Armor For Paintball

[Kroden]

Ok, I'm a newer member here, this is my first post. I came here a while back, can't remember when, when I was wanting to make a master chief costume. But now, I want to try to make it paintball armor. I know many people have tried this before, and everyone responds with 'well fiberglass will break after being hit w/ PBs' or 'ur gonna get hit more cuz ur waring the armor'. Well, it's not meant to be entirely functional. I just want to make it stand up to the paintballs. For now. Eventually, I hope to make a set of 6 or 8 for a super halo paintball match. That's later though.

I just got some fiberglass and resin today. I haven't managed to find a clear answer on how many layers of fiberglass to use or to use matte or weave, so I got a yard of both, for a grand total of $14. Now, this is just for a little experiment, not for all my armor, I know that isn't enough.

I am doing a little experiment, because I really think that fiberglass will stand up to paintballs. I have just taken a few sheets of paper with a few different combinations of fiberglass. Right now, I have one with 2 layers of weave, and one with a bunch of matte. I also tried the left gauntlet pep just to try it out, see if I could do it (BTW, not the best yet). I'm gonna try a few others, one with styrene reinforcement between the layers. I'm thinking about adding more to the areas that will take the largest beating, ie the chest, knees, forearms, and butt.

So I'm gonna shoot each kind with a few rounds, and see if they don't crack and still stand up. Just out of curosity, See the poll, how many layers are on your armor? I am thinking about using a few, not just one and definately not just resin. Please, no comments about how stupid using this for paintball is, I'm aware that it creates a disadvantage. This is jsut for durability testing. But any other comments are really appreciated.

I'll record the tests, and post results and the video here afterwards. The first two tests will be tomorrow, june 17 2008. results will soon follow, and the video after all tests.

EDIT: after the first tests, results are looking good. Fiberglass will stand up to a paintball. So can you use your armor for paintball? Most likely, with enough layers of fiberglass, but we have had some problems with the edges of the pieces. So I won't encourage it yet, but results make us hopeful.


Kroden

-----------------------------------------------------------
Updates to this thread

6/17/08 - First experiment results are in - post #19, page 1
6/18/08 - second experiment results are in - post #30 , page 2

 

[Adulese]

I appluad your use of the Scientific Method to solve this never ending question. I think that hopefully this will solve this problem once and for all. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Seno Ypsamee]

Sorry to say it, but as of what we've seen so far, three words, can't be done. Hopefully you can prove us wrong, but with enough shots, the resin and all will begin to crack and crumble, ruining over $1000 of work. If you can get it to work, awesome, but from what we have so far, it isn't going to happen.

I'd say you'd need AT LEAST 6 for it to stand up to a few rounds, for an all out war... well... you get the picture

Good luck!

 

[SNIPER 118]

Wow this is coming up alot lately good luck

 

[Belakor]

Can you guess what I voted for? (7 FYI )
I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see how you go I firmly believe that the armor will hold up to paintballs, even at point blank range and wouldn't cost any more than my regular armor (because my regular armor is already built to take a beating) If I had gas for my primary marker I'd try it myself

 

[Overlord Ian]

There seems to be lot of post about this lately, try modifying existing paintball armor. But I must aplaud your scientific appraoch, I would like to see your results.

 

[SNIPER 118]

Can you guess what I voted for? (7 FYI )
I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see how you go I firmly believe that the armor will hold up to paintballs, even at point blank range and wouldn't cost any more than my regular armor (because my regular armor is already built to take a beating) If I had gas for my primary marker I'd try it myself

Gas?

 

[Belakor]

Gas?

CO2, Carbon dioxide, the stuff you use to fire the paintballs.

 

[redragon74]

i know everyone says i want i want i want to it but i really think the Recon Helm would be one hella cool looking pball mask that or if you can custom make a sustainable visor, the EVA would be perfect for your field of vision and youd get alot of good shots cause people would see it and be like...w...t......*shot*

 

[UNSC Leatherneck]

I have been researching an approach to this for a while now. There is quite a bit out there on composite work, if you know where to look. Boat builders have used composites in hull construction for decades, and aircraft builders have had great success using fiberglass. The trick to strength and impact resistance is materials selection and fabrication. My plan, once Vrogy's H3 Marine pep is released, is to layup 2 layers of fiberglass on the pep, followed by a foam core material. the core will probably be between 1/4 and 1/2 inch thick (6-12 millimeters). On top of the foam, I planed on 3 additional layers of fiberglass, topped by a .25 ounce kevlar veil. The foam core serves to increase the thickness of the layup without needing an excessively thick fiberglass part. The foam also serves to distribute the force of an impact across a wider area. If you double the thickness of the layup, it will be six times stronger and twelve times stiffer than the original part. This for a fractional weight increase. The kevlar veil serves to provide impact and abrasion resistance while avoiding the cost and hassle of working with kevlar cloth. One reference I found included a hint from the Structural Mechanics Code at Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake was to use a thin layer of Kevlar on surfaces subject to routine impact damage. This method has the potential of keeping up to 90 percent of the strength of a part after impact and had been demonstrated on a number of carbon fiber missile motor cases. Another key thing seems to be maintaining an optimum resin-fiberglass ratio. A 1:1 ratio by weight should give good results. As mentioned in previous threads, resin is brittle. The less resin you have, the stronger the part. I'm looking forward to seeing the results of Kroden's tests, and I can't wait to get started on my Marine kit.

