What Software for Fixing/Smoothing/Editing STL Files?

So I got Simplify3D and in a lot of ways it's very cool, and FAST, but having a problem that I'm hoping kaween or peterthethinker (or anybody else who uses the software) can help with. No matter what I try, there are always 3 layers of supports printed before the part actually starts printing (raft with 0 space to part, or no raft) and so the first part layer droops due to nothing beneath it. I had to abort the print job and I'm now stuck trying to find a way of getting the part's first layer actually touching something...anything - build platform, raft, support structure, etc. It doesn't matter whether I enable a raft or not, elevate the model with supports or have it right on the build platform, use supports with spacing of zero - no matter what there are ALWAYS three layers of no material directly under the part's first layer, which of course results in a bad print. Any ideas?

that soundsVERY odd. I dont use it BTW I just use flashprint. I asume its the same SW as the dremel one.

No, the Dremel slicer is awful, and S L O W. I really like S3D, but just need to figure out how to get a layer immediately under the first part layer so it's touching.

My brain is in "slow-mode" currently, so I'll need to be sure I get this straight :
Your printer is putting down 3 layers of support first, and you actually want a "immideatly to bed" with a skirt around ? Yes ? (.... which is how I use Simplify3D to allow nice fitting of multiple part printjobs).
Here's what my slow brain fails to grasp or I simply misunderstand what you're syaing :

1) "there's always 3 layers of support printed before the actually part starts printing". (okay, I get that)
2) "the first part layers droops due to nothing beneath it". Eh ? What about those 3 layers then ?

Or do I have to understand "your printer prints "starting 3 layers above the printbed surface" instead of ON the printbed ?

If so, my first idea would be check bed levelling, which on my prusa is a pure mechanical callibration of the Z-axis.
Second would be looking at experimenting with the Z-offset. https://forum.simplify3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2210

I expect you're using the Idea builder profile that comes with S3D ?

I'm probably misunderstanding something here. If so, just asume I'm currently too daft to understand your explenation. but I'll try to help you as good as I can.

But simply said, if you throw a G28 code at your printer, is the nozzle "floating above the bed" then too ? After such a command, your hotend should be able to "hold down a single piece of paper" between itself and the printbed. (printer control ---> G28 in command line ---> send). If you can slide a piece of paper between nozzle and printbed without any trouble at all, there's something wrong with the Z-Axis for sure.

In worst case, you could export the G-Code and send it to me, I'll run the G-Code on one of my printers using S3D to see what happens. I'll use the P3Steel Prusa for that as it's a cartesian printer like your Dremel is.

Or you could do that too : take that model, export the G-Code and see what happens if you print it with your specific printer's Dremel slicer or download Cura to see if the problem is inside the G-Code or not.
Not sure if you've ever played with Cura, but it is a breeze to use and to set up. Quality is a bit "meh" sometimes compared to S3D -especially on small details with nozzles of .30 and smaller-, but it's a solid piece of software in terms of stability and the quality is pretty good when using "standard" ,40 nozzles.

Don't worry, we'll get there. But I admit, I've not yet come accross that problem either. ****load of others yes (which I all got solved in the end), but not that one.
My only openstanding issue with S3D remains that raft-sepperation is broken since version 3.x. This went like a breeze in 2.X, starting 3.X the only way to have some kind of easy raft sepperation is to print the raft at 100% (contradition maybe), but compared to raft sepperation in say Cura or even the older 2.X versions raft sepperation is downright terrible. (Yeah, although I try to avoid it as much as possible, I used rafts sometimes. The Prusa can print up to 330mm in heigth here, and I've had models toppling over if their footprint is very small and it can't be solved by rotating the part and reslicing it into multiple parts is an even worse option ...)

In the mean time you'd do good to contact S3D's support just in case. Who knows, maybe they borked up something in the predefined Dremel profile ?

