Vacuum forming thickness

trintlord · Mar 11, 2008

What would be a good thickness for plastic in vacuum forming if it was to be used as the siding of a warthog

.

Me and genericname (he's new here but not to proping and effects) plan to build a warthog and scorpion, life-sizxe, drivable, and all. just no guns...

We do not want to make the whole thing of steel so are thinking either of cold casting large pieces or vacuum forming the flatter plates and then just put them together, like legos

.

if anyone wants to help on this just pm me.

-TrintLord

FinnishSpartan · Mar 12, 2008

TrintLord said:
What would be a good thickness for plastic in vacuum forming if it was to be used as the siding of a warthog .

Me and genericname (he's new here but not to proping and effects) plan to build a warthog and scorpion, life-sizxe, drivable, and all. just no guns...

We do not want to make the whole thing of steel so are thinking either of cold casting large pieces or vacuum forming the flatter plates and then just put them together, like legos .

if anyone wants to help on this just pm me.

-TrintLord

You dont vac-form the pieces... they are not durable enough.
You have to make the pieces out of compressed fiberglass or steel, those are the only options for you.
you can also cast using special plastics (like smooth-on ROTO) wich are very durable.

-Fin

ish

Dark Rogue · Mar 12, 2008

I'm thinking i'm gonna have to agree with Finnish on this one. Vacuformed pieces wouldn't be thick enough able to act as a car body, even with a high thickness.

NZTK · Mar 12, 2008

Actually, a lot of cars use thermoformed plastics these days, a lot of bumpers are done that way also light covers on rally cars are vac formed, usually in about 4 or 5mm ABS. ABS gets quite expensive the thicker it gets though and the large panels would require a pretty hefty table. I think you might be better making patterns with mdf for moulding, then pulling fiberglass copies. search for the Fibreglast forums, there is a lot of auto body info there.

Loess · Mar 12, 2008

A guy on instructables has some video tuts on large scale fiberglass moldings for an aerodynamic shell over a bike. You should be able to adapt the methods to your body panels. That's what I was planning for my 'hog.
(not going to be building it any time too soon though, no time for design work... :cautious:

)

Here's part 1 of his molding tuts http://www.instructables.com/id/%5bVideo%5...aking---Part-I/

FinnishSpartan · Mar 12, 2008

NZ-TK said:
Actually, a lot of cars use thermoformed plastics these days, a lot of bumpers are done that way also light covers on rally cars are vac formed, usually in about 4 or 5mm ABS. ABS gets quite expensive the thicker it gets though and the large panels would require a pretty hefty table. I think you might be better making patterns with mdf for moulding, then pulling fiberglass copies. search for the Fibreglast forums, there is a lot of auto body info there.

that's true, but have you ever seen how easily the cars bumbers brake? I mean i kick and BAM! broken.
There is a reason why they dont use that plastic for the full body... Bumbers are supposed to be cheap and replacable in case of a crash. Besides the manufactering cars.

Also rally car bumbers are made to be very cheap and light because there is a high chance that the rally will crash... meaning that its better that the piece breaks of properly from the car when crashed.
Finland has won the rally world championship 14 times (france 2nd with a total of 5)
Rally and formula 1 are big things in finland so i know alot about them (even driven rally many times.)

-Fin

ish

link4044 · Mar 12, 2008

try to get ABS plastic that would work, thickness maybe 1/8"

AoBfrost · Mar 12, 2008

Vacuum forming thin plastics works best, they will adhere and take in better detail, but .90 abs plastic is what everyone uses for stormtrooper armor and other props when they vacuum form, I think westerfields armor uses .65 thick, not sure though.

The thicker the plastic, the stronger, but the less detail. The thinner, the more detail, but less strength for your case being a warthog body.

It might work if you'd fiberglass reinforce the inside, but making the body out of fiberglass would be much more economical.

trintlord · Mar 12, 2008

any detail missed while forming will be added later. We do not need it to be incredibly strong considering this will be more for show than actually driving everywhere, same with the scorpion.

We were thinking vacuum forming only because we could get some plates (low detail) done fairly easily and then build onto them with fiberglass and such.

after NZ-TK posted about mdf we figured we might include a layer of wood under the thinner plastic for strength as well.

What would be a good material to build the initial frame out of?