 

[Zenzeigan]

im with seno
yeah sure, it protects you abit
but honetly, why spend SO MUCH money on something that will sooner or later break
comeon, paintballs dont hurt that much, just take it, if uoir gonna do anything make UNDERarmour, on thats shape like youre body to give you more flexibility instyead of some huge external halo suit

the body is pretty pointless considering
1)paintballs dont hurt after a while
2)restricts your movements
3)lowers your speed
4)will break instantly

for the helmet, in a full head helmet that covers the back... you get VERY hot

plus, paintball companys wouldnt let you wear your own made helmet, especially some random motorbike visor, youll get blinded, youd be better off just buying a paintball underarmour suit instead of makin some halo one

and finally, (im not trying to be rude, but alot of people think this)
if you were paintballing with a load of halo gaming nerds, then fine, but msot people dont think halo armor is "cool"
if anything they find it nerdy, in paintballing, when ur getting absolutley owned, and your armor breaks, and it finishes, people will just laugh

"hey, look at that little nerd over there in that suit!"
trust me. it happens.

just learn to take the hits, im trying to save you alot of money, time, supplies, and maybe even your eyesight...

if you wanna read more infomation on the halo paintball idea (which has been thought about like amillion times, not just you), then go to the noob forum and look for a topic called "ODST suite" (spellt like that), some dude also wanted to make paintball armor

oh, and well done for checking your facts before posting, but ill say what i say to everyone,

this is a costuming site, not a protection site

 

[Belakor]

Please, no comments about how stupid using this for paintball is, I'm aware that it creates a disadvantage. This is jsut for durability testing.

 

[Zenzeigan]

yes, my mistake, but i like to get my point across, im not saying its stupid, im helping him save abit of cash

 

[UNSC Leatherneck]

I wouldn't see making a suit like this for the specific purpose of protection, but rather for looks. So now you're not making armor to protect you, but rather armor that is for looks that has to stand up to the paintballs. It has now become COSTUME armor, albeit somewhat functional. BTW, Viper Paintball Scenarios has done a Red vs. Blue scenario game, and I'm sure there have been other Halo themed paintball and airsoft games. About the reference to the heat issue, there are several people working on systems to take care of just that. I think Kroden has exactly the right idea and is going about it the right way. If this works, I think his results should be incorporated into a sticky to prevent the "I want armor for paintball/airsoft" question from being asked.

 

[TexasAggie2011]

im with seno
yeah sure, it protects you abit
but honetly, why spend SO MUCH money on something that will sooner or later break
comeon, paintballs dont hurt that much, just take it, if uoir gonna do anything make UNDERarmour, on thats shape like youre body to give you more flexibility instyead of some huge external halo suit

the body is pretty pointless considering
1)paintballs dont hurt after a while
2)restricts your movements
3)lowers your speed
4)will break instantly

for the helmet, in a full head helmet that covers the back... you get VERY hot

plus, paintball companys wouldnt let you wear your own made helmet, especially some random motorbike visor, youll get blinded, youd be better off just buying a paintball underarmour suit instead of makin some halo one

and finally, (im not trying to be rude, but alot of people think this)
if you were paintballing with a load of halo gaming nerds, then fine, but msot people dont think halo armor is "cool"
if anything they find it nerdy, in paintballing, when ur getting absolutley owned, and your armor breaks, and it finishes, people will just laugh

"hey, look at that little nerd over there in that suit!"
trust me. it happens.

just learn to take the hits, im trying to save you alot of money, time, supplies, and maybe even your eyesight...

if you wanna read more infomation on the halo paintball idea (which has been thought about like amillion times, not just you), then go to the noob forum and look for a topic called "ODST suite" (spellt like that), some dude also wanted to make paintball armor

oh, and well done for checking your facts before posting, but ill say what i say to everyone,

this is a costuming site, not a protection site

whoah whoah whoah..... "break instantly"?

If a 3.2 gram paintball traveling at 285 feet per second were to hit fiberglass armor and shatter it, that would equate to extensive tissue damage and some penetration on uncovered body parts.

thats absurd.

Again the average weight of a premium grade paintball (which are the heaviest) is around 3.2 grams. if its accelerated up to 285 fps and hits instantly (point blank) thats going to equate to roughly 0.277 Newtons, or 0.062 pounds of force.

Given that the paintball is about 96% liquid paint by weight, and the other 4% is a thin brittle shell made of the same material they make gelcap medicine out of, and also the fact that the armor has inelastic qualities associated with its structure, whereas a paintball is designed to shatter on contact with any surface having near-zero elasticity to it -- the force imparted to the armor from a paintball will have a negligible effect on it.

I've posted this video up in another thread before to attest the strength of a foam/fiberglass/epoxy composite compared to aluminum.

