Fibreglassing In/exterior! What?

[SparTom007]

So do you fibreglass the inside of the piece or the outside or both?

If you do the inside, do you do the outside after it?

If you do the outside, do you do the inside after it?

How many layers of fibreglass do you use?

How many layers of resin do you use on parts were you haven't used fibreglass, if any?


I have searched and browsed btw and think its something like one layer of resin on inside then one on outside then one layer fibreglass on inside and your good to filler/bondo/mud! I just want to find out what is the best way to get your armour as unbreakable as possible (ie be able to do forward rolls in it or jump off about 3 metre drops and roll without it breaking) Or something where I can at least roll about (I wanna make a movie! )

 

[Macattack64]

IMO, I prefer to do 2 resin layers on the outside and then 1 nice resin layer on the inside to make sure it keeps it's shape. Then after that I'll do one layer of fiberglass (cloth and resin). Afterwards if I find any weak spots I'll put a piece of cloth there and fiberglass it to make it stronger.

Also it depends on the part you are doing. The torso could require more then 1 layer of fiberglass on the inside and maybe more then 1 or 2 layer on the outside.

BTW there is a sticky on this

 

[docbytes]

BTW there is a sticky on this

I believe there are more than just one topic on this, don't forget the search is your friend. You are planning a movie where you jump and roll around alot? You might want to look into a molded helmet then, plastic is way more forgiving then fiberglass or bondo.

 

[Macattack64]

Also when scaling, since you'll be moving around a lot, try not to make it too big, if you haven't already done it. You would want to be able to bend ur legs or arms all the way when you run around like that.

 

[BlackAndChrome]

I figured out that there is little information on the process of fiberglassing... I used to do alot of it when I did high power rocketry and I was thinking about making a topic on it because I think it's highly needed.


First use the card stock print out method, make EXTREMELY precise cuts. On folding marks score the lines using a razor in a "- - - - - " pattern, this will ensure that you can make a straight line fold despite the use of heavy paper. Assemble it in the most precise manner you can, any flaw in the first step will show in the last step. Suspend the part so you can get full access to all sides without touching it, then cover it in casting resin (1 hour working time, 12 to dry) allow this to saturate then remove any excess. let it cure then repeat with the inside, this will insure you can attach fiberglass to inside and out.

For fiberglass you should have nothing over 2oz weight for the outside, this will ensure you will be able to drape it over edges and corners at sharp degrees (4oz+ doesn't corner well). even 2oz doesn't respond well to going over peaks so you may need to cut and make only one axis bends. If you can, buy the "crows foot" type fiberglass because it's made for sharp cornering and peaks. For the inside you can use heavier weights but I still wouldn't take it higher than 4oz because it will conform to the dips and you can always do 2 layers.

Sand the outside to perfection, paint, and presto.

Tips: I see a lot of first timers do this stuff...

use as little epoxy as possible, the strength comes from the fiberglass... Not the resin. The cloth should be wet but not to the extent that you can see puddles on top of it.

Always wear a respirator, you don't need a gas mask, just a paper respirator from walmart. If you've aver played around in fiberglass insulation you know what it feels like to get what is basically tiny shards of glass in your skin... But this is for your lungs.

Use and let the epoxy cure outside or in a open garage... I've made this mistake a couple times and come out of the garage with a headache or I get dizzy... It's the hardener.

Don't wear anything good and cover anything you want to stay clean... If it gets epoxy on it, it's not coming out. and wear gloves because water doesn't wash it off and it's a lot cleaner.

This is just a taste of my knowledge. I'd like to make a topic but is there a certain number of posts you need before you can make a new topic?

Edit: On second though... in order to land on it I would do the outside then sand all the paper off the inside then reinforce the inside with 2 layers 2.5oz then a 4oz and maybe a 6oz on top of that. Or you could go bad ass and do it in carbon fiber... When you buy your fiberglass get S-Glass instead of E-glass... It's supposed to be 30% stronger.

You maybe be better off painting the paper instead of dipping it, it will be flimsier but you will be able to cut through the paper easily (since you eliminate the epoxy that's so hard to sand through) without accidentally cutting through the 2oz on the other side.

-B&C

 

[SparTom007]

Hey B&C I sent you a PM

Thanks for the input all who replied so far but you still haven't answered my question!

I can't afford to do molded armour whoever said that (i dont know how to multiquote) so that is impossible and the movie has been called off anyway for reasons I cannot say but I still would like to know the best way for making my armour as strong as possible.

Also, that stickie just says how to make it hard without blowing the bank basically, not as hard as can be, I want it to be able to take a good hit so that if I fall or something it is still OK because even if the pain chips a little I can just respray it or maybe leave it as detailing. I don't want to have to walk around as though on an ice skating rink in flat soles!


OR: Can someone tell me if the normal basic layers are OK for this and show a video maybe?

 

[LastSpartan]

Fiberglass or slushcasted plastic in the helmet.

No matter which product you choose, if you drop a helmet, the bondo could chip. So. Don't drop it.

