Updates for the 405th in 2015! ALL PLEASE READ!

Obviously I don't represent the 405th, but there are no clear-cut criteria that I've seen, so it's open to interpretation. As such, here's my understanding/assumptions:

100% accuracy is definitely not required for a Tier 1 classification. That's the "You've done a bit more than paint some cardboard boxes, but you're still using hot glue and yet to figure out how to cut circles from foam" kind of thing. Basically it just has to be recognisable as Halo armour, which is pretty easy with the resources available on the 405th. Something where you go "Hey, I like your Halo costume!"

Tier two, Hero costumer, is primarily gained through mechanical means- you have to be a highly proficient builder, with no lumps and bumps and voids in your finish, foam seams filled, circular parts actually circular (yes, that is a pet peeve of mine), pepakura very clean, carefully resined and glassed, helmets well smoothed out with Bondo, preferably compound curved vacuformed visors but not necessarily, straight lines straight, etc. Paint job decent. Something where you go "wow, that's clean, nice job".

Tier three, Legendary costumer, is in your finishing work. Your building is already of an excellent quality and high degree of accuracy, no one's even bothering to talk about that- it's all about your presentation. You've finished the surface perfectly, it's smooth and glossy and solid, perfect for laying down the paint job. You've thought about your character and their history, and your decals and weathering show it. You've used the correct techniques as appropriate, from airbrushing to sponging; your metallics are spot on, your weathering is perfect, you have lights where there are lights and overall it looks like it could have come out of, say, Legacy Effects.

That's the impression I get, anyway. It'll mostly go smoothly, I think, builds are generally easily categorisable (I do it already myself in my head when browsing). The tricky parts will be when a build is close to one of the boundaries. The judges will have to be able to explain with some technical detail why they've placed the build where it is, and if it's on the south side of the boundary, exactly what shortcomings led to it not quite making the grade, and what still needs to be done to bump it up, if it can be.

RobTC said:

"You've done a bit more than paint some cardboard boxes, but you're still using hot glue and yet to figure out how to cut circles from foam" .

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but what if that's all you got to work with I mean I've seen some pretty good builds done that way. heck I've got builds that because I improve each time I do it. so why couldn't others get to tier one without all the cost and do it this way.

oh and before you ask I've done some events in my odst suit and people loved it and it was made of cardboard.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Nor is the 405th, from what I gather. Much like screenplays, armour is easy to start, hard to finish. So simply attaining Tier one is something of an accomplishment. The intent- note I say intent, because I'm unconvinced this will be the result- is simply that the higher tiers are rewards for harder work.

If someone builds a Harbor Freight special from scratch in two weeks flat and shows up as a Class C Representative, that's all well and good. But what about the people who spend 6 months and $800 prior to the con on their vision of perfection? What about the person who doesn't have the money for custom laquers and a vacuum pump, but works for two years making something of the same quality from cheaper materials? Do they just get a pat on the back too?

There's equally a good argument to be made for "but we can SEE that the suits are awesome, why do we need to inject a sense of competition into what's supposed to be a "safe" hobby?" so I'm not coming down on either side of the fence.

I guess the overall point is just that getting into the club at all is supposed to be the primary accomplishment, and the other two tiers are icing on the cake for the obsessives. Whether that's a good thing or not, I have no idea. If no one bothers with the club sign up process and just turns up to cons with 405th stickers on their armour as usual, then there's the answer. But only time will tell.

All I am going to say is patience and input. For me it is a done deal with my wife Ashuraa involved I know her. I know that she will push for the best possible balance. Ive had the pleasure of talking to Art in person and I came away from it with the opinion he wants the best for the community so his choice for our initial leadership is well thought out and chosen. So that being said I wait to see what develops.

now I like the regiments as they are, halo guys can find each other simply, but when we move to the new system I think we'll get overwhelmed by the 501st and others, and don't say we won't there three platoons of them in Alabama alone. not to leave out the G.O.W., density troops, or others we have.

and a side note our map with locations will that be moving with us or is it being left behind?

foxleader said:

but when we move to the new system I think we'll get overwhelmed by the 501st and others, and don't say we won't there three platoons of them in Alabama alone

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...what's the 501st got to do with the 405th...?

you'd don't want to know lots of bad blood from day one at least here it is.

foxleader said:

you'd don't want to know lots of bad blood from day one at least here it is.

