How Much Will Armor Cost You?

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guido666

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Let me start off with the quick answer that all the n00bs were looking for. Depending on your experience (which affects how much you'll screw up), your attention to detail and patience (which also affects how much you'll screw up), and how much of the necessary tools and equipment you already have,...



  1. Pepakura-based armor: Will end up costing you around $300-600+
  2. Molded armor: Wil end up costing $1000-2500+



So a bunch of you just went "OH MY GOD". Believe me, this is the truth. It seems hard to believe that $20 worth of cardstock turns into several hundred dollars, so lets break it down a little. You buy $20 worth of cardstock, $20 worth of glue and xacto blades, a $5 metal ruler, a $10+ cutting board/mat, and get to work. You soon need to buy $20+ worth of fiberglass resin, and $20+ worth of fiberglass, and some Bondo at $10-15 a can. Then you go through $20 worth of sandpaper and Dremel bits (if you didn't have to buy a Dremel for $50-100). Then, if you're on a budget, you go buy a dozen cans of primer and spraypaint, at $3-5 each, for a total of $40-60 (more if you're using high-quality airbrush paints, or something). Don't forget your $40 gold motorcycle visor, straps, buckles, pressure suit, etc. It adds up quick!



Molds are worse, because you need dozens of gallons of supplies that cost $50-100 per gallon, plus clay, and on and on.



The Project Triangle



Most economics classes, especially at college level, talk about the "project triangle". It helps you understand the options you have to work with. It breaks the competing factors of projects down into three groups (cost, quality, and speed), and puts each one at one corner of a triangle.



600px-Project_Triangle.svg.png




  • Good: This is quality. How much does quality matter to you? Does your armor need to be really tough, or just tough enough to wear at a convention? How long does it need to last, or do you care if it breaks periodically?
  • Fast: This is speed. How long will it take you to make? How much time will you spend working on it? Are you going to have to learn new, difficult skills to complete it, or to use special tools?
  • Cheap: This is cost (the biggest issue for most of our younger members). How much will it cost you to make? Will you have to buy special tools? Are you going to have to buy multiple sizes and colors of similar things? Are you going to have to use fancy or exotic materials?



The trick to the triangle is that YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ALL THREE. Point to any place on the triangle, and it describes a compromise. You can choose to maximize for any ONE OR TWO factors only. If you try maximizing for all three (by picking a place in the middle of the triangle), you are actually losing some of two options, to gain more of the third.



So you really only have a few choices:



  1. Good and Fast, but not Cheap.
  2. Good and Cheap, but not Fast.
  3. Cheap and Fast, but not Good.
  4. The absolute Best, but not Cheap or Fast. (Rarely possible.)
  5. The absolute Cheapest, but not Good or Fast. (Rarely possible.)
  6. The absolute Fastest, but not Good or Cheap. (Rarely possible.)



Those are your ONLY OPTIONS. (Smart people out there: Lets not get into discussions of the true mutual exclusivity of the options here, please. Don't confuse the people that this is intended for.)



How does this help me?



This helps you understand what happens based on your priorities. If you are on a very tight budget (kids!), but want to have it very good quality (molded armor), it means that it will take you extreme amounts of time, like having to manufacture or dig up your own chemicals! You obviously can't do that, so if it's ok to go with some less quality, you can compromise some. For instance, Pepakura armor can end up being pretty good quality visually, but it will never be as good of quality as cast armor. So you give up some quality, to move closer to the time side (because you don't want to try inventing silicone mold rubber again).



This also answers the 405th's most age-old n00b question, which is "Why does it cost so much to make paintball Halo armor?", or "How can I make cheap paintball Halo armor?" (HINT: YOU CAN'T!) The reason why you can't, is because that is an increase in quality. As the triangle shows us, if you increase in quality, you move further from cost and time, so it's going to take more time and cost more money.



This happens with any choice you make, and it will instantly tell you what you're going to have to give up. Another example is a movie studio. The movie studio needs to make 50 sets of prop armor very quickly, and it has to look good for the movie, so it costs them A TON. Cinema prop makers typically pay a professional sculptor to very quickly create a very nice clay model. They then take hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars of mold rubber, and pour it all over it. They then pay a professional painter lots of money, to do a movie-quality paint job very quickly (faster than you or I could). So for the movie studio, they accept "Good and Fast, but not Cheap."



The Law of Diminishing Returns



Engineers often follow something they call "The Law Of Diminishing Returns". What this law says, is that as something gets better, it becomes more and more difficult to make it even better yet. And it's cool, because it too applies to almost everything.



It relates to the Project Triangle, because as you get closer and closer to one side of the triangle, you give up lots more of what you are moving away from (exponentially, even).



