the same thing, since it's all talc filler), I'll definitely look at that route again.

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I'm getting ready to go to New York for a week, so after tomorrow, progress is going to be limited at best until after the new year.

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HQ Update, as promised, with a new location!

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3D printing is a tricky one, because there's a lot of non-manual skill involved in the conversion of mesh parts to printable NURBS parts, or even modelling something from scratch in the first place, if it's not available. And it's not like there isn't a huge amount of trial and error in putting it together and then the finishing work required. I look at 3D prints and think it's kinda "cheating", the precision of parts and straightness of lines.

...But I'm considering putting together a 3D printer next year sometime, so I can cheat too. :p I'm currently thinking it'll be more useful as a supplemental technique on small, complex geometries and aiding functional parts, rather than a start-to-finish technique.

I was looking at filler primer, but I heard that it really rounds out too much detail, and I was concerned it'd just turn the whole thing into an amorphous blob. If that's better or easier than my recently developed technique of "Bondo scraping" almost every surface (I suppose it amounts to the same thing, since it's all talc filler), I'll definitely look at that route again.


Excellent points about the amount of work required to sort a 3D model. When you build a prop or suit from Pepakura, it's your work, though the artist and/or unfolder need credited for their part. But credit for a 3D print really falls more toward the renderer than the paint and finish artist when they aren't one and the same.

Still, a 3D printer would be nice. Prices are tumbling. I'm going the opposite direction. I love metal props. I have a milling machine on order with plans to convert it to full CNC so I can cheat too! Wish I'd had it years ago.

The high-build primer helps to crisp things up to a point. If you cake it on, it fills things in. The spray can lets you pick and choose what areas get thick and thin. Once dry, it's easy to shape details with a file or scraper,

Your BR is shaping up to be a big beautiful beast.

Redshirt
 
Excellent points about the amount of work required to sort a 3D model. When you build a prop or suit from Pepakura, it's your work, though the artist and/or unfolder need credited for their part. But credit for a 3D print really falls more toward the renderer than the paint and finish artist when they aren't one and the same.

Still, a 3D printer would be nice. Prices are tumbling. I'm going the opposite direction. I love metal props. I have a milling machine on order with plans to convert it to full CNC so I can cheat too! Wish I'd had it years ago.

The high-build primer helps to crisp things up to a point. If you cake it on, it fills things in. The spray can lets you pick and choose what areas get thick and thin. Once dry, it's easy to shape details with a file or scraper,

Your BR is shaping up to be a big beautiful beast.

Redshirt

Yeah, I tend to agree. 80% of the "manual labour" on a 3D print is before the printer's even turned on.

I just came from that direction... I priced out a CNC mill build and it came to around $2500 thanks to the 220V 1.5kW spindle, beefy steppers (minimum NEMA 34) and relatively "cheap" Chinese ballscrews. A 3D printer I can have ready to go for under $500 since the frame is light and the steppers are just NEMA 17s. I can just microstep a lightweight chain drive or use lightweight 6mm ballscrews, no big deal. Hobbyist robotics stuff, not industrial. Huge difference, but ultimately the end product is more or less the same, once it's cast.

I agree about metal props though, wholeheartedly, so I'll definitely be swinging the pendulum back towards subtractive manufacturing for one-offs once it becomes economically feasible.

Hmm, interesting. Makes sense, I'll give it a try in the new year.

Yeah it is! :D Probably slightly better than it would have been thanks to your input.
 
Final update of 2014:

Progress on chamber was slightly slower than anticipated, there was a lot more "figuring out" for a mechanical part.

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Figuring out the styrene detail for January:

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And a couple pics I meant to shoot for the HQ update but forgot, so I quickly threw them together this morning. Here's some proper scale:

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All for now. I'll be around to chit chat, talk shop and answer questions though!
 
That does look great! Nice progress.

Redshirt
 
now I just want to know one thing the bolt do have it so its moving or is it locked in place.
 
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