I'm convinced you'v already checked this, but just to be sure https://www.simplify3d.com/support/tutorials/rafts-skirts-and-brims/

Also just to be sure, your part IS 100% flat on bed and not slightly rotated over the X-axis ? (Again, probably not just asking)

Myself, I'm currently optimizing my main printer to use PETG using S3D.
The first prints I did with that stuff and S3D came out so bloody nice and smooth I'm pretty sure I'll abandon PLA printing for most stuff, and the added strength of the PETG will allow me to use it instead of ABS in 95% of the cases.

kaween,

The build platform is level. I've had no problems with printing the helmet light domes sliced from Dremel, and the hand plate raft from S3D prints without issue as well. I'm confident it's a slicing issue and not a printer issue. You misunderstood the issue slightly - regardless of whether I try to print the part directly on the build platform (no raft - first part layer directly on the build platform), or use a raft with zero spacing, or place supports between the build platform and the part with zero spacing, 3 layers of material is always generated AROUND the part before the first actual part layer. This is causing a 3-layer void to exist everywhere the part is supposed to be directly touching something. Here is a cross-section of the slice preview to show you what I mean:



At first I thought it might be just a discrepancy between the slicing preview and what would really happen on the printer so I sent one to the printer last night. It printed the raft just fine and I was getting a bit excited. But after the raft finished, 3 layers were printed for supports (which are not directly beneath the part's first layer) and then the next layer does the support's 4th layer and the part's 1st layer. With a 3-layer void between the raft and the part, it droops. I have the raft space to part set at zero.

I contacted S3D support last night and I'm happy to say they replied this morning asking for a factory file so they can debug. I sent them both the STL and factory file so hopefully this can be figured out and I can get back to printing this. It's estimated to be about 19 1/2 hr printing time and I was wanting to have one done this weekend, but doesn't look like that's going to be happening now.

Ah, okay, that makes a lot more sense. I was reading and re-reading your initial post and just couldn't get my head around it.
Just out of curiosity, exactly what version of S3D are you running ? And it only later occured to me you're probably running the OSX version ....
Looking forward to see how this will work out.

Still in the mean time you could take a close look at Cura. From what I'm hearing from you, it will be better than the Dremel software is any day.

Simplify3D version is 3.0.2, that's what installed when when downloading after purchasing. I'll try out Cura this afternoon. If the S3D issue isn't resolved by their support team within the 2-week love it or money back period then you can guess where that will be headed.

Trying to set up Cura, and the Dremel Idea Builder isn't listed for selecting a machine profile so I need to configure it manually (not impressed). Too many other things going on today for messing with that right now, as it will take time to dig up the specs for manual configuration.

Update: I got the model sliced using Cura and I have considerable doubts regarding its printability when reviewing the layers preview. (The layers view mode is quite lacking too, with no incremental stepping through the layers, only a slider bar.) Interestingly, the same model and same resolution settings yields 569 layers in S3D but only 563 layers in Cura. I'm going to give it a go on the printer and abort if the generated supports end up not working. Based on the layers preview I'm suspecting it's not going to work. I do hope to be incorrect about that.

Well, all that work for nothing. The Dremel printer isn't recognizing the GCode output from Cura. Dremel seems to be using a proprietary .g3drem format and .gcode files aren't recognized by either the printer nor the Dremel3D software. Hopefully S3D support will come through with something to get this model going. I'm astounded by the many people who are able to 3D print with how cruddy all the software seems to be.

I heard back from Simplify3D tech support and their explanation is features smaller than the extruder width (i.e. upside-down sharp points) cannot be printed due to their width being smaller than what can be printed with the specified nozzle size. Therefore, the layer preview displays only what's capable of being printed. In my opinion, if a part layer pulls back due to unprintable features and a support structure is present under the feature, then the support material should be automatically extended to meet the specified distance from part layers - part LAYERS, not part MODEL. So, I'm now experimenting with different model orientations to achieve one having no "points" facing the build table.

As for the Dremel slicer, it's got issues and I've contacted their tech support regarding this:

Got a reply from Dremel - it's funny, their response was a recommendation to use 3rd party software for slicing, such as Autodesk Print Studio (which I downloaded and is only slightly better than Meshmixer, by the way) instead of their own Dremel3D software. Seriously. Slicing the hand plate takes about 45 minutes with Dremel3D, about 40 seconds with Print Studio, and about 5 seconds with Simplify3D - all with the same detail level. Now that I'm more fluent with Simplify3D I'm finding it's very fast for prepping a model for printing and I can accomplish in just a few minutes what was taking me hours with other software.

40 MIN! My print PC is a 1.6GHz core 2 duo laptop... Flashprint * the stock software * takes at worse a min or two to slice a complex print.

something tells me the dremell OEM software is not based on the full flashprint program.

