"Muckle-tastic"
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Sean Bradley
Sr Member
In my opinion (for whatever thats worth) it's not a big deal because so many copies were made and distributed initially.
I'd rather see molded copies being frankensteined rather than original statue pieces being destroyed.
I wrestled with this before making my costume. I had contacted a seller with an offer to 'rent' his statue for the purposes of molding it. The deal fell through and I was left high and dry.
Afterward making my suit I was contacted by a different owner of a Muckle statue about making some updated casts. I would mold the statue, then make upgrades to the original sculpt to make it more Halo 3 -tastic.. I rationalized this to be okay because I was changing the sculpture, so that the copies would be distinct and therefore a seperate entity..
That deal too has sorta fallen on the back burner. Dunno if the contact still wants the work done..
In short, I still believe that if it saves a statue, its better to recast a muckle. But maybe thats just my opinion.
I'd rather see molded copies being frankensteined rather than original statue pieces being destroyed.
I wrestled with this before making my costume. I had contacted a seller with an offer to 'rent' his statue for the purposes of molding it. The deal fell through and I was left high and dry.
Afterward making my suit I was contacted by a different owner of a Muckle statue about making some updated casts. I would mold the statue, then make upgrades to the original sculpt to make it more Halo 3 -tastic.. I rationalized this to be okay because I was changing the sculpture, so that the copies would be distinct and therefore a seperate entity..
That deal too has sorta fallen on the back burner. Dunno if the contact still wants the work done..
In short, I still believe that if it saves a statue, its better to recast a muckle. But maybe thats just my opinion.
The general "rule of thumb" is licensed gear is sort of open for casting and modding, a number of amazing fanmade star wars helmet kits have their roots in recast MR's and various other higher end brands. The best Bacara's and Neyo's all started out as bootlegged MR's. It is entirely different than fan made stuff. You leave fan made stuff alone, because if you cut off the creators method of funding builds, you cut off the supply of original work. It takes a special type of person to spend the amount of time and money it takes to create a quality replica, some people study reference images for months before even starting a build, it can take someone a year to make a helmet kit in their garage, If you then recast it, its a massive kick in the nuts to the sculptor. Companies generally cant afford this luxury of time, they knock out what ever the item is, usually made by a sculptor with no love for the project in order to get it to market (look at the rubies costume). 1;1 scale licensed works are usually just promotional tools, that are made as limited one offs. I think of them as 3d add banners. A fanmade object, on the other hand, is a 3d representation of a persons love for a particular design, or passion for a character. People should feel honoured to own a copy, Recasting someone's work, is like stomping on their heart. There has been a change in recent years as to the quality of things companies offer, but it is still and probably always will be light years behind what a talented home builder with no deadline to meet can do.
SPARTAN II
Sr Member
Sean Bradley said:
BOLD # 1:
BOLD # 2: Others I know in the hobby tend to look at it that way, too. Generally, if someone makes significant alterations to 25% or more of the original piece, vastly improving it's quality and accuracy to what the piece should ideally look like, then it's not really the same item and has become another representation in its own right, only having "borrowed" some of its design elements from something "similar".
As has been very logically pointed out in the past by other prop enthusiats I know, whether it's Star Trek, Star Wars or HALO, pretty much everything we make is a copy of someone else's work, even if it's just in terms of using the in-game models to create Pep files and work from those. Yes, we all add our own personal creativity to what we make, but essentially it's all based on what someone made before.
It's certainly not original material we're making here, as it wasn't us who created the HALO universe. So, it's easier to understand if looking at it from that point of view.
BOLD # 3:
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I remember adam said he modded the original muckle parts to be more accurate and detailed for the halo 3 styled suit. So really he didnt make a 100% copy of the statue as his final suit. Like sean said, it's just the base and you work upon it to make it a new creation.
SPARTAN II
Sr Member
Exactly... well put, Frost
Adam
Forum Founder
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I think of it like this. The sculptor of the Muckle has been paid, and is no longer making those statues. We're not making something that is competing with his business in any way. He's not losing money from us recasting that.
Even though I modded most parts of that suit, I say it's OK for people to recast the parts I send to them.
Stuff I make from scratch however, that I'm still trying to offer, and still make, so since it came from my pocket and my efforts initially, I don't want anyone recasting things like my AR.
Even though I modded most parts of that suit, I say it's OK for people to recast the parts I send to them.
Stuff I make from scratch however, that I'm still trying to offer, and still make, so since it came from my pocket and my efforts initially, I don't want anyone recasting things like my AR.
Adam said:
So when you move on to a new AR model the new one is up for recasting, or your previous models are now up for recasting?
That's the logic that is used. Its ok to recast older work not in production, like you said. Its recasts of recasts of recasts, nothing is our own. There is a lot of hypocrisy and I understand wanting your money back and putting into a new project but the hatred shouldn't be so bad for the ones that do it, since ya know, you're a recaster. Like Link's pistols, if those were new pistols will soon be able to be recasted if he makes another model, by the way the logic goes, and I haven't seen one of his magnums for sale in long time, so those are fair... right..right????
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Walter Spase
Well-Known Member
By your logic TheRob, the helmets made from my original mold would be up for recasting as I have since made a new mold with updated details with better mold construction... do I want people recasting my work, from either mold... No.
If someone bought one of my helmets, and wanted to recast it so they had two... sure go ahead... but you could save time money effort, and yes, money, by just purchasing two... now if you wanted to make ten copies of my helmet... then we have a problem, because what do you as a person want 10 copies for...
Make back up copies for personal use would be one thing... but there better be no intent to distribute.
But whats the ultimate reason for recasting?.... you didn't make it in the first place, but you want to make money off it? or are you recasting it so you can have 5 of the object sitting around your home....