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Remember that little conversation you and I had? Time to put that into action.

The 405th and the 501st have nothing to do with each other save that we're part of the MPS LLC. There won't be any 'bad blood' between the 501st and us since, logically, we won't be having anything at all to do with each other. And, if by chance the groups happen to cross paths at a convention, I'm willing to bet that both groups will be both friendly and professional towards each other - there are heavy sanctions in place for trouble makers, assuming there any at all.

yeah say that to the mob that was running me and three others out of that car show. and we didn't say anything bad. plus it wasn't until Chris pulled his jacket off and they seen the 405th t shirt didn't they start getting pushy and then ran us out saying. "that it was 501st not 405th that should be the head costuming groups." and I think it was only them that are like that too. but still its made me a little stand offish about them. plus I haven't gone to any cons with out a five person team since then just in case.

Given that they also have a chain of command and presumably a strict code of conduct given their status and connections, you should probably have followed up with their superiors- average grunts might want to throw their weight around and act like tribal morons, but going up the food chain I imagine that kind of mentality disappears fast.

If you want to better represent your particular clan (interesting how the idea of "clubs" have already introduced this concept of "us" and "them, is it not?), you need to take the moral high ground. Ultimately, it's all just nerds in glorified Halloween costumes trying to have fun. It's not curing cancer or exploring space; not that important, in the grand scheme of things- some proper perspective should be maintained.

foxleader said:

yeah say that to the mob that was running me and three others out of that car show. and we didn't say anything bad. plus it wasn't until Chris pulled his jacket off and they seen the 405th t shirt didn't they start getting pushy and then ran us out saying. "that it was 501st not 405th that should be the head costuming groups." and I think it was only them that are like that too. but still its made me a little stand offish about them. plus I haven't gone to any cons with out a five person team since then just in case.

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That's tarring a very large majority with a very large brush due to the stupidity of a few, and you could stand to take a step back and realise that speaking ill of an entire group simply because of a handful of stupid people is equally as damaging as what those people did.

Don't condemn or speak ill of the entire 501st community due to the stupidity of a few idiots. Naturally, you're going to have a few bad eggs in any community - that's just probability at work - but there are rules and processes in place to ensure that any poor conduct is weeded out in due course. FANGS would probably be able to tell you more due to her involvement with the 501st - she might even be able to carry a report for you, if you'd be willing to push it - but please. One isolated incident is no reason to condemn an entire group. I'd strongly encourage you to re-think your prejudices.

I wasn't saying all just this group in Alabama. and the fact they acted better at an airshow where we were located seem to show they know where we stand because we got to talking to them after the show and to find out the ones that started it were anti halo people, and that if we were to show up to an event they were at that they would move to a safe distance so we won't clash unless planned... aka paint ball in a maze and at said event. so things aren't as bad as they were "its just the two universe don't work to well together." their local co said.

Keep in mind you have many 405th members who are also 501st members. Please keep that in mind and avoid, as Chernobyl mentioned avoid "tarring a very large majority with a very large brush due to the stupidity of a few". There are many who love Halo costuming as well as Star Wars, Mass Effect, etc. =)

Movie Props has NOTHING to do with the 501st. Art isn't even a member of the 501st. The only member of the staff that is, is me. The 501st hasn't been the only costume group in town for years so I'd be really surprised if some groups still felt they were. However, as has been mentioned, there are people who are going to behave that way in EVERY group. It's not a special characteristic just of the 501st, no matter how much folks want it to be true. 99% of people in any group, just want to have fun doing what they love as much as they can. So let's move past comparing ourselves to other groups or worrying about turning in to other groups or worrying about involvement at events with other groups. We'll sort through any issues that may happen, which if they do, are going to be isolated personality clashes and not this group vs. that group. The worst thing any group can do is start off with disliking another. This costuming sandbox is only so big. And I'd honestly hazard a guess that the issue or concern was that the 405th had no rules and that's always concerning to a group like the 501st. That has changed/is changing as you all know and this group is going to be far more respected because of it. And if you do happen to have an issue with the 501st at an event - be the bigger person(s). Take the high road and let me know. Also let them know, if it's appropriate without escalating the issue, that they are more that welcome to contact your XO FANGS. I will gladly work to bridge whatever gap there may be. But it's important that we always take the high road. We don't want to damage our reputation with event organizers or with the public so always keep that in mind. These are far more important things for us to preserve over winning a we got here first battle with another group of plastic space men.

