In the planning steps for a 40k armour, need some help with design process.

[Klomster]

Greetings, i've already posted in the introduce yourself, so i thought i would throw this in the pile of noob "i need help with everything" threads.

So, business then.

I am planning on making the coolest armour in warhammer 40´000, the classic suit of armour worn by the men in red.
I'm of course speaking of the dragon scale..... no one heard of it?

*Responses of wtf? and wut?*

The techpriest armour...

*More shaking heads.*

Theese guys.

*Some people actually knowing what i'm talking about.*

So here is the thing.
I have fully understood the basic construction method for armour, and if i missed something there is hundreds of places telling me what i'm doing wrong.

It's this problem.
I am fairly sure there are no pepakura files for the dragon scale, few people even make 3d models of the little fellows, and people don't even seem to make many of the models even.

I am a lost mechanicus fan, and actually considering cosplaying them (very nerdy, but they are kickass cool, and i guess you can understand me since you are making halo armour )

The suit is only in the planning stages, i'm not even sure if i'm going to go through with it.
But what i will need is a good way to free-form create the paper base for the armour without going insane, or someone who's willing to create a few models for the parts in a 3D program, since i'm having trouble putting together a simple gun for the moment in 3Ds max.

What i will need is a chest piece, upper arm pieces, wrist pieces, two upper hand plates, upper leg plates and two lower leg plates and two 2-piece foot pieces.

I realise this is looking like a request thread....

Is this all that i need? I have found a nice material for the robes (100% wool, mMmm) and i'm gonna figure out that sewing thing when i get to it.... if i get to it.

Is there other parts you feel i should get, the mask i found a nice one in a pepakura pack from mortal kombat, so that is not needed (just gonna have to figure out how to get it into real life.)

I don't think i will be needing a groin piece, since it is hidden, perhaps a only front mounted thing. (Haha,i don't need fiberglass underpants that itch and feel odd )

The weapon is another project.

Basically, i have no clue where to find pep files, and even free to use 3D files of this design, since the design is so uncommon.
I don't really know if i have thought of all the problems i'll have.
Where i will buy things is sorted, i don't have access to theese dollar stores, and WalMarts you have since i'm Swedish.

I don't even know if i should post this, seeing it is more of a request thread than a please help me thread or here is what i have done thread....

Basically i don't know anything which i hope you'll help me with.

Until next time.

Edit: I realised, i totally forgot the mechandrite and backpack, which would be swell if it could move somehow (the extra robot arm) so how to do that is also a problem.

 

[Zat German]

The armor is simple enough to just free form cut or hand draw some templates and cut and assemble it out of foam.

 

[Klomster]

Foam right...

What kind of foam, as i'm rather sure there can be alot of types, but i think i could understand the process.

A sturdy cheap foam (pink styrene?) to carefully sculpt the parts, and then.... fiberglass?
I guess i'm not thinking the right way but that seems a bit weak. Structural wise i mean.

I guess what you mean by simple is that it is composed out of several similar sized sections, like scales that are similar, and i could easily cut them out with foam/paper and then do the classic fiberglass approach.
But for larger parts, like the chest piece, i don't really know how to approach it.
Foam seems so unpractical since if you bend it it would ruin your paintjob, or it would break depending on which foam i use.

And i don't really know if there are any suppliers around here.
Had a hard time finding a swedish site that sold the resin.

 

[Zat German]

What kind of foam, as i'm rather sure there can be alot of types, but i think i could understand the process.

EVA foam, you can find it just about anywhere, in any country these days. There are a lot of threads about various builds with it. You use hot glue to connect the pieces together. Check out the whole Foam Armoring thread. I have three pages of subscriptions to foam threads if you want more references to learn more. PM me and I can send you the list.

But for larger parts, like the chest piece, i don't really know how to approach it.
Foam seems so unpractical since if you bend it it would ruin your paintjob, or it would break depending on which foam i use.

EVA foam would simply bend and then return to the same shape, assuming it is not too hot. It really is not that big a deal. Costumes are going to take damage and need repairs, that is just a fact of life. Besides, it is 40k and should be dark, dingy, dirty, scratched, scarred, marred, etc. Not prissy factory perfect.

 

[Klomster]

I can really see why you are commercialising about the foam approach.

It seems like a solid solution to many armours, and i think i would like similar foam as padding for an armour if i made it.
But as i see it, one unlucky move and your paintjob is ruined, while the similar move would perhaps only make a small scratch at most (that would indeed fit the grimdark wartorn look) as on a foam suit it would be a large patch of paint coming loose leaving black beneath, having me remove alot of paint and respraying the piece (i might be wrong, since i'm just speculating here.)

And of course, beeing a nerd, i would like a hard armour, actually sounding when you knock on it, having a rigid feel and knowing that i won't be stretching the foam, ruining the paint and stuff, but at most scratching the armour, which i can then fill in with a paintbrush and call it a day.

