''molding'' Idea

[dallis]

Hey guys, sorry for posting this in the noob forum, i just thought it was the most apropriate place for a thread like this one,

anyways, i was laying in bed the other day , and i was all sad and whatnot becuase i didnt have much of a chance at getting my armour done in time for an upcoming con, but i had this 25 pound Mk 6 sculpt of a helmet in the corner of my room , and i was like.....hey! wait a minute, i remembered i had lots of (fibre) glass, and so i started thinking to myself if i could make the sculpts of armour (that i could manage with the 25 pounds that i have) and after i was done sculpting them i would cover it in saran wrap (by now alot of you are probly like wtf? ) and after that, glue some fibreglass into place around the whole sculpt to cover it, and i could start the resin process, hopefully by the end i would have a ''cast'' of a shin piece (since that is what i have sculpted right now) and i would be able to sand it and fix it up to look like the mjolnir shin piece, i would be able to do the shins, boots, forearms, biceps,possibly one thigh at a time, and (screw) the helmet,, if this process worked i would post a tutorial for a possibly new ''molding'' technique and sorry if this idea has already been produced, im kind of new to fibreglass, but anyways everybody , i would love for you to give me some feedback on this matter and thanks alot have a great day everyone!

Ps. i will try to get a picture up tomorrow of my shin sculpt, and you guys can give me input on it to see what needs fixing up on it, thanks again

 

[rvb4life]

first off, saran wrap would get decimated by polyester resin. it melts through trash bags, saran wrap doesnt have a chance.

second, thats basically what silicone molding is, except it is silicone or styrene (i dont know, ask a molder) instead of polyester based.

 

[dallis]

first off, saran wrap would get decimated by polyester resin. it melts through trash bags, saran wrap doesnt have a chance.

second, thats basically what silicone molding is, except it is silicone or styrene (i dont know, ask a molder) instead of polyester based.

covering the sculpt in paper and glueing the cracks? lol im really desperate for this

 

[rvb4life]

the best way is not the cheapest.

i had the idea of a hot glue cast, but that would fail, i think.

 

[dallis]

the best way is not the cheapest.

i had the idea of a hot glue cast, but that would fail, i think.

not a full cast of hot glue, cuz i would lose lots of access clay in the process, just glue in certain spots where i needed it , i just really need this armour done soon

 

[AoBfrost]

the best way is not the cheapest.

i had the idea of a hot glue cast, but that would fail, i think.

I thought of this looooooonnnnggggg time ago. Works/fails. Depending on the material the mold is made out of, the heat of the glue could damage the original mold, or if it works, it cant be worn on really hot days, it would soften and possibly melt. I only do crazy stuff with hot glue like this if it;s going to sit on a shelf and look pretty. If I am going to make something usable, I make it with resin and glass.

Also, the plastic wrap would cover a major amount of detail, plus, it would leave lots of over folds and creases, you cant ever 100% put plastic wrap on smoothly, especially on such a curvy and detailed piece. Plus like others have said, resin will eat it for breakfast.

I had a better idea though, for 15-20 dollars a gallon, you can use bondo and some release agent and coat the piece with bondo in 2 half molds. Once the bondo cures, You can fiberglass the outside of the bondo shell to strengthen it. Once the resin and glass cures, you can remove the bondo mess and you should have a mother mold. Not sure where you can go from there, but if you might be able to make a mud cast from it, using some release agent so the 2 bondo hunks dont stick together.

Just an idea, but it might work. You might want to try small scale first on a hand plate or something. But it is something to think about. If you can successfully make a mother mold this way, it's cheaper than silicon.

 

[Ixius]

I thought of this looooooonnnnggggg time ago. Works/fails. Depending on the material the mold is made out of, the heat of the glue could damage the original mold, or if it works, it cant be worn on really hot days, it would soften and possibly melt. I only do crazy stuff with hot glue like this if it;s going to sit on a shelf and look pretty. If I am going to make something usable, I make it with resin and glass.

Also, the plastic wrap would cover a major amount of detail, plus, it would leave lots of over folds and creases, you cant ever 100% put plastic wrap on smoothly, especially on such a curvy and detailed piece. Plus like others have said, resin will eat it for breakfast.

I had a better idea though, for 15-20 dollars a gallon, you can use bondo and some release agent and coat the piece with bondo in 2 half molds. Once the bondo cures, You can fiberglass the outside of the bondo shell to strengthen it. Once the resin and glass cures, you can remove the bondo mess and you should have a mother mold. Not sure where you can go from there, but if you might be able to make a mud cast from it, using some release agent so the 2 bondo hunks dont stick together.

Just an idea, but it might work. You might want to try small scale first on a hand plate or something. But it is something to think about. If you can successfully make a mother mold this way, it's cheaper than silicon.

Frost, sorry if I'm reading your post wrong, but instead of using bondo as the casting material with a fiberglass mother mold, why not just...make a fiberglass mold?

Ixius

 

[dallis]

You all have interesting ideas, but im not sure how to decide on this , i was thinking of using acetone and styrofoam, but that may warp the clay so im not all too sure

 

[AoBfrost]

Frost, sorry if I'm reading your post wrong, but instead of using bondo as the casting material with a fiberglass mother mold, why not just...make a fiberglass mold?