Let's think about a couple examples, starting with cars. You can buy one of the cheapest cars on the market, like a Toyota Yaris that is $12,000. It's a decent car, it gets good gas mileage, it will get you to work for years to come. But for twice as much as the Yaris, $24,000, you can get a Toyota Tundra full-size pickup truck. Much bigger, can carry tons of stuff (you could probably put the Yaris in the back), bigger / more powerful engine, tow your boat, WOW! Then, for almost 6 times as much as a Yaris, $65,000+, you can buy a Toyota Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser is 3 times as much as the Tundra, but it's not bigger, doesn't have a more powerful engine, and can't carry more stuff. So what did you get for your extra $41,000 (extra 3+ Yaris's worth)? You got leather heated seats, navigation unit, some bragging rights, extra cup holders. See the diminishing returns? When you went from the cheapest to the middle, you got a lot more. When you went from the middle to the top, you didn't get as much more, even though it was many times more expensive.



So for armor, you can do a pretty good job with Pepakura, and do it for a few hundred dollars. If you want to get into molded armor, which is better quality, it doesn't just cost a little more, it costs many times more.



This also applies to all the people that want to do extreme things. If you are trying to make real metal armor, paintballing armor, carbon fiber armor, etc., the quality might be 2x as good, but it will cost you 10x as much time and money. Or if you want to use some exotic construction method, like CNC machining it out of solid billet material, you can get to the finished product 2x as fast, but the machine and materials are ridiculously expensive.



Economy of Scale



Economy of Scale is what happens if making a different amount of items causes the price to change. In most cases, but not all, making more allows you to make them cheaper. It also has limits.



For example, if you make Pepakura armor, you have to make each one by hand. Making more doesn't let you make them much faster or cheaper, except that you might make them faster as you get better. But if you make a mold of the armor, it might cost you $1000, but you can make 25 copies that take only an hour a piece, before the mold breaks. So that $1000 ends up costing each of the 25 molded pieces $40, but they take 1 hour to cast instead of 12 hours of cutting and gluing paper.



Conclusion



So plan your project, and consider what is really important to you. You really only have 3 sets of options to weigh: Good and Fast, but not Cheap. -OR- Good and Cheap, but not Fast. -OR- Cheap and Fast, but not Good.
 

excellent information dude and very true regarding the cost of speed meets quality. i find that what seems to be a cheap start eventually turns to an expensive finally.
 
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Actually, I'm planning on a full suit of Mk. VI, and I think I can pull it off for around $50-$75. The biggie is not fiberglassing. Paper mache has given me great results, I did a mk. V shoulder, and it's rock solid, and it can be sanded. I figure: about $20 in cardstock, $10 in bondo, $10 for a ruler, pens, glue, and an xacto knife, and if I resin it, $10 more. PAint is cheap, you can get decent stuff from Wal-mart in a spray can. I recommend a dollar store. I found a ton of stuff there, and it's really helpful. The helmet visor is most likely the most expensive, but I'm not thinking about a motercycle visor. I'm thinking more along the lines of painted butrayne. I agree with you can do it fast, cheap, and good quality. Pick 2. Paper mache 'll take longer, but it's cheaper, and the quality's almost the same. That's my take.



EDIT: forgot about the undersuit. But if you make it yourself, you can make it a lot cheaper. I say it's easily possible for $150. And really, glue and x-actos costing like $20? Buy a boxcutter. my brother worked at Kohls department store and I have a stash of like 20 of 'em. Look for unusual things, think outside the box! You can really do something amazing with so little money. Actually, that's what I think the best costumer is. Can make amazing stuff, out of so little. that's my take.
 
Boba Fett said:
Actually, I'm planning on a full suit of Mk. VI, and I think I can pull it off for around $50-$75. The biggie is not fiberglassing. Paper mache has given me great results, I did a mk. V shoulder, and it's rock solid, and it can be sanded. I figure: about $20 in cardstock, $10 in bondo, $10 for a ruler, pens, glue, and an xacto knife, and if I resin it, $10 more. PAint is cheap, you can get decent stuff from Wal-mart in a spray can. I recommend a dollar store. I found a ton of stuff there, and it's really helpful. The helmet visor is most likely the most expensive, but I'm not thinking about a motercycle visor. I'm thinking more along the lines of painted butrayne. I agree with you can do it fast, cheap, and good quality. Pick 2. Paper mache 'll take longer, but it's cheaper, and the quality's almost the same. That's my take.



Good example. Going with paper mache, instead of fiberglass, is a reduction in quality (paper mache is not as strong, not waterproof, etc.). Walmart spray paint is also a reduction in quality (there's a reason professionals use high-quality, expensive paints). And you save money in the process.



