a survey for the experts to help the newbies...

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Deathbox

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i dont know if this has already been asked, if so, im sorry for the repost.

either way, ever since i started Papercraft (which has now become Iron Pepakura), i have been using Elmer's Rubber Cement to glue the pieces together. a little glue on one piece, a little glue on the other piece, wait a few, then stick them together. i hear about different adhesives used from different people. i have been doing papercraft for over a year now but only recently have i done more with pieces other than put them on a shelf (i.e. fiberglassing).

so far, rubber cement seems the best for me, but i have heard of people using tape, super glue, glue sticks, hot glue, etc, and i have had no problems with the rubber cement when it comes time to put the resin on. these questions have been on my mind for a while now and i am curious as to what the premiere Pepakurists use on their projects over all from start to finish.

im sure there are other questions i forgot to ask, im pretty tired, but if there is other tidbits of crafting info people want to share, please do so. we newbies could use any help we can get from the experts!

so my questions are these:

1.) what adhesive, or combination of adhesives, do you use to connect your Pepakura pieces when making a piece and how do you use them?​

2.) do you use a different adhesive method if you plan on using fiberglass or Bondo on the piece, if so, what are they and how do you use them?​

3.) do you use scissors, hobby knife (Xacto Blade) or something else to cut your pieces out?​

4.) do you cut out all pieces and them begin assembly or cut the pieces out on the fly?​

5.) how many coats of fiberglass resin do you put on the outside of your pieces before you begin fiber glassing the inside?​

6.) when fiber-glassing the inside, do you cut the pieces of the mat to fit the areas you are covering or do you use small pre-cut pieces of the mat and have them overlapping randomly?​

7.) when fiber-glassing the inside of a piece, have you ever tried to use something like a spray adhesive to hold the fiber-glass mat in place before applying the resin and if so, what?​

8.) how many coats of the fiber-glassed mat do you do on the inside of the piece for strength?​

9.) with pieces such as the Iron Man and War Machine armors, when a piece needs to be cut, such as the face places, how do you cut them and do you cut before or after fiber-glassing the inside?​

if anyone thinks of anything else that that they are curious about how other people do, ask away. everyone knows how they do things, and it may work for them, but it is always good to learn new tips and techniques.

thanks for any information anyone can provide! and thank you to all who have helped to make it possible for anyone to own their very own Iron Man armor!
 
1. I use elmers all purpose glue, cheap, easy, no mess!
2. Elmers is fine when coming in contact with bondo and fiberglass resin
3. Xacto Blade all the way
4. Cut, assemble, cut, assemble, cut, assemble and so on!
5. 2-3
6. Small pre cut
7. as much as you want
8. now that I cant answer!

And that is my answers to all the questions asked!
 
i dont know if this has already been asked, if so, im sorry for the repost.
They've been asked before. A lot.

so my questions are these:
what adhesive, or combination of adhesives, do you use to connect your Pepakura pieces when making a piece and how do you use them?​
do you use a different adhesive method if you plan on using fiberglass or Bondo on the piece, if so, what are they and how do you use them?​
do you use scissors, hobby knife (Xacto Blade) or something else to cut your pieces out?​
do you cut out all pieces and them begin assembly or cut the pieces out on the fly?​
There's no right answer to these questions. Some swear by hot glue, I swear by Elmer's Glue. Go figure. Whatever works for you, go for it.

how many coats of fiberglass resin do you put on the outside of your pieces before you begin fiber glassing the inside?

when fiber-glassing the inside, do you cut the pieces of the mat to fit the areas you are covering or do you use small pre-cut pieces of the mat and have them overlapping randomly?
how many coats of the fiber-glassed mat do you do on the inside of the piece for strength?

Read this tutorial.

with pieces such as the Iron Man and War Machine armors, when a piece needs to be cut, such as the face places, how do you cut them and do you cut before or after fiber-glassing the inside?
With a pair of scissors.
 
i understand what you are saying Ral, but it was kinda a survery thingy so people could list how they, themselves, do things to give newbies some techniques.

now im curious about the Elmer's white glue method. i know it dries harder than rubber cement.
 
ok, you guys win. i tried Elmer's regular white glue and it does kick some serious ass. it dries faster than i thought, is stronger after drying than rubber cement and is easier to work with than i thought. however, rubber cement does allow for peeling the pieces back up for replacing them if you mess up easier. i think ill use both. thanks for the help.
 
Hot glue is good because it dries in about 1/3 the time as elmers. Downside is it's less forgiving and you will burn yourself at least once putting stuff together. Works for me though. Faster is happier for me. I'll spend enough time with the epoxy putty and sander later on.

