Practical Armor Development

Claws61821

New Member
I stumbled across the 405th a couple years back when I was thinking about donning a Mjolnir suit for Halloween and had no knowledge of how to make or where to buy one (at least, one that wasn't paper-thin plastic in the latter case; ironically, the local costume shop where I was living at the time got one in for display a week after that Halloween with a ~$1000 tag). Since that time, I have occasionally spent a few hours at a time browsing these forums, searching other websites and generally researching and brainstorming ideas for how to make a sci-fi-inspired armor-suit and what gear to equip within it, with the general intention of having fun and perhaps marketing the final product or its components.

At this point, it should probably be noted that I am rather terrible at structured research, note-taking and generally focusing on anything except what I may be interested in reading, playing or discussing at any given moment. :p It should also be noted that the most important of what notes I did have got lost out of my computer/messenger bag when I moved states a few months back (how? Wish I knew).

As seems to be the norm, I've largely been targeting the security sectors and costumer markets in my mental conceptualizing, although off-road racers (specifically 4x4ATV racers) and motorcyclists have also been locked within my imagined sights, as it were.

For the sake of simplicity and tribute, I plan to model the prototype suit (i.e. the Proof of Concept) after the Mjolnir Mk. V and VI. The actual outfit itself will consist of a breathable undersuit, a flexible suit of internal soft armor, a modular external hardsuit and the obligatory helmet.

The undersuit is to be skintight with soft circuits as ECG and EMG leads. It may also include a hood with EEG leads which will also help prevent hair from snagging in the helmet.

The first layer of armor will consist of a rubbery material or a fibrous material such as M5. Which material is used will depend on whether the suit is the prototype or a marketed version and on whether it needs to be airtight for chemical defense purposes. It will also contain the body-cooling system once the method is decided and may contain magnets for attaching the hardsuit and circuitry for some of the gear.

The outer layer of the armor will be hardened fibers, magnets (for weapons storage, etc.) and circuitry. It will contain the main power supply and may contain a computer.

The helmet will be of the same material as the hardsuit (or as DOT helmets, if it can be managed). It will contain a separate cooling and air filtration system, a communications suite, a radar system or suite, lights, a computer, an HMD (set ~3+ in. from face, in shield), a secondary power supply (possibly) and 3+ ext. data ports (1 fiber-optic scope/camera, 1+ transfer port, 1+ storage port). Current design resembles a modular motorcycle helmet.

--

The face shield will be double-, perhaps triple-layered, with the outermost layer following the production tutorial drawn up by Redshirt. The additional layer(s) will be to provide photocromic eye-protection and a surface upon which to mount the LCD-film for the HMD.

The RADAR suite will have 2+ omni-directional antennae for a FM-CW system with, elevation, ground-penetration and motion tracking and will connect to the comms. for networking with identical units and FoF tagging.

The communications suite will have encrypted 802.11x MIMO for FoF tagging, RADAR networking and video and data communication - audio (radio) may be by the same system or a separate one. Two cameras will provide an external view for recording and communication and an internal view for squad communication. Two internally-placed noise-cancelling speakers will provide protection against sonic assault while leaving the wearer capable of hearing environmental noise and conversing with noncombatants and unarmored combatants; an internal microphone and external speaker networked to the internal speakers will enable clear projection of the wearer's voice to aforementioned individuals. The internal speakers and microphone will also be used in radio communication and a window on the HMD will display video during communication when available.

The fiber-optic scope will contain a camera at the end of a posable length of tube. The other end may connect to an external dataport in the helmet and the image will be displayed in the HMD.

Another camera, with a pressure toggle for activation, will provide a digital near-real-time image of a distant target to the HMD across the circuitry within the armor. SLR or other beam-splitting technology will allow traditional use of the scope without requiring the removal of the camera. This system will be separate from the aforementioned scope-link dataport.

The cooling system in the helmet will consist of 5-9 small computer fans (or similar) and a similar quantity of respirator filters.