But i might be wrong, perhaps foam isn't that sensitive?
And i don't really know where to get similar mats in good quantity cheap.... and i want a second reason apart from trying out some molding for minis to get resin

Hope i don't appear as some bile spitting angroid or something (an angroid is a very nasty mechanicus fan, i have never met one myself, yes i just invented that.)

I'm just doing some material comparrisons, and foam beeing introduced as an option first time just now, i see it as a bit sensitive.
And in the videos (referring to the suit the Xcon guy in your link makes) it doesn't seem to have the same detail corners as a fiberglass construct, espescially since i'm horrible at making things straight, and beeing able to use filler to save some fails seems ideal

 

[Klomster]

Oh no, don't you get forgotten mr thread.

I haven't really gotten any ideas for the mechandrite.
And how do i create a chest piece out of paper on the fly in a smart way, since i have no pepakura for it.

I guess i could just use a halo piece, but i fear it would look out of place with the other pieces, since their style would be very different.

Also, i realised that if i'm gonna make any kind of mechandrite, i need a sturdy base, a flexible foam won't do as a base.

 

[Zat German]

And how do i create a chest piece out of paper on the fly in a smart way, since i have no pepakura for it.

Paper is cheap. Just cut out forms in the general shape you want and tape them together. Try it on and try to imagine the thicknesses. Just iterate on that until you get it to the look you want.

 

[Janitor101]

This costume plan looks very cool. I'm a fan of the Adeptus Mechanicus as well, and has been on my list of things to do someday.

As for the mechandrite, I found a hose, I think it was from an extendable sink faucet that looked just like it, but it was on the short side, I suggest looking in a Dome Depot or Lowe's for tubing that is about the right size. I don't think making them move 'realistically' would be cheap, so letting them hang like they're powered off woulds be easiest.

I'll be following this thread.

 

[Klomster]

The mechandrite would not be moved with motors ofcourse, that would be madness.

But more like a rig, that can be alternated to be in certain poses, and hold that pose.
Or alternatively, just be a neat prop that just sit there.

Would be nice to be able to fold it when entering doors though, since i'm a big guy.
180cm, i think that was a steady 6 feet, but i might be wrong.

Just trying pieces with paper until i get a good plan.... i was hoping i could have a bit more plan than that when approaching the build.
(The problem is that i'm pepped with this build now, but i am horrible at actually finishing projects, but i'm one hell of a problem solver.)

Just thinking of how to fill in the areas that have no real solution, like the arms.
How the armour stretches around the arms is not clear, since it doesn't seem to be only a set of scales, but rather scales on a arm piece.

And how to make the pistons? Just a tube with two dishes, one with a hole with a rod through?
And so many questions, and the one problem.

The only way i'm gonna solve them is if i decide to really start doing this build

I guess the thing i really want to do is to figure out smart ways of doing different things before throwing myself at something and get a result that is regrettable.

One idea i had for the arm piece is this.

Ignore the armour and paintjob except for in the armpit, you can clearly see how the shoulder plate is attached to the arm, with a band of armour going around it with an un-even shape.
(No, i did not paint it, i paint better , not to brag or anything.)

Perhaps that is a good solution?

Perhaps using a pepakura of a simple chest piece that exist, and then add the details that i want later.
But as mentioned before, it could look off design wise.

Any ideas?

 

[Janitor101]

You're just under 6 foot, you hit 70 inches which is 5' 10", I'm a big guy (195cm according to calculator).

As far as I can tell, the 'scales' are segmented armor tubes which connect to the previous piece of armor on the shoulder, so by building a series of slowly narrowing tubes that go down your arm you get that effect.

As for a chest piece, I think that your idea of finding a relatively blank part then detailing it is the best solution. Though it depends, are you trying to exactly copy that techpriest miniature? Or do a generic techpriest?

 

[afa]

man the servo would be hard/ heavy

 

[Klomster]

Doing the series of tubes would also work, but it would mean alot more work than making a big tube, and putting on the scales individually. (I guess.)
I would mean less tubular parts that needs to be connected to eachother.

Looking at the actual model suggest that the armour is composed that way. One big "tube" (me calling holy parts of the dagon scale simple tubes, heresy.) fitted with layers of scales.

And yes, the servo would be pretty hard to make, since i can't really come up with any good parts to fasten it to the backpack.
The problem is that i want it to fold, at least once.

And it wouldn't be as heavy as my initial plan for the halberd, a metal tube with welded plates and differently sized tubes attached at different locations .

I shall take a quick look through the existing chest pepakuras avaliable, the chest detail can be added in the forms of hoses and a fan holder or similar.

The general feel i would want from this suit is.
"-Look, that guy is dressed as a techpriest from dawn of war."
Instead of.
"-Why is that person wearing such a strange red robe?"

So it's the general feel i want, but still as similar as possible. Since the dragon scale looking like that is what makes it so cool.