Ixius

I thought of that, but say you have a pepakura piece, say the helmet, release agent of any kind, in touch with resin itself wont work out right. The fiberglass would directly cure onto the helmet and not come off. Bondo is different since it's more of a "putty", I've peeled bondo off some of my pep pieces before when I have screwed up in certain spots, it isnt easy, but with some sort of release agent to separate the two, it could come off easier.

Again, this is just all an idea, no testing done yet.

EDIT:

This guy decided to do all my testing for me, he molded a fish from mud, then reinforced the mother mold on the outside with fiberglass mat.

http://www.knuthart.com/joshua/blog/?p=13

I guess a bondo mold will work and petroleum jelly could be used as the release agent, but still no testing on something large like a helmet.

 

[antzombie280]

hey this is a bit off topic but what kind of clay are you using and where did you get it?

 

[Jax Archillies]

none of that wouidl work well, if at all.

you SHOULD (have to) go with the smooth-on route of coating your master with rebound-25 a rubber silicone material that is flexable. coat that with a fiberglass jacket. they will all seperate without the need for a release agent.

none of the otehr ways (i hate to say so) will work with any degree of success and get you what you want. great getting those minds working, but sorry.

it costs about 200 or so for the silicone and about 100 for the plastic. you can pull maybe 2 helmets out of that depending on how thick you pour it.

 

[dallis]

none of that wouidl work well, if at all.

you SHOULD (have to) go with the smooth-on route of coating your master with rebound-25 a rubber silicone material that is flexable. coat that with a fiberglass jacket. they will all seperate without the need for a release agent.

none of the otehr ways (i hate to say so) will work with any degree of success and get you what you want. great getting those minds working, but sorry.

it costs about 200 or so for the silicone and about 100 for the plastic. you can pull maybe 2 helmets out of that depending on how thick you pour it.

But that is the exact reason i wanted to do it a cheaper way, cuz i dont have that ammount of money to use on materials, plus school is around the corner so it will be even harder, im going to try it anyways and see what i come up with ,

 

[Jax Archillies]

okay.... but its not going to work at all.

if you want cheaper. try the rubber silicone from michaels. i think its 12 bucks USD a can, but youll need several depending on what youre going to mold....

which is what BTW? everything? you might as well save up. im really not trying to put a damper on your idea, but i dont want to see you waste your time learning how not to do something.

i would start out with just the handplate, and the michaels silicon rubber. try that way first just to see how it works. the cost is very minimal, perhaps...30 bucks tops.

if youre interested in how to do it that way, let me know and ill talk you through it. its pretty much fool proof. with a peice that small.

 

[Ixius]

I thought of that, but say you have a pepakura piece, say the helmet, release agent of any kind, in touch with resin itself wont work out right. The fiberglass would directly cure onto the helmet and not come off. Bondo is different since it's more of a "putty", I've peeled bondo off some of my pep pieces before when I have screwed up in certain spots, it isnt easy, but with some sort of release agent to separate the two, it could come off easier.

Again, this is just all an idea, no testing done yet.

EDIT:

This guy decided to do all my testing for me, he molded a fish from mud, then reinforced the mother mold on the outside with fiberglass mat.

http://www.knuthart.com/joshua/blog/?p=13

I guess a bondo mold will work and petroleum jelly could be used as the release agent, but still no testing on something large like a helmet.

Consider myself corrected Frost, nice link. Touche

Ixius

 

[netdata]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I noticed someone mention Hot Glue Cast,
that actually works awesome for certain parts, but you gotta have a mold first.

I dont know if anybody has seen this guys work but he uses Hot Glue and then sculpts
it a little bit to clean up whatever piece hes working on:

http://www.bioweapons.com/Costuming.htm

The section showing the hot glue piece:

http://www.bioweapons.com/ThermoForm.htm

Hope this information helps someone.

 

[Jax Archillies]

i woudl disagree with bondo being used as a mold...

its not flexable like a mold needs to be. you'll try and pull the bondo off the helmet and it will crumble and snap, not to mention youd have to have the bondo several inches thick in places, so drying it properly will take eons.

 

[dallis]

im looking at was sonofaglitch just recommended and im seriously leaning towards doing it his way, it looks like a very good way to do it

 

[AoBfrost]

Because bondo isnt flexible, that doesnt mean it wont work as a mother mold. In the stormtrooper world, every man and his dog used plaster and molded clay sculpts with it. It doesnt flex, but you just gotta pry the two apart without breaking them, if you fiberglass the outside of the bondo mold, it shouldnt break that easily.

I have nothing to test on, but it should in theory work.

Also, hot glue casting, I did this once and it does work and take form very well, but it'll melt and soften with the heat from your body, wearing armor is very hot, you sacrifice your comfort for coolness.

A guy molded a fish, he used no release agent, and he pulled the mother mold off his fish easily. Now I know the fish is soft, but when he molded the other side, the two halves came apart with no harm and captured all detail.

A simple part like a hand plate could be easily tested because it's one sided, taking it out would be easy too.

 

[dallis]

well im glad to know theres still some sort of molding technique, plus the plaster is super affordable


here are some pics of my work so far
[attachment=6088:front_shin_2.JPG]

Please note it still needs lots of work , and please give me some ideas on what i can do you make it the best i can

 

[Jax Archillies]

thats a nice clay sculpt. why not just do it the right way. plaster will break and isnt flexable like it needs to be when you pull it off the mold.

im done discussing this....