What trips people up is usually the "Law of Diminishing Returns" part, because they have a hard time telling the difference between two things. While paper mache might be good enough for what we do, it's generally accepted than fiberglass is superior in quality. But when you take into account Diminishing Returns, fiberglass may not be much better, in ways that we care about for these projects, to warrant the extra cost.



I really encourage you to keep detailed records of how much it cost you, then post back with your totals. Post some pics, and observations, about the quality too. The more information people have the better.



EDIT: "And really, glue and x-actos costing like $20?" Yes, really. Let's go on a virtual trip to Staples... Xacto knife $3.79, 15-pack of Xacto blades $6.99, Elmer's glue $2.29, tiny 5"x7" cutting mat $5.90 = $18.97 + tax. Yes, that would probably hold you for a while, but if you had nothing you would have to buy all these things. You have to factor them into the total cost you are paying to build it. If your brother gave you box cutters, they still cost somebody money... probably a couple dollars a piece. I didn't really consider factoring theft into my calculations. :p
 
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Hello All,

Yes it does add up vary fast. Even the privilege of getting the fiberglass supply at wholesale prices it still adds up fast.



Stilgar
 
Well, I'm beginning a suit as of today, printed out the helmet and a chest tester. I'll make a log of all cash spent and supplies. if it's good, I can make a tutorial on "armoring on the cheap" Paint though, really, it's not too bad to go down in quality. The best stuff is some black primer, then hit it with your main color. Remember, real military stuff is ALWAYS made by the lowest bidder... (too true!)



edit: oh, and I agree, molded armor costs a buttload of cash. one day, maybem but kinda hard on the budget.. of course, molding armor you can sell casts, so that cuts down the price a bit.
 
Boba Fett said:
... molded armor costs a buttload of cash. one day, maybem but kinda hard on the budget.. of course, molding armor you can sell casts, so that cuts down the price a bit.



It may but, you cant mass produce the armor to get all your cash back, because its illegal, you will get banned and you will get sued by Microsoft.
 
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I wasn't thinking mass-produce, just selling say a suit or 2 to offset the cost. and what would be the definition of "mass produce" ? I mean, what if I sold 2 MC handplates. Would that be considered mass production? Not that I will be, just curious. Or if I sold the armor as, "sci-fi space-warrior armor". etc. Again, never would do that, when 16 yrs old, 2g's is hard to come by...
 
Boba Fett said:
Paint though, really, it's not too bad to go down in quality.



It's not a matter of "how bad" it is to go down in quality, because that is a question of Diminishing Returns. The Project Triangle only cares that you come to the realization that you are, in fact, reducing the quality to save money.



Boba Fett said:
I wasn't thinking mass-produce, just selling say a suit or 2 to offset the cost. and what would be the definition of "mass produce" ? I mean, what if I sold 2 MC handplates. Would that be considered mass production? Not that I will be, just curious. Or if I sold the armor as, "sci-fi space-warrior armor". etc. Again, never would do that, when 16 yrs old, 2g's is hard to come by...



Selling casting would offset costs, but the mold making process is so expensive, you'd probably have to sell several in order to break even. That is a whole other principle, called "Economy of Scale". Some things have it, and some don't. Some things get cheaper the more you make, some stay the same, and some actually get more expensive. For instance, you might only be able to cast 25 pieces of armor before the mold is worn out or destroyed. So there is a limit to how far you can take that.
 
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Drgnfyre4 said:
You use the triangle too!!!! Yay! We have that triangle in our shop!



Oh yeah? Well the triangle and I hang out on the weekend and drink beer! Top that. :D



Yeah, it's good to think about how much these hobbies will cost, and what things you can give up to make it more affordable.
 
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Boba Fett said:
I wasn't thinking mass-produce, just selling say a suit or 2 to offset the cost. and what would be the definition of "mass produce" ? I mean, what if I sold 2 MC handplates. Would that be considered mass production? Not that I will be, just curious. Or if I sold the armor as, "sci-fi space-warrior armor". etc. Again, never would do that, when 16 yrs old, 2g's is hard to come by...



Let's just say this: You can't sell armor to make a profit. You can recoup a portion of production costs, but if you ever break even (which you won't unless you try really hard), then you're both overcharging (unless you sell an infinite amount of parts like Sean did late last year) and making a profit (debatable). So if Microsoft decides you're making a profit off of selling the armor, you'll get slammed with a cease and desist which will definitely not put you in a good light.



Plus, your goal shouldn't be to recoup losses. If it is, you shouldn't be selling in the first place, since in essence that is seeking a profit. Sell it if there's interest in it so that you can satisfy customers.