 

[BlacRoseImmortal]

I believe there are more than just one topic on this, don't forget the search is your friend. You are planning a movie where you jump and roll around alot? You might want to look into a molded helmet then, plastic is way more forgiving then fiberglass or bondo.

You can do what Doc said or you can build a heavy-as-hell armor using metal. That should be indestructible as well as imovable.

Actually, sarcasim aside lol, If you get a molded helmet just make it extra thick (like a full inch thick of plastic). It will be mad heavy but not like metal would. And it would be stronger than the normal 1/4 inch think molds...

 

[SparTom007]

You can do what Doc said or you can build a heavy-as-hell armor using metal. That should be indestructible as well as imovable.

Actually, sarcasim aside lol, If you get a molded helmet just make it extra thick (like a full inch thick of plastic). It will be mad heavy but not like metal would. And it would be stronger than the normal 1/4 inch think molds...

Can someone make a rule that if someone asks a question that people should read all of the posts by the user before they answer it because I hate repeating myself! [/arsiness]

I said before that I can't afford to make molded armour and am adding that I don't want to until I have made at least 2 successful pep armours! Didn't answer my question either!

Metal armour hmm... I could do that one day! It will be years from now though but I could do it because the tip we use for dumping stuff we can't recycle in the recycling bins has loads of sheet metal and I know a place you can go where they trade rusted sheet metal for good stuff at an extremely cheap price! I could make pepakura piece templates and weld it together with my brothers help! Then when you chip the paint it would look like real battle damage! For detailing I could just throw rocks at it lol!


Oh yeah, back on topic, no-one is answering my question!! The guy who said that only the bondo will chip, you didn't answer my question but that is OK because that is repairable!


ANSWER MY QUESTION THEN ADD COMMENTS PLEASE!!

 

[BlacRoseImmortal]

So do you fibreglass the inside of the piece or the outside or both?

If you do the inside, do you do the outside after it?

If you do the outside, do you do the inside after it?

How many layers of fibreglass do you use?

How many layers of resin do you use on parts were you haven't used fibreglass, if any?
I have searched and browsed btw and think its something like one layer of resin on inside then one on outside then one layer fibreglass on inside and your good to filler/bondo/mud! I just want to find out what is the best way to get your armour as unbreakable as possible (ie be able to do forward rolls in it or jump off about 3 metre drops and roll without it breaking) Or something where I can at least roll about (I wanna make a movie! )

1)inside
2)no
3)1-2
4)3-4
5)outside- 3 layers of resin, inside-2 layers of glass, 1/8-1/4 inch bondo = sturdy but breakable

and like I said before if you BUY a molded helmet get it extra thick.

Thats pretty much the only way your gonna get a strong helmet, but everything is breakable under certain conditions. If you feel like jumping off a cliff with your helmet on, dont expect it to survive the impact. If you plan on just rough-housing around, i'm sure either a properly done pep helm or a molded bucket will be just fine.

Please, next time, don't try to bite my head off. We are all trying to help you and give you some friendly advise.

 

[SparTom007]

1)inside
2)no
3)1-2
4)3-4
5)outside- 3 layers of resin, inside-2 layers of glass, 1/8-1/4 inch bondo = sturdy but breakable

and like I said before if you BUY a molded helmet get it extra thick.

Thats pretty much the only way your gonna get a strong helmet, but everything is breakable under certain conditions. If you feel like jumping off a cliff with your helmet on, dont expect it to survive the impact. If you plan on just rough-housing around, i'm sure either a properly done pep helm or a molded bucket will be just fine.

Please, next time, don't try to bite my head off. We are all trying to help you and give you some friendly advise.

I wasn't biting your head off, I was just annoyed because its been so many posts and no answers.
THANK YOU!!


Can someone please post a video of someone falling over in their armour? ty

 

[contec]

I just want to find out what is the best way to get your armour as unbreakable as possible (ie be able to do forward rolls in it or jump off about 3 metre drops and roll without it breaking) Or something where I can at least roll about (I wanna make a movie! )

If you gonna make a movie you could make a hero suit (for closeups and such) that has all the details and looks super nice and a stunt suit that can take the abuse from the rolling and jumping that dont have all the details.
Also think about if you make a helmet/armor that can survive a fall from 3 meters, That dont mean that YOU will be Ok after the fall. Remember that this is NOT bicycle helmet that is made to protect your head, This is just a helmet made from paper that looks good.


/Conny

 

[LastSpartan]

And don't forget we are building props, not armors.

 

[Spartan 051]

i say just slip the fiberglass and just use smooth cast 300.

a little more costly but way easier and not to toxic

 

[BlackAndChrome]

You can do what Doc said or you can build a heavy-as-hell armor using metal. That should be indestructible as well as imovable.

Actually, sarcasim aside lol, If you get a molded helmet just make it extra thick (like a full inch thick of plastic). It will be mad heavy but not like metal would. And it would be stronger than the normal 1/4 inch think molds...

Hmmm... That's a good idea... I will need to get some sheet steal laser cut, and I guess a mini-MIG welder could classify as "hot glue" in a certain sense.

metal prices are so high these days but I bet one of these puppies would sell for oodles of money on ebay.

