Help... Out Of Warranty XBox 360 Repair...

[Walter Spase]

I'll be asking about Home XBox 360 repairs, but first, I must let you know why I bring it up.

My pre-face to this discussion is the fact that I am not unintelligent, and I do have an engineering degree, albeit Mechanical Engineering (yes we are required to know basic electrical engineering and computer related knowledge). So complicated concepts do not escape my grasp, and I am not easily fool by someone who makes claims to know what they are talking about when they make reference to heat zones, thermal conductivity, solder balls, cold solder joints etc. This is the internet, and unfortunately I just don't trust anyone that can remain anonymous.

Now for the fun part....

I have 2 first production run 360s, both suffering the RROD - General Hardware Failure.

I will be cracking the cases on both and attempting the repairs, but as of late I seem to find slight conflicts in the repair process documented by what seems to be people with little or no previous computer/hardware repair. More often than that, I seem to find conflicting reports on the stability of the repair. Basically, I see people post that its broke, and two days later they report back that the did whatever the goofy repair they found online was, and now it works, and never post weeks or months later and follow up to whether the system remained stable after repair.

This bring me to the 405th... while I could seek out a mod or hack forum, I simply don't trust them. The 405th is the group of people I trust most on the internet, {JOKE} but that may stem from my ability to Ban accounts {/JOKE}. So, if you have, and I mean effectively, personally repaired your personal XBox 360 consol that suffered from the 3 light "General Hardware Failure", and that repair has been a time proven solution, please lend me your experience, and help me filter the garbage from the gold on home repairs. Yes I know this will void my warranty, but I have no warranty to void, and I choose not to pay %50 the cost of a new console to repair my units, I would sooner scrap them and pay for a new one.

My Problem:
Both consoles, with all cables plugged in correctly, upon power on and boot-up, blink 3 red lights indicating a "General Hardware Failure". No known causes, both were not in locations where air flow restricted cooling. No known further errors.

 

[Hickeydog]

Seems like you have bad solder joints. That seems to plague the Xbox 360. I suppose if you're feeling adventurous, you could disassemble it down to the bare PCB, and try the video card baking trick. Many a dead/dying video card has been resurrected from the dead by this method. However, it is not permanent as the solder joints will crack again. It's a result of everything going to RoHS (lead free, environmentally friendly crap). And when I say crap, I mean it. The stuff simply does not perform like the lead-based stuff. I have resurrected my 8800GT and a 3870 with this method.

If you don't feel like tearing apart a 360, you can try the towel trick. Basically, you cover your Xbox in towel and pillows, and force it to overheat. It's not as effective as the oven trick, but it may accomplish the same thing.

And if you end up bricking your Xbox and ban me, well, then.....um......I would be upset. And then I would cry, and then get over it.

I realize that I haven't proven this on an Xbox, mainly because I refuse to purchase such a device.

The only permanent solution to this solder failing problem is to remove every component, clean them of the RoHS solder, clean the board of the solder, and replace it with lead based solder.

 

[ventrue]

If I may just jump in on this with another question: Why do these solder joints crack in the first place? Can't you somehow prevent that from happening (or happening again)?

 

[Hickeydog]

If I may just jump in on this with another question: Why do these solder joints crack in the first place? Can't you somehow prevent that from happening (or happening again)?

They crack primarily under the main processors because of heat. The component gets HOT (like, 70c), and so it expands. When it cools, the solder contracts. Lead based solder has no problem with this because it's malleable at 70c, so is expands and contracts without any problems. However, the RoHS solder doesn't do that. You have to get it to a higher temperature (I completely forget what it is), before it will start getting flexible. However, the chip and the circuit board are flexing due to the heat, but the solder isn't. It's a problem with the solder. By sticking the circuit board in the oven at 295c, you're heating the solder up to the point where it almost turns to liquid, but doesn't. It does, however, flow slowly and fills the cracks that are filling the problem.

Long story short, the issue is with the solder, and there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

[ka5p3r]

if its the rrod then no matter the age they will fix it for free, mine was expired a year and they fixed it, even though the sites says 100 fill the info out and itll say total charge 0.00$. i hope this helps if not and u have tried this then slap me with a wet noodle ..lol

 

[mkshane81]

I checked with Microsoft 2 years after Microsoft sent a refurb that had the same problem. Bottom line, they wanted $140. I make no claims to have any significant amount of electronics engineering knowledge, however, the method that I used approximately 4 to 6 weeks ago has kept working thus far.

1. Crack the case, keeping everything in order of course.
2. Remove drive, fan vacuum shroud, and unplug the fan (no need to remove the fan).
3. Power on the console, and leave it to run. To give you a heads up, it will overheat and power off, leaving 2 blinking red lights.
4. Plug the fan back into the board, and power the console back on. If it worked like mine did, it then began the normal power-on procedure.
5. Replace fan vacuum shroud, and the disc drive.
6. Replace case.

That is the exact order in which I did things. Again, I don't exactly what that does, but it did seem to work. Hopefully someone has a longer timeline of results that they too can provide. I hope this helped a little bit, and good luck!!

Matt

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

I just got my 3-year-old 360 fixed, after it E74'd. The warranty expired nearly 2 years ago, but they still paid for shipping and repairs. E74 and RRoD fall under a court order after a class-action lawsuit, requiring MS to fix any RRoD'd or E74'd console, for free. If you've got that issue, you should at least check with them, first. (And fill out every form they ask; it said $150 until I got to the end, and it changed to $0.00.)

