Replica ordnance
- Thread starter Spaceinvader
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Spaceinvader
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I wish, but a grinder would be very accurate and would rough. It's not as hard as it used to be to machine Tungsten, but a few shops have told me not many civilians use tungsten for stuff, and normally wouldn't need it machined. The shops don't bother having the tools then.
Spaceinvader
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Good luck with sanding, I can run a hacksaw blade along it and not a scratch. If j want it done right it's gonna cost me :/
RobTC
Member
That's gorgeous. It's gonna be awesome. But yeah, where tungsten itself will cut hardened steel, and I'm sure you've seen "tungsten carbide coated" tooling for extra longevity, milling actual tungsten requires solid tungsten carbide bits, which are a little expensive. But then you add in the fact that you have to buy three or more times as many because it chews through cutters like nothing else. Custom coolants are a good idea if the shop has the ability to switch them out, but most don't bother.
So yeah, it's a super pain in the ass. Might be worth looking into aerospace shops if you can find any that do small one-offs.
Spaceinvader
New Member
Yeah it's a nice piece. I never thought of asking an aerospace company. Will have to see if there is any around me or in Canada/US. Thanks for that! Otherwise I have no idea what to do. Still looking for someone with a 3D printer too!
RobTC
Member
Some heli rotor parts are tungsten, probably some jet engine bits and pieces too. As I'm sure you're aware by now, it's crazy heavy, so it's used sparingly. There's a tungsten-steel alloy that's a bit better for tooling since it's more ductile so the chips are longer and less blunting, but I don't know what it's used for specifically, whether it retains the strength/hardness/density of tungsten or what. Might be worth looking into as well, since I'm sure if it was workable for military purposes they'd already have tried it.
So unless you actually know a machinist who works there, it's not like you can go up to Boeing or Lockheed, but there are other smaller shops who do some contract work, I'm pretty sure. Whether they're easy to find or not, I have no idea.
I think I'm drifting back away from the 3D printer idea and back toward the subtractive laser/mill end of things, since I keep seeing 3D printed parts that I just don't like the look of and finishing work is the worst. So if you still haven't got them made by the time I put whatever it is together (assuming I actually make some disposable/investable income sometime soon, hahah), I can probably cut some fins while I'm doing calibrations and tests and stuff.
Spaceinvader
New Member
It is a super heavy duty metal. Used for high stress and high heat purposes. And yes used in many internal jet engine parts. Only thing that is harder and commonly used would be Depleted. There is a reason it's used as a KE projectile
My father works in the military contracting business so maybe I could get some help from him. Don't know of any aerospace companies around here so
will do some searching.
And please if you can help me and make some fins, I can pay for it and measurements etc. The sabots need to be 3D printed as they are made of plastic from what I have read. The simplest thing to make it I thought.
My father works in the military contracting business so maybe I could get some help from him. Don't know of any aerospace companies around here so
will do some searching.
And please if you can help me and make some fins, I can pay for it and measurements etc. The sabots need to be 3D printed as they are made of plastic from what I have read. The simplest thing to make it I thought.
Spaceinvader
New Member
That would be bad-ass foxleader! Please do! If you want PM me about it and we can figure something out.
- Member DIN
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Foxleader, I'm sure the implication that I could misuse government equipment and do this project was unintentional. The taxpaying public rightly takes a dim view of that.
Spaceinvader, interesting projects! I do not know of any shop, military or civilian, with the capacity to turn tungsten. The tooling is so rare and expensive that it just doesn't work for shop-scale work. Only larger production shop could consider it.
My recommendation, turn your darts in aluminum, steel or copper and then electroplate them in nickel, acid clean the surface, then toss the parts in a metal blacking solution for a few seconds to brown the nickel slightly.
I have a large-capacity home electroplating system from my sports car engine and suspension rebuild. I can plate metal in copper or nickel. I'd be willing to work something out on that if you'd like. I'm still setting up my mill and not really able to help you turn the metal though.
As an aside, if you know someone with a functioning CNC mill or lathe, you could get your sabots cut out of delrin or red ABS. That would be highly realistic in texture.
Good luck.
Redshirt
foxleader
Sr Member
red I was wanting in inset on the matter which you've done. as for the pm I was tried and wasn't really thinking about typing out what I wanted to ask which was I think redshirt might be able to help since he's active air force might be able to get it worked down. aka find a way round it, like you did with your red beam cannon... lol.