If it could stand up to such a big guy jumping on it repeatedly, it can stand up to some paintballs hitting with less than half a pound of force.

 

[Kroden]

Thanks for all the response to this topic. I like what Jason had in terms of the physics behind a paintball. I hadn't actually done any math yet, but I had read in another thread that 'if a paintball could break fiberglass, just think what it would do to skin'. I'm not sure where I found that, it might have been in the 'ODST Suite' thread.

Let me reiterate that I know many people have brought this up, and everyone thinks that MC armor is a disadvantage on the PB field, I realize this. I just want to test that what everyone says about fiberglass armor not being able to take a pintball, or even someone sitting down w/o taking off the pelvis, is true or not. I think that the fiberglass will be fine after being hit with a paintball. Even the company I got the materials from said that it should stand up. And that is just using polyester resin, not high end epoxy.

I will be doing the first test in a few hours, and I'll post a video and results afterwards. Stay tuned.

Kroden

 

[Seno Ypsamee]

whoah whoah whoah..... "break instantly"?

If a 3.2 gram paintball traveling at 285 feet per second were to hit fiberglass armor and shatter it, that would equate to extensive tissue damage and some penetration on uncovered body parts.

thats absurd.

Again the average weight of a premium grade paintball (which are the heaviest) is around 3.2 grams. if its accelerated up to 285 fps and hits instantly (point blank) thats going to equate to roughly 0.277 Newtons, or 0.062 pounds of force.

Given that the paintball is about 96% liquid paint by weight, and the other 4% is a thin brittle shell made of the same material they make gelcap medicine out of, and also the fact that the armor has inelastic qualities associated with its structure, whereas a paintball is designed to shatter on contact with any surface having near-zero elasticity to it -- the force imparted to the armor from a paintball will have a negligible effect on it.

I've posted this video up in another thread before to attest the strength of a foam/fiberglass/epoxy composite compared to aluminum.

If it could stand up to such a big guy jumping on it repeatedly, it can stand up to some paintballs hitting with less than half a pound of force.

pwn't...

And yes, whilst I do feel it will last for a little bit, I could be wrong. If you coat it enough it could last, but that's going to cost a lot of money. Of course, if money's no object, go ahead, but it will be pricey.

And to you, Zen, just to put this out there, I DO NOT condone/support ANYONE who plays paintball without some sort of safety. As I've said before, doing so is like playing a game of REAL (American) football, you'll most likely get your neck broken. I guess the football comparison goes like this, if they make safety equipment for a sport, then it must mean you'd be better off wearing it. Sure paintballs might not hurt too much, but one good, clean shot to your temple, and you won't have to worry about playing paintball (or doing anything) ever again. Chances are slim, but it's just like making this armor, I'd rather wear the safety equipment, such as my respirator, because, even though I am outside and there are less fumes, I don't want to take any chances...

 

[Belakor]

... or even someone sitting down w/o taking off the pelvis, is true or not...

Sitting in armor without taking anything off? No problem


I don't know what kind of prices everyone else is paying for resins and fiberglass but for me it wasn't that much more expensive to use more fiberglass on my gear. I buy in larger quantities at cost so it'd probably be a bit more if you're paying retail, but the extra cost is worth it in my eyes especially if you consider the repairs you'll probably need to do if you use less mat/cloth... I'll try and get some pics of what happened to my shins with two layers of mat after only 15 hours in the suit.

 

[Kroden]

Ok, first round of testing done, and the initial results are:

Successful

We shot several pieces with at least 10 rounds each. the only signs of damage were where it was only paper, and where it was only resin.

2 layers of cloth: 15 rounds, dead center, 5 point blank
- no signs of cracking
- only damaged paper backing

2 layers of matte: 15 rounds, dead center, 5 point blank
- no signs of cracking
- only damaged paper backing
- where only resin, cracked

My first pep piece: left gauntlet (2 layers matte, but not very good. This was my test piece, and I didn't get the corners very well, and, well, it's just not very good. I used a q-tip to get it in, maybe after I get some more practice it will work)
- 10 rounds, dead center, 8 feet away
- only damaged where no fiberglass

On closer inspection, after all the paint was rinsed off, still no evidence of damage to the integral structure, only the paper and resin.

We will be doing some more tests and deciding what we will use for parts that need more reinforcement. Just for reference, the point-blank shots were actually from about 3 feet away so we didn't get stuff in the barrell. Long shots were from about 20 feet away. 2 layers were still a bit flexible, not stiff enough to hold up armor well enough. We are going to definately try 5+ layers, also adding a styrene layer for reinforcement. We also think that adding a layer of fiberglass to the outside to protect the paper so it doesn't start to look bad might not be so bad an idea. Has anyone tried applying fiberglass over paint so that the paint couldn't come off? Or would a really good clear coat be best there? I have some ideas.

Comments on the experiments are appreciated and will benefit future experiments. Thanks for reading,

Kroden

 

[TexasAggie2011]

sounds like you were very thorough. glad to hear the results were positive and confirmed my number crunchign in the post above.

can't wait to see the video