As for repairs, the RRoD and E74 errors are caused when the thermal paste used to adhere the graphics card and processor fans to the motherboard cracks and splits. While the various overheat methods work for a short time, they quickly deteriorate and cause permanent, massive, voided-warranty damage to your console.

I don't know much about the various causes of RRoD, and how to fix them, but I'd assume it's similar to the E74 fix, in which you open the case, and remove the graphics card from its slot on the motherboard. (There is an X-clamp behind it) Once that's done, you have to scrub the paste away with alcohol, and apply new thermal paste (local electronics store, for about $5) and attach the component again, using washers instead of the X-clamps. But, being as I don't know this to be certain, and I've never done it to an Xbox, I refuse to accept any responsibility if you choose to do that.

 

[Walter Spase]

I appreciate everyone's help.......

I know what has caused the error, and I am aware of warranty extensions and such.....

what I am asking for, is someone that HAS done the repair, HAS experience, and can vouch for their opinion in the matter.

 

[wowhaza]

I'll tell you my story. Last year around x-mas I had a party and after several hours of playing halo3 on system link, my 360 crashed and had the 3 flashing lights. It was quite new and I wasn't sure what to do so I searched on google, youtube and everything in between.
I tried the towel trick and wrapped my 360 in 1 thin blanket tightly and then another thick blanket tightly. I left it on for 30 minutes which is what was suggested but after checking on it, it still had the RRoD.
So I re wrapped it but put another towel over the 2 previous towels and left it on for around an hour and 15 mins. After unwrapping, I found a super hot, overheated 360. I shut it down and turned it back on and was pleased when I found out that I had the regular green lights and after that day, my 360 has been working as normal. Nothing seems to have changed, which is great.

If it doesn't work for your first time, leave it wrapped longer, and make sure the towels are tight. If you don't know the towel trick, turn on your 360 with the RRoD lights, and wrap several towels TIGHTLY around it and wait for an hour-ish.
Just my 2 cents, hope I helped.

 

[kupokitty]

Personally, I wouldn't want a baked 360. The IC chips could fry, and you'd just end up with a plastic brick.



Maybe one of the IC chips' pins popped out?

If it's a soldering problem, you can just de-solder and redo it yourself.

 

[Hickeydog]

Personally, I wouldn't want a baked 360. The IC chips could fry, and you'd just end up with a plastic brick.



Maybe one of the IC chips' pins popped out?

If it's a soldering problem, you can just de-solder and redo it yourself.

You do realize that the oven trick/towel trick is just recreating what goes on the factory, right? They lay down the components on the board with solder on the pads and some sticky flux. Then the whole scheebang is rolled through an oven (heated to 300+ c. ), which melts the solder, which secures the components to the board.

All you're doing is re-creating this oven when you wrap the thing in towels and let it heat up.

 

[kupokitty]

All you're doing is re-creating this oven when you wrap the thing in towels and let it heat up.

Not all parts are meant to be in an oven.

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

Not all parts are meant to be in an oven.

And, even those that are are put in at very specific temperatures for very specific times.

If you know what the issue is, exactly, then just apply general technical knowledge. If it's a solder joint, re-solder it. If it's a loose pin, reconnect and re-solder. If it's the thermal paste on a heat sink, replace paste.

All these oven methods and towel-wrap methods don't seem like great ideas to me. Aside from damaging the case, you could screw up good solder joints. Also, the towel method brings the processor past its operating temperature range, and you can damage it, easily. Bricked processor equals bricked console.

 

[Nintendude]

I was once a certified XBOX technician, still have the paperwork somewhere around my house. Hickeydog on the first page would be the person most correct with the video card baking trick for a low cost solution. But as for spreading flux on the board and sticking it in the oven hell no. When these are run through the factory they start as a simple board now there are two ways they do it the first way is all the electronic components are placed on the board on a rack as they go over a pool of molten solder, the other way like how someone described vaguely is they use a special stencil then they wipe over the stencil with the flux before it's put into a special oven to bake the flux not just any ordinary household oven and even if you use a household oven you risk one of two things. Accidentally melting the board, or getting poisoned by the fumes if you do use the household method and don't watch it and keep track of it. That's only in the case of doing the entire re-soldering yourself if you are doing something as simple as fixing the I/O Video Card yuo should'nt have any problems with that baking methid Hickeydog suggested.

 

[Walter Spase]

Well good news is I have replaced the x-clamps and adjusted the tension on the heatsinks and I got it working again, now we shall see if the fix is permanent. Thank for the input folks.

 

[Bullseye]

Alright If it is a RROD problem it is an over heating issue (Mine did it to). Since you have the original XBox 360 the thermal paste they put on the CPU burns off relatively quick leading to the RROD.

So If you open up your Xbox and take off the CPU fan you should notice that there is probably Very little thermal Paste on the CPU.
Place a drop a little bigger than a dime size drop of Thermal Paste on the center of the CPU. Place the Fan back over the CPU making sure that is on right.

This is what I did to fix many RROD problems where I live. The link below is the Thermal paste I used on the xbox's I fixed and to this day my xbox has not had the RROD.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...mal_Paste_artic_silver-_-35-100-007-_-Product