40 minutes ???
Eh ?
While I agree S3D is faster than your average slicers, 40 minutes sounds just plain wrong and I agree with Peter, that's not normal.
Especially for something as handplate which for all intents and purposes can't be THAT complex ?! Because bigger parts (like the gun I'm printing right now) take about 30 seconds to slice on a I5 HP 2760P Elitebook with SSD over here.
The fact S3D does your model in 5 seconds only can mean something is broken in the Dremel Slicer.

Also, the Dremel not working with Cura ? I nearly fell off my chair there and honestly had a hard time believing it, but after some checking yes sadly you're right.

FlashForge-which is where your Dremel got its DNA from indeed uses x3g or in your case .g3drem, and both can't directly work with Cura.
Grrr. How on EARTH ?
Not only doesn't it work with Cura (unless you're going the long way using Octoprint as inbetween as suggested by some Dremel/Flashforge users), it also fails to work directly with Slic3er for the same reason (.... the're solutions for that so it seems : http://www.3duniverse.org/2014/01/05/using-slic3r-with-a-flashforge-creator/ .... which may be a handy source of info for you at some point in time) and for the same reason it probably will fail in Repetier too allthough I have not checked that.

Cripes. And I thought my decission going for a self-build RepRap based machine would have turned out to be the "less supported" type of solution leaving me high and dry when it came to it.
I now feel a bit guilty for suggesting Cura and causing you to loose time on that route, the idea of it not working on the Dremel/Flashfor never even crossed my mind.

As for S3D, I knew about the "too small details will not be previewed nor printed" thing but I failed to realize that was going on there.

I agree with the "state of the industry" sentiment regarding the quality (or lack of) of the software : the mere fact Dremel advise is "use a 3th party slicer instead" is downright deplorable and would enrage me no-end, especially since their firmware doesn't allow you full freedom in term of slicer choice.
So, compared to other solutions, you've bought a A-branded machine with a price tag to match, and their support simply says "use some other software" ?

If that would have happened here, the result would have been a broken window caused by a flying freaking Dremel.

what is odd is that I run what amounts to the same machine. Bsides the heated bed and 2 noz they are the same.
The dreamer so far has had none of these sliceing issusues with stock software.



RobotChicken. Ive printed at 100 Micron a Halo3 handplate. It took a few min to slice about 2H to print

BTW how many Polys are in the one you are trying?

peterthethinker said:

Ive printed at 100 Micron a Halo3 handplate. It took a few min to slice about 2H to print

BTW how many Polys are in the one you are trying?

Click to expand...

72,082 triangles. It's no exaggeration about the Dremel slicing. It took a full episode of Star Trek The Next Generation for it to slice the model. The same model took about 5 seconds in Simplify3D, and with no layer defects. If I knew then what I know now, I would have paid a little more and bought a dual-extruder printer instead of the Dremel.

Frankly I had NO clue the dremel was this bad. I assumed it was the same as the dreamer with no heated bed and 2 noz. for at the time 200 bucks less.


I know tosssing money at mightnot work but If I was at this point I would see how the mainboard is used in it. perhaps a new motherboard and * make* it a flashforge dreamer.
or heck if it lets ya . flash the dreamers firmware on it . I know one extruder might glitch the software . a resistor to fake a temp on that mainboard location and the missing bed

Yeah I too was under the impression that bar the heated bed/dual extruder thing, the two would've been virtually interchangable.
I've done a quick check for possible alternative firmwares for the Dremel but came up empty.

Anyhow, Robotchicken is definitely not the only one being slightly peeved with the Dremel slicer when I read the stuff here https://www.3dhubs.com/talk/thread/has-anyone-modified-dremel-ideal-builder-print-abs

Personally, if I had the money and I could buy any printer below 2000USD, I'd probably go for the BCN3D with independant extruders but at 1600€, that thing was way out of my league.
As for dual extruders, I still can add a second extruder to my P3steel if I really want in the future. (it's bound to happen at some stage, who am I kidding).

But the best upgrade I've done so far on the P3S was the enclosure I build around it : now the thing can print 24/7 without keeping anyone out of their sleep and my warping issues with PETG (let alone ABS) are a thing of the past.