If your in it to make money, spend some first, and sweat a little in your creation.
I am not in it for the money really... hence the reason why I now sell casting for so much cheaper... if you want to build a pep... go ahead.. if you want to by something that cuts out the pep work, and costs about the same, then come see me, I can help you out. Its a service to a community of prop builders and costume enthusiasts.
The definitive answers for all of your recasting questions fall on the creator. Contact the creator and ask them how they'd feel about it.
If someone bought one of my helmets, and wanted to recast it so they had two... sure go ahead... but you could save time money effort, and yes, money, by just purchasing two... now if you wanted to make ten copies of my helmet... then we have a problem, because what do you as a person want 10 copies for...
Make back up copies for personal use would be one thing... but there better be no intent to distribute.
But whats the ultimate reason for recasting?.... you didn't make it in the first place, but you want to make money off it? or are you recasting it so you can have 5 of the object sitting around your home....
If your in it to make money, spend some first, and sweat a little in your creation.
I am not in it for the money really... hence the reason why I now sell casting for so much cheaper... if you want to build a pep... go ahead.. if you want to by something that cuts out the pep work, and costs about the same, then come see me, I can help you out. Its a service to a community of prop builders and costume enthusiasts.
The definitive answers for all of your recasting questions fall on the creator. Contact the creator and ask them how they'd feel about it.
TheRob said:
I do not agree. We make a Tac Vest that a pic was sent to us by the pep that ordered it. I later got a Call from the guy that made the one it the pic. He ask what was up the one the we made was so close the the pic he though the one we were selling (pic for ) was lifted form him. I told him what happened, and that we would not offer them any more. He gave us the ok to sell them and that was that.
We also got some guns at D-con that may be coppys of Links (He sill will not com over and tell me if they are or not) but I pit a out of stock up on the web.
If some one makes an item it is bad form to recast that item. If it is an old item there is a reason there is a new one coming out. Make the old one avable agen will take $ out of there pocket.
My armor is bassed on the M.$. statue with some (Need More) modding but it is NOT being sold as a M.$. statue Costume to cos-play in. Thats the BIG point I think. There was some rat in Cal that though it would cool to offer a WS MC armor on E-bay (With MY PICS) for $3000.00
I did not like it sense I never sold him 1 and there were like 6 avb.
So if you get some item do not recasts for the same perpess that some one else made it for with out asking.
Yea my E-11 blaster scope is a recasts of the Army scope. (Sorry Uncle Sam)
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Adam said:
I Had the 6'8" statue. merely because i wnated it. however i made a suit for myself. and i did some damaged spares. which Adam who is a good buddy, did a trade and i sent him my spares.
I think it needs to be pointed out, that.. yes. Recasting is Bad.
Mass produced pieces by multimillion dollar companies.. eh... not as bad but still not good.
if it were recasting NMA or BR, or Richies and so on.. thats bad. Really bad. a guy has sunk his Personal time and person funds into a project which i disaprove of totally.
With reguards to the 6'8". 500 were made only. but.. to be honest.. as i'm sure Adam will tell you.. the pieces weren't amazingly detailed. Great from a distance or in passing but close up.. they were Really lacking in alot of place. But Adam in my honest opinion has done an amazing job with his suit Far beyond what i thought he was capible and i'm glad he's proved me wrong and as proof.. he's now doing Dell adverts.. lol
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BARBARIC RAGE
Member
Afterward making my suit I was contacted by a different owner of a Muckle statue about making some updated casts. I would mold the statue, then make upgrades to the original sculpt to make it more Halo 3 -tastic.. I rationalized this to be okay because I was changing the sculpture, so that the copies would be distinct and therefore a seperate entity..
That deal too has sorta fallen on the back burner. Dunno if the contact still wants the work done..
In short, I still believe that if it saves a statue, its better to recast a muckle. But maybe thats just my opinion.
[/quote]
I just stumbled upon this thread and I would like to throw in my 2 cents...
After lengthy discussions with Sean, I agree that a complete recast is not the way to go...and not so much for the legal aspects, but for the lack of creativity. Adam has done a phenomenal job bringing life to the Muckle statue, as Corpseguy pointed out. I believe if significant creative changes are made, then it's not only a tribute to the original sculptors (Marc and Gabby Klinnert of Australia: www.studiooxmox.com), but it adds subtle, yet unique character to an already cool 3D physical representation of the Chief.
As far as the back burner goes...yeah, Sean- I am in the process of house hunting; however, I still have the statue and I am still down with the project. I have just had to stack the resources for the inevitable move that is coming sooner than later. Don't count me out! I am still down with the program, real life just got in the way for a moment
...there is my 2 cents...for what it's worth
That deal too has sorta fallen on the back burner. Dunno if the contact still wants the work done..
In short, I still believe that if it saves a statue, its better to recast a muckle. But maybe thats just my opinion.
[/quote]
I just stumbled upon this thread and I would like to throw in my 2 cents...
After lengthy discussions with Sean, I agree that a complete recast is not the way to go...and not so much for the legal aspects, but for the lack of creativity. Adam has done a phenomenal job bringing life to the Muckle statue, as Corpseguy pointed out. I believe if significant creative changes are made, then it's not only a tribute to the original sculptors (Marc and Gabby Klinnert of Australia: www.studiooxmox.com), but it adds subtle, yet unique character to an already cool 3D physical representation of the Chief.
As far as the back burner goes...yeah, Sean- I am in the process of house hunting; however, I still have the statue and I am still down with the project. I have just had to stack the resources for the inevitable move that is coming sooner than later. Don't count me out! I am still down with the program, real life just got in the way for a moment
...there is my 2 cents...for what it's worth
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