It's all very much a preference of taste on a scale between fast and forgiving. It's different for everyone.
 
1.) what adhesive, or combination of adhesives, do you use to connect your Pepakura pieces when making a piece and how do you use them?

I use glue sticks. They are fast-drying and have a great hold. Plus you can peel if off carefully if you screw up.

2.) do you use a different adhesive method if you plan on using fiberglass or Bondo on the piece, if so, what are they and how do you use them?

No.

3.) do you use scissors, hobby knife (Xacto Blade) or something else to cut your pieces out?

Scissors, because it's quicker for me and I have a sharp edge I can bend tabs on if it's a longer tab.

4.) do you cut out all pieces and them begin assembly or cut the pieces out on the fly?


I work in groups of parts. I'll cut out all the pieces for an ear, for example, and then assemble the whole thing from bigger pieces.

5.) how many coats of fiberglass resin do you put on the outside of your pieces before you begin fiber glassing the inside?

Just one is enough, really, but sometimes larger, weaker pieces require additional coats. I really only do it to give the outer sculpting medium something to stick to.

6.) when fiber-glassing the inside, do you cut the pieces of the mat to fit the areas you are covering or do you use small pre-cut pieces of the mat and have them overlapping randomly?

Everyone has a technique, but the way I was taught was to have small shapes pre-cut so you can work in short stints. When I use fiberglass cloth, I'll usually work in two sizes: 5" by 5" squares and 2" by 5" strips. When I use fiberglass mat (stronger), I'll usually only work in 2" by 5" strips and occasionally I'll even go down to 2" by 2" squares for tight spaces..

7.) when fiber-glassing the inside of a piece, have you ever tried to use something like a spray adhesive to hold the fiber-glass mat in place before applying the resin and if so, what?

I'll quickly brush a thin layer of fiberglass resin onto the area I'll be working on. That way the resin soaks into that side of the paper and also provides enough adhesion for the cloth/mat to stick to while I continue to brush resin over the cloth/mat. Keep it simple.

8.) how many coats of the fiber-glassed mat do you do on the inside of the piece for strength?

If it's to be a worn piece (one of a kind), I'll go with either two layers of cloth, OR one layer of mat. Cloth is weaker due to the regular weave, while mat is stronger because of the random array of fibers. Plus, mat tends to be a thicker sheet, so it essentially is two cloth sheets thick.

If it's to be molded, most of the time I'll just use one layer, because the outer bondo layer often provides additional strength. Also, I find that just brushing in another layer of fiberglass resin onto the one layer of cloth does provide a little more security, but when you're molding it, you generally don't need it to be rock solid. Why waste resources?

9.) with pieces such as the Iron Man and War Machine armors, when a piece needs to be cut, such as the face places, how do you cut them and do you cut before or after fiber-glassing the inside?

Generally my pep builds get molded, so the question doesn't apply for most of my work (since it'd just be the resin cast that'd be cut). But if it's a stand-alone piece, such as an Iron Man helmet, for example, I'd pep it, fiberglass it, bondo it, and then cut it prior to fine detailing. So it'd be mostly sculpted before I cut it. And that's how most of my work would be done. Even a large unwieldy piece such as a Spartan upper body would be sculpted as a single unit before I made any cuts. That way I continually see it in "big picture terms" and don't have to worry about fitting pieces back together again. Doing this is also a bit of a safety feature too. Sometimes fiberglass can deform as it continues to degas over time. Degassing can often take days, even weeks to complete, and during that time if the piece is not properly supported, the weight of the piece can cause it to deform, which would make aligning your pieces again impossible. So allowing it the maximum time to cure (even while you bondo it) is best.

When I cut, I draw my cut mark and then make the cut using a dremel cut-off wheel.

Additionally, pepakura is only one tool I use. Pepakura should not be the be-all end-all means of prop building. I believe that if you want to have a firm grasp of prop building, you need to learn to sculpt and build via traditional methods (or in the very least, learn to be able to construct a model out of some medium that doesn't use pepakura). Also, understanding the model, it's basic shapes and its details is critical. Often times you'll see a pepped model that was built by a "build by number" system, where every line has been folded because "that's what the program says to do." However, most of the time, unless it's an actual beveled shape it doesn't need to be folded. Having an understanding of where you'll take the pepped model after the paper stage is important because it will save you time and energy in the folding stage, and it will also help keep the model in the proper proportions. Folding every single line gives the model dozens of weak points that allow gravity to deform the paper model just under it's own weight.
 