 

[Humungotron]

Actually, sarcasim aside lol, If you get a molded helmet just make it extra thick (like a full inch thick of plastic). It will be mad heavy but not like metal would. And it would be stronger than the normal 1/4 inch think molds...

If you make a helmet out of 10a (roughly 1/8th inch) steel, it'll be mad heavy. The amount of 18 ga steel required to make this helmet isn't going to top 8 or 10 lbs, assuming you're tig welding, not mig welding. Mig welding will probably add a pound, maybe a pound and a half (filler wire adds up quick).
Now, a helmet made of 1 inch think fiberglass will weigh in around 20 to 25 lbs.
when I glassed my helmet, I had 4 coats of resin on the outside, followed by 3 layers of glass cloth, and an additional slush resin layer to encapsulate all the pokey bits. with the 1/8 inch bondo I have on it, it weighs roughly 10 lbs.
It takes approximately 10-15 layers of glass cloth to make an inch think, depending on the weight you buy. Meaning, aside from having to make the helmet obviously oversized to accomidate this extra material, you're looking at a weight, after bondo, of anywhere from 35 to 45+ lbs.

Also, keep in mind that most hand laid fiberglass motorcycle helmets only use, at most, 5 layers of glass. and these are designed to protect your noggin at 100+ mph crash speeds.
Not being an ass, I swear.

 

[CPU64]

Some people don't understand how strong fiberglass actually is.
I guess they focus more on the "glass" part instead of the "fiber" and think its like glass.

 

[BlackAndChrome]

If you make a helmet out of 10a (roughly 1/8th inch) steel, it'll be mad heavy. The amount of 18 ga steel required to make this helmet isn't going to top 8 or 10 lbs, assuming you're tig welding, not mig welding. Mig welding will probably add a pound, maybe a pound and a half (filler wire adds up quick).
Now, a helmet made of 1 inch think fiberglass will weigh in around 20 to 25 lbs.
when I glassed my helmet, I had 4 coats of resin on the outside, followed by 3 layers of glass cloth, and an additional slush resin layer to encapsulate all the pokey bits. with the 1/8 inch bondo I have on it, it weighs roughly 10 lbs.
It takes approximately 10-15 layers of glass cloth to make an inch think, depending on the weight you buy. Meaning, aside from having to make the helmet obviously oversized to accomidate this extra material, you're looking at a weight, after bondo, of anywhere from 35 to 45+ lbs.

Also, keep in mind that most hand laid fiberglass motorcycle helmets only use, at most, 5 layers of glass. and these are designed to protect your noggin at 100+ mph crash speeds.
Not being an ass, I swear.

hmmm... well I looked online and did some calculations...

I found the info here:
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=13&

ok, assuming that there are 25 mm in 1 inch that means that 11.3 layers of this specific cloth would be needed to achieve 1 inch. if 1 linear yard could canvas the helmet, at the weight of 1.4oz per square yard we can multiply by 11.3 for the multiple layers to assume the total weight of all layers to be 15.8 ounces... Just UNDER 1lb.

Now here's the tricky part... The resin, we all have our individual ideals on correct... well.... correct anything. So I will have to use overkill to appease everyone... From what I found on another site, one gallon of resin weighs in at 360 oz. Depending on how colossal your head is 1/2 a gallon should be enough to cast a entire 1" thick helmet (may be wrong on this never done any casting) but it should be far more than enough considering the space in that 1" that the cloth takes up, so... 180 oz at 11 pounds. totaling 12 pounds.

Correct me if I calculated this wrong... I've been known to make myself look like a fool.

Just a quick question but what's the use of the 4 coats of resin before glass? that's probably were a lot of your weight is coming from.

-B&C

 

[UNSC Leatherneck]

One of the most important things you can do to ensure a high strength to weight ratio is to weigh the fiberglass fabric, then mix an equal amount of resin. This 1:1 ratio will give the finished part very reasonable physical properties. Extremely high performance composites will have more than 50% fiber in the part. In well made parts, the properties of the part will exceed that of aluminum or even steel, in some cases. I've seen aircraft made of composites take some impacts that would have punched straight through aluminum skins. I think that a helmet can be made with impressive physical properties at a fraction of the weights mentioned. Just food for thought, the military's MICH helmet weighs around 3 pounds, and it can stop a bullet. It's all in the design and fabrication. An inch of fiberglass seems excessive for our application. Even for minor stunt work. A better way would be to fiberglass the pep, add a couple layers of fiberglass, then add a layer of closed cell foam. That foam could be worked to give the shape desired. Then you'd add several more layers of fiberglass. The foam geometrically strengthens the layup. If you double the thickness, you've made the part six times stronger and twelve times stiffer, with a minor increase in weight. This is the method I intend to use when I make my marine helmet.

 

[BlackAndChrome]

That's what I love to hear... I know when I do it how much to use but I could never tell someone how much by weight... That's why I don't get why I'm hearing about putting 4 coats of resin on before fibreglass... Compared to fiberglass, resin adds little strength, increases weight, and decreases sand-ability.

-B&C