Spaceinvader
New Member
Yes it is very hard to find someone to machine it Redshirt. I do know military contracting companies can, like whoever made that 25mm dart, but I doubt I could get help from them. I went with tungsten as I wanted to make it as realistic as possible (which may not have been the best choice now lol). If I cant get it machined I will look at steel. I will message you if I change my mind at any point and maybe we can work something out.
I was thinking of getting the sabot s machined, maybe that's what I will do then. It would look like the real plastic sabots look like (used on rounds like 20mm APDS for the navy CIWS guns). A rough outer appearance where you can see the lines of the milling machine etc. I think 3D printing could get the same look but I am not sure. I will look into it more.
I was thinking of getting the sabot s machined, maybe that's what I will do then. It would look like the real plastic sabots look like (used on rounds like 20mm APDS for the navy CIWS guns). A rough outer appearance where you can see the lines of the milling machine etc. I think 3D printing could get the same look but I am not sure. I will look into it more.
Spaceinvader
New Member
Have been talking to a few friends about using a lathe to make the sabots and it would be very hard to do. There needs to be locking rings inside them to lock onto the dart. So I think 3D printing is the way to do it, it will be cheaper and easier.
- Member DIN
- S113
have a vector version of the Misriah Armory Logo I drew in Illustrator. If you need a dxf file for any reproduction purposes i would be happy to assist. Its a simple export for me really.
- Member DIN
- S980
No worries Foxleader. I can certainly understand his desire to make these as realistically as possible.
You'd certainly be able to buy a decent hobby-grade 3D printer for the money you'd spend to get a tungsten dart machined. While I appreciate trying to manufacture your replicas as realistically as possible, including the weight and balance, I think the closest you can economically come is a machined copper hollow dart and fill it with lead before plating it in nickel. The lead would bring the weight up to that of a tungsten dart. The nickel would give the color and hardness to the surface.
I think you are correct on a printed sabot being the easiest to achieve and being realistic if printed in red plastic.
You mentioned in some of your earlier discussions about 9.5x40mm needing copper applied. That's something I could possibly help with.
Redshirt
RobTC
Member
They have a machine lathe and not a wood lathe, right? The tool to cut internal rings is, I believe, a double ended boring bar. Or maybe just a regular boring bar, I dunno, I'm not yet a machinist. When used with the spindle locked, they do keyways, and when turning, O-ring grooves and that kind of thing. Depends on the internal diameter you need, I suppose, I've seen ones that apparently hold 1/4" tools but I don't know if the bar itself will fit in a narrow hole like you need. Should simply be a case of watching the numbers on the axes, then cutting it open in as many fractions as required. Maybe a machinist who has experience making small model engines (glow, steam, etc) might be ideal for that kind of task.
Ideally it'd be a job for a 4-axis (or more) CNC mill, which is what I'm planning on building when I can (at a lower power than originally planned, though, and far more modular for upgrades). That'll cut those grooves without needing the hole boring first, since you can use a ball nose end mill of the appropriate diameters (along the penetrator) to "groove" 1/3 or 1/4 (depending on fin count) of the penetrator hole, then switch to a small square end mill whilst rotating the part about the radial axis of that cut channel to do the grooves. Then just hog out the remainder of that fraction of the sabot.
That may or may not make any sense to anyone else, but I can see the machine sequence in my head, anyway. It would be pretty quick and easy, I think.
Spaceinvader
New Member
I will search around for awhile longer to get the tungsten machined, spent 25$ on the rod already so might aswell.
I just spent time talking to a friend and I've got the sabots worked out, he has a 3D printer and will try a few designs for me.
AsgardianHammer, I would be very interested. I will engrave it on the bottom of the casing when I find one.
And yes I would really like to make it as realistic as possible. It's gonna be a real pain but if it works out it will be fantastic!
RobTc please PM me, I am very interested in anyone that can help with this. I would be interested in a few sabot designs and how to make them.
I just spent time talking to a friend and I've got the sabots worked out, he has a 3D printer and will try a few designs for me.
AsgardianHammer, I would be very interested. I will engrave it on the bottom of the casing when I find one.
And yes I would really like to make it as realistic as possible. It's gonna be a real pain but if it works out it will be fantastic!
RobTc please PM me, I am very interested in anyone that can help with this. I would be interested in a few sabot designs and how to make them.
Spaceinvader
New Member
Anyone here good with making 3D printer files? Have been trying to make the sabots so I can get them printed but I just cant manage to figure it all out. Help would be appreciated!
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