Anyways, the OP was very well written, though to be honest the people who ask the same question as the topic title are the same guys that spam "tl;dr" (or at least mentally they do), so it might now benefit them that well. Still, sticky worthy, to say the least.
 
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I agree. Stickey worthy.

stickynade.jpg




So, as long as I don't make anything, selling casts is ok? That makes sense... Thanks for that. Just wondering.
 
Boba Fett said:
I agree. Stickey worthy.

stickynade.jpg




So, as long as I don't make anything, selling casts is ok? That makes sense... Thanks for that. Just wondering.



In other words you can sell what you have left over, or something you are not going to use or you dont want.
 
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Aaron said:
Cardstock:$10

Spraypaint:$10

Resin,Bondo(strengthening): $30

Undersuit:ranges depending on what you want

Straps and padding: $15

Visor: also ranges: $20 at the cheapest



That's $85 already, but I think you're really just proving my point that people don't account for most of the money they are spending. Did you cut it out with scissors? If not, are factoring in for xacto blades? You don't plan on using any glue? I don't see that. It doesn't look like you're doing any sanding either. And no buckles or rivets? And are you going to have that $20 visor shipped to you, because that's $5-10. Especially if you start building an entire suit, you're going to use a lot more of these materials.



I think you're way low on your estimate, and that my $300-600 estimate holds a lot more water. All those other dozens of little $2-20 items and charges add up very quickly.
 
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This is a good topic and excellent for project planning. It shows vital aspects of cost etc...



One thing I had a problem with was that you did not include possible cost reduction methods, that do not reduce quality.



The possible costs you posted were under the assumption that the person had none of the necessary materials/tools beforehand. Quite often some of the needed supplies are already lying around in their basement, or they know somebody who has extra. Also, they may already have glue and knives (I did) and they can use a clean kitchen cutting board to cut the pieces out on instead of shelling out for a cutting mat (cutting board worked fine for me). Another thing is that people can look out for other objects of use a flea markets (I bought a barely used motorcycle helmet with pads and a good visor as well as a battery powered dremel for 30 bucks combined) other things such as gloves, boots, straps, and black clothing could be found at these places as well.



What I mean by all this is that it is possible to make good armor for less while maintaining quality, as long as you know where to look.
 
Lord Devious said:
This is a good topic and excellent for project planning. It shows vital aspects of cost etc...



One thing I had a problem with was that you did not include possible cost reduction methods, that do not reduce quality.



The possible costs you posted were under the assumption that the person had none of the necessary materials/tools beforehand. Quite often some of the needed supplies are already lying around in their basement, or they know somebody who has extra. Also, they may already have glue and knives (I did) and they can use a clean kitchen cutting board to cut the pieces out on instead of shelling out for a cutting mat (cutting board worked fine for me). Another thing is that people can look out for other objects of use a flea markets (I bought a barely used motorcycle helmet with pads and a good visor as well as a battery powered dremel for 30 bucks combined) other things such as gloves, boots, straps, and black clothing could be found at these places as well.



What I mean by all this is that it is possible to make good armor for less while maintaining quality, as long as you know where to look.



There are lots of cost reduction methods that do not reduce quality, but they all cost extra time.



Searching for used items can take an extremely long time, not just hours of visiting garage sales and flea markets, but possibly months of looking until you find what you want. There may also be quality concerns there.



If you have left over materials or tools, that's an Economy of Scale, because you got no benefit until you were able to use them on more than one project.



Getting items for free is not really a useful topic. I think it's quite obvious that if someone gets you something, and you didn't pay for it, it reduces your cost. However, it did not change the cost of the materials, or the value of the product. It may even cost you extra time. I could build a $100,000,000 space shuttle for FREE if you give me all the parts, but it doesn't mean that it didn't cost $100,000,000 to build. "There's no such thing as a free lunch."
 
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Awesomeness said:
That's $85 already, but I think you're really just proving my point that people don't account for most of the money they are spending. Did you cut it out with scissors? If not, are factoring in for xacto blades? You don't plan on using any glue? I don't see that. It doesn't look like you're doing any sanding either. And no buckles or rivets? And are you going to have that $20 visor shipped to you, because that's $5-10. Especially if you start building an entire suit, you're going to use a lot more of these materials.



I think you're way low on your estimate, and that my $300-600 estimate holds a lot more water. All those other dozens of little $2-20 items and charges add up very quickly.



True, but come on, who doesn't have scissors? actually, if you argue it that way, it costs you $200 for a table, $50 for the chair to sit on, Electricity for light... etc. Scissors, glue, pens, rulers, almost EVERYONE has those things. Again, just some thoughts. Man, we're going into philosophy here! the 405th philosophers!
 
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