And i will take no halfassed attempts of the mechandrite, either it looks badass, or i don't have any.
I've seen other attempts, and although nice tries, i just cant bear to see the flimsy looking things.

Examples.

Note weedy mechandrites. *Shudder*

These beeing very nice costumes, they have the problem of beeing just a strange robe, and would only fit a tech-adept or non-combatant who works secluded.
Not a techpriest of battle, whom rages into the conflict zone to help the wounded machines. Clad in holy ceramite and nigh invurnerble to the weak foes.

Plus 40k things cosplays should almost always have armour according to me, as even concept arts of nobles seem to have at least some armoured boots, a chestplate or shoulder plates.
Preferably all of the above.


Edit: I had a skim through the file index, and none of the torso armours struck me directly as fitting, what i need is a rather flat back with a simple rounded torso, with an open stomach where i will add a seperate plate like in the second OP picture on the first page.

Anyone know another file that fits my preferences?
Should i post this as a wish in the pepakura file wish section?

 

[Zat German]

Edit: I had a skim through the file index, and none of the torso armours struck me directly as fitting, what i need is a rather flat back with a simple rounded torso, with an open stomach where i will add a seperate plate like in the second OP picture on the first page.

Try looking at Hugh's ODST Chest Core in his thread.

 

[Klomster]

Thanks man, totally the kind of piece i had no idea existed, and simply ignored because of the addon that sits at its front in the full set.

I guess with some tweaking i could modify it so it's a slight bit more bulky in some areas.

So let's say i build this pep, how should i go about adding a backpack?
Modding the back completely to have it going backwards like a square, or is it smarter to attach another piece after fiberglassing?

I guess adding finished pieces is the proper approach, since i can easily bolt them in place even.

Oh, and note that the more important model is the actual tabletop model, the dawn of war model is lacking in some areas, like the arms aren't as great.

And i realised that both of the original models are not as i wanted.

Here is some pics of a model i've done. And what would be my character, techpriest Metallus Magnus Ohmnati, warrior of the mechanicus secutor. (An actual organisational name, not mispelled.)

Kinda crappy pic showing some of the backpack as it should be.

And a mood setting pic, photoshopped by me. (Very simple stuff, in a later incarnation i've added lightning to the blade.)

I hope people find it ok that i'm just keep posting questions and comment on all the ideas, since i want to plan ahead before beginning anything.
Something i guess alot of kids don't really do when first finding this site ?

 

[Klomster]

I have a tendency to double post it seems. at least i've got some more of my work to show.

Here is a concept plan of how i think the arms would be easiest to make.

I hope it is clear in the picture, the top piece, number 1 will go unto the main piece at the top.

The second piece, will have several copies, hence 2,3,4 EV.5.
The 3 or 4 pieces would then be added to create the scale effect as seen on the model.
A similar idea is what i had for the upper legs.

The top scale might have to be longer, to fully go beneath the shoulder plate.
And i guess i should make the upper armour plate split into two along the bolted sides, so i can put it on.

Any thoughts?

 

[Klomster]

Hmmm, i seem to update more often than the 405th care :/

Here is a freeform attempt at the arm details.

Showing a few pieces of paper, and some glue.

The only piece worth mentioning really is the shoulder piece.

The idea was that i first make simple shapes, then i detail those with filler (like bondo) making raised edges and adding some thickness in places.
Only problem is that i only have flat pieces of paper that don't hold their shape :/
Need to make a rig or get a better plan if i decide to go through with this.

 

[Will Turner]

Go get some floral foam and carve it into the general shape of your armor, then use styrene plastic, bondo, and potentially polyurethane resin to build up your details.

Then if you desire, you can mold your piece and make casts off of your original master.

If you follow through with that method, I recommend Dragonskin Quick for the molding silicone, and I recommend smoothcast 320 for quick casting.

I will recommend you check out Volpin Props as he has done an excellent weapon build using floral foam and a massive amount of dedication and time.

Best of luck.

(Also, we're all here, just busy outside of the props we build, patience is key)

 

[Klomster]

Dragonskin?

Fitting name Hope it exist in Sweden.


Volpin props?
I guess i shall check his work out, IIRC that foam you are referring to is ridicoulusly cheap and would work well as a temporary base for the paper so it doesn't buckle.

Edit: Checked out Volpin a bit on youtube (it's a girl? Might be to used with wargames gender setup.)

And the constructio method seems solid, problem is that i would have to do alot more steps and need to get alot of resources.
Like the mold materials, and mold compound.

And as i only planned to make a single suit (mind you, IF i decide to do it, only testing stuff out.)
This would make me avaliable to make several suit out of a single mold, and perhaps this is what you are trying to make me do?
Get me to do a mold so you can buy a fragon scale from me ?

But i will take making a foam base for the paper to rest on while resining to heart.

What kind of paper should i aim to use, since i did this with copying paper.