foxleader said:

I wasn't saying all just this group in Alabama. and the fact they acted better at an airshow where we were located seem to show they know where we stand because we got to talking to them after the show and to find out the ones that started it were anti halo people,

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Then doesn't that tell you how isolated an incident this is?

There's no reason to throw the reputation of the 501st into doubt over the stupidity of a few members who don't like Halo. That's fanboyism, nothing more.

"its just the two universe don't work to well together." their local co said.

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Whoever said that is an idiot. There is literally zero reason for there to be any animosity between two groups of costumers, regardless of their passions. We're here under the common purpose of showing off our love for our respective hobbies - not to stand around arguing about the merits of each.

Regardless of whether you like Destiny, CoD, Titanfall, Marvel, DC, Halo, Star Wars or Star Trek - we respect the likes and dislikes of others, even if we disagree with those likes. To quote Miss Hall:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

501st and 405th showing love to each other and looking epic at a local convention.

just be glad we don't have a member on the cost play summit board yet the 501st does and they gave on heck of a speak about how the 501st was about to grow faster then any other group do to the new movies but that's only do to the movies but this is all I heard during all that.

foxleader said:

they gave on heck of a speak about how the 501st was about to grow faster then any other group do to the new movies

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That's not boastful, that's a flat fact. If I had the data, I'd be able to plot a chart showing the influx of new members to coincide roughly with the release of each Halo game, give or take perhaps a few months. We've all seen the 'building XYZ for ABC Launch!' threads - every time a new Halo game is announced, or comes up to release, we have a flow of fresh faces wanting to cosplay in gear.

With Star Wars being as big as it is, it's not difficult to image the sort of pull a series like that will have on the budding costumer communities.

foxleader said:

just be glad we don't have a member on the cost play summit board yet

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There's always the opportunity.

was going to because it was coming through alabama but when it comes time for me to tell about the 405ths plans I might say more then I should I'd leave that up to some else, because I'd start off about how much we grown or the decade then on to the fact we're because a group with understanding of other groups. then I'd look at the whole board and lay some brass tacks down, letting them know that when we plan to do something it may not turn out the way it was said because we got a big monkey on our backs making sure we stay in line. bungie let us have some room to work, and so is 343i, but once halo is done who's going to keep it alive, us because that's were we stared that's where we stand, and that's why when the chips are down we will stand together shoulder to shoulder ready for whatever comes our way, and then take questions.

This irrelevant discussion of 501st vs 405th is derailing the thread. This thread is about informing 405th members about the transition coming, and that alone. Move your debate to a new thread. Many of the admins present have that power. Please use it now.


405th has experienced many changes over the years. Along with SpaceMeat, I too was here before the Dark Times. The idea of "encouraging" people to be a member for more than a few months and have more than 50 posts is not new. That's been something we've had since the "New Recruits" section was still titled the "Noob" section. Years ago, when I first started my suit, Phoenix Team was alive and kicking. However, only 3 of us completed suits. Those three? Active members of 405th. When the Dark Times rolled around, bugging the site with malware, I looked to FB. SpaceMeat invited me to join the Pacific Regiment. That was before Regiments were a thing on 405th. While there, I learned that a community could thrive on a system without sections. People just posted, and they posted everything to progress photos to Con meet-ups.

The important thing we need to remember is community. First and Foremost. 405th is no stranger to change. We can't grow without it. Just keep encouraging each other like we have been for years.

The one question I would like to bring up is this. There are those of us who have retired our suits and may not complete a new one until next year. Am I still involved? Yes. I'm currently working with Ben Wheat in teaching new recruits how to build armor. I both lurk and post on both FB and 405th.com. Earlier it was stated that handlers are involved but don't get the spotlight like others with suits. That's true. But are they any less a member? No. In fact, I think many events couldn't function without them. So here's the question: What defines an Active Member?