1. Elmer's white glue. I have a plastic dish I use to pour a little out to let it tack up a bit (less time to dry) and use an old nail file to apply.
2. Elmer's works great with fiberglass.
3. X-acto knife with a no. 11 blade.
4. Cut out the piece of the main part of the pep I'm working on, then score, then assemble.
5. One coat outside, for small and medium peps, two for large.
6. Always use small precut pieces, easier to handle.
7. Never used a spray adheisive.
8. One coat of fiberglass cloth/mat.
9. After the piece is hardened. I use a dremel with a cutting wheel.
 
Thanks for this thread! You're right, everyone does it differently, and I LOVE hearing about all the different methods, techniques, and viewpoints for this stuff. Sure there might be a sticky (which is also VERY valuable), but reading other people's personal experiences and getting a conversation out of it makes for a much better learning experience. It's like reading a manual versus talking to someone who's done it... Anyway, back on topic, I'm not an expert, but I hope I can contribute anyway... Over the last couple years at the 405th, I've experimented a lot with other people's techniques, and this is what I found.

1.) Plain old white (Elmer's) glue (the joys of which I see you've discovered). I put a small dot of glue on a small, trowel shaped, scrap piece of card stock, then brush it on the tab. Put the tab where you want it and pull it away, getting glue on the other side. Let sit for a few seconds and press it back together. If the piece gives me enough space to maneuver, I'll take a pair of tweezers with a nice, flat head, and use them to gently clamp the piece to the tab, and pull, running it along the tab line. (That part might not have any benefit, really, but it gives me the feeling of sealing or zipping it up, and after that it doesn't separate.)

2.) Nope, no need.

3.) YES! Used to use scissors, but I recently graduated to x-acto knife, and I'm finding I prefer it.

4.) I've done it both ways, but it's easier for me to find pieces while they're still on the page. Sometimes I score before cutting, but I usually cut, score, then assemble.

5.) Two or three, depending on how stiff the second coat made it.

6.) N/A (I don't know why, but fiberglass scares me)

7.) I did try the spray adhesive thing once, but I was using muslin, not fiberglass. The resin didn't soak through it very well, and it left a lot of weak spots where the muslin bunched up. I probably did it wrong.

8.) N/A

9.) Still experimenting with that. I've seen a lot of people say "dremel with cutting wheel" but I personally found it difficult to make good cuts with the wheel, and ended up using a fine-point grinding bit, probably in a way not recommended by the manufacturer. It was slow, but it worked, and was much more maneuverable and precise than I could get with the wheel. Again, I probably did it wrong. Or I'll get better with practice, one of the two.
 
I use super glue. Its great because you hardly have to use any and it dries very fast. The one down side is you can't really undo a mistake so you just have to dry fit your two pieces together before you start glueing (is that really how you spell it?). I think this is actually a good thing because it forces you to think how best to put pieces together to get that pefect fit so the end result actually comes out crisper and cleaner.

Also I use an x-acto knife because its a lot more precise than scissors. Even if scissors are faster there is no way you will get as crisp of corners on your pieces (especially around tabs) without an x-acto knife. Also, some pieces are just going to be too small to use scissors on.

As for all your questions on resining, like everyone else has been saying its really all about taste. Personally, its one coat of resin on the outside, rondo/fiberglass on the inside, then bondo the outside. That makes the helmet plenty strong for me. The one thing I would suggest though is to have all your fiberglass pre cut into strips, otherwise your resin will cure while your trying to cut out pieces.


I'm glad you started this thread. Its neat to see all the different ways people do stuff.
 
yeah that was the reason i started it, wanted to see the different ways people do things. i know i have already learned quite a few things in these few posts so far. lets keep it going.
 
I don't know if I'd consider myself an expert just yet, but I am familiar enough with the materials used in armor making that I can answer all of these.

1.)I use various white glues. I don't find it really makes a difference, other than drying time.

2.) Nope.

3.) Scissors.

4.) I usually assemble peps in sections, cutting out pieces as I need them.

5.) I usually coat the entire piece once with a thin layer of resin, and if I'm worried that it'll warp I do another, thicker one.

6.) Overlapping, definitely. Much stronger that way.

7.) I tend to put pieces of fiberglass mat or cloth or such in the pep, then pour resin on it, saturating it, then when I'm sure the fiberglass won't move, I slush it around to strengthen more of the piece at once.

8.) One absurdly thick one, drowned in resin :p

I hope my answers help someone out :)
 
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