FinnishSpartan · Mar 12, 2008

If youre going to do the same thing as bungie did with their warthog, it's not going to end up being the wall broken...

trintlord · Mar 12, 2008

we don't inted to be hitting anything with it

elussya · Mar 17, 2008

Personally- and speaking from a level of experience mind you,

You *CAN* use thermoplastics/vacuum form the parts for the warthog.

The process is simply different- you would have to Fiber-reinforce the plastic sheets,
and HIPS (High Impact PolyStyrene) is entirely acceptable. It is typically referred to
as FRP or fiberglass Reinforced Plastic. It is done for things that need to be certified
for food or sanitation reasons. Examples include hot tubs, Bath tubs, medical equipment
and other such stuffs.

A quick and dirty explanation is as follows:

Create your buck
Vacuum-form utilizing HIPS (My preferred plastic)

Once Part is trimmed:
You *must* first roughen the surface of the plastic lightly- I utilize sanding blocks of a
very low grit (usually used for stripping surfaces).
Next, fiberglass the under-belly of the piece much the same as you would for anything
with Pepakura/etc, HOWEVER- utilize Urethane Resins.

Why urethane Resins you ask?
It flexes well- and bonds chemically to the High Impact Poly-styrene. Otherwise, you'll
end up with nothing more than a pretty, glossy fiberglass piece that will pop out at it's
earliest convenience and frustrate you to the ends of the earth. ;-)

An example of the amount of durability you will have with this method is (mind you the link isn't the best as I'm
not sure it's truly the same method of which I speak- but the strengths are fairly similar to our results):
http://www.cranecomposites.com/PDFs/6909_corp_tech.pdf

NZTK · Mar 18, 2008

Vacuum-form utilizing HIPS (My preferred plastic)

QFT!

yes my friends, styrene (HIPS) is awesome, ABS is overpriced and its chemical resistance makes it horrible to work with. Also, always vacuum form in black styrene, white styrene is for pussies lol (actually the real reason is it takes paint better and you dont have to worry so much about scraping it and loosing the look of your prop)

Vrogy · Mar 18, 2008

AoBfrost said:
Vacuum forming thin plastics works best, they will adhere and take in better detail, but .90 abs plastic is what everyone uses for stormtrooper armor and other props when they vacuum form, I think westerfields armor uses .65 thick, not sure though.

The thicker the plastic, the stronger, but the less detail. The thinner, the more detail, but less strength for your case being a warthog body.

It might work if you'd fiberglass reinforce the inside, but making the body out of fiberglass would be much more economical.

I want to see 7/8" or 5/8" plastic being vacuformed.

Methinks you forgot a zero.

Rob · Mar 18, 2008

Hi we use

.060 for LARP and Halo and some Stormtrooper
.090 for Stormtrooper and LARP Chest Plats and some COMBAT armor for the SCA and Horse armor and USCM Armor
.100 COMBAT armor for the SCA

ABS is High Impact Plastic like Foot ball pads. It is strong enough to be hit in full contact sword fights it can handle Cos Play!

WarHead9705 · Apr 25, 2008

Rob said:
Hi we use

.060 for LARP and Halo and some Stormtrooper
.090 for Stormtrooper and LARP Chest Plats and some COMBAT armor for the SCA and Horse armor and USCM Armor
.100 COMBAT armor for the SCA

ABS is High Impact Plastic like Foot ball pads. It is strong enough to be hit in full contact sword fights it can handle Cos Play!

Robs right. Great Job man

AoBfrost · Apr 25, 2008

Vacuum forming usually uses thin plastics .90 gauge abs is what most people use, some use .60 abs.

Still though, it isnt enough to hold itself and be a real vehicle, you'll need to reinforce it heavily with fiberglass, and lots of it.

colmon 9 · Apr 29, 2008

AoBfrost said:
you'll need to reinforce it heavily with fiberglass, and lots of it.

Or carbon fiber

tubachris85x · Apr 29, 2008

colmon_9 said:
Or carbon fiber

Thats true, but for making both a warthog and a scorpian tank full sized..thats going two really expensive projects. Plus, you will need some pretty large vaccum bags and ovens...although you could subsitute the oven for longer vaccum time until the resin cures...

Vacuum forming thickness

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