The computer in the helmet will control all of the above systems and the cooling system in the main armor. It will also read the signals from the medical leads and stream the data to the HMD and to a file. This file will be finalized at the end of ten minutes and automatically streamed to Base, unless wearer is Running Silent or no base is available, and a new file will be created. Data from all input sources will stream first to the computer for processing, then to HMD and/or file and/or output device. Embedded flash memory will be physically mounted to the main board for storage and operation.

----

Obviously, whether I'm going to actually market it as has been 'strongly suggested' to me whenever I've mentioned the topic or merely keep it around as a novelty, it first needs to be constructed. Unfortunately, much of the technology is either unavailable in man-worn (or even man-portable) form or must be otherwise reconfigured to fit the spatial constraints. Much of the remaining technology had construction and configuration resources online in the late '90s and early 2000s that have since become improbable to locate or nearly so. As a result, most of this project will likely require engineering expertise which I most certainly lack, although I am open to some alternative suggestion and can eventually approach engineers of my own prior acquaintance for assistance when their workloads lessen.

----

"BLARGH!"

Translation: Deathly Wall of Text

"Thanks, Sheila!"
 

CoolC

Well-Known Member
Welcome to 405th. I will be honest, I did not read any of what you post here for one reason: it is too long. 405th is a community that come together on how to build costumes. Post like this gets frown upon. It is easy to say my "dream" armor, or my "wish" list. Unless if you have something to show for, don't expect to get any response. You can brainstorm, but at your leisure. If you expect members here to give you feedback on your ideas, you are out of luck. It is one thing to say I "want" to do this and that. When you actually start doing it, it is a whole different story. Please read all the stickies and understand what it takes to make an armor. View some videos on YouTube and understand how complex or easy to build your dream costumes. Here is a piece of advice, go slow and go easy. It is much more enjoyable if you complete a costume that is easy and wearable than working on a costume that you can never get to complete.
 

ventrue

Well-Known Member
Well, I tried to read it, I stumbled when you mentioned cars (because that's kind of off topic, right? CoolC has a point about making it short :)), I wondered when you said something about measuring heartbeats and brainwaves but I really did stop reading and only skimmed the rest when I read airtight and chemical defense purpose. This is not the kind of thing you build in your garage, simply because you can't.

Some of these ideas are strange anyways: Nobody uses something as flimsy as magnets to attach something as vital as a weapon. Why do computer and radar need to be in the helmet, and why does an infantryman need a radar at all? (Edit: And most importantly... how are you going to power all this anyways?)
 

Claws61821

New Member
Thanks, CoolC. I honestly didn't notice how long it was getting until right near the end, by which time it was a pretty moot point. The really sad part about that is the fact I'm fairly certain the actual list would have been longer a few months ago, although the details rather more vague - like I said above, I lost some of my notes in the move.
If you expect members here to give you feedback on your ideas, you are out of luck.
I suppose I should have expected that. Really, I wanted to try to discuss the peculiarities and feasibilities of the mentioned equipment, but didn't want to flood the subforum with new threads - I'm a local newb, but I generally try to avoid becoming a noob, if anyone else here recalls the difference from years back.
....go slow and go easy. It is much more enjoyable....
LOL
Yeah, I had pretty much picked up on that from intermittent lurking and watching a few of the YT vids. Even if I hadn't, I try not to rush things or overwork myself, anyway, because of a recurring medical condition that's exacerbated by stress.

I don't suppose you have any ideas what I should be asking for where to get bulk quantities of foam like what Sean Bradley used for his ODST Backpack build?
 

Agent Arizona

Well-Known Member
Partner, there is nothing practical about this. I took the time to read through all the major points and i think you are crazy to even think about this for your first costume.

Is obvious that you have never worn a suit of armor before. Let me tell you, its not easy like the game makes it. Its not even close in comparison. Video game physics have a way of cheating real world ones. Dont take this the wrong way but im going to point of the faults here.

1: This type of thread is not allow like CoolC said. WIP threads are about what you have and how you will proceed, not "I plan this"
2: The cost of this is going to be off the charts. Like in the thousands. If you think you can do this with hundred you are mistaken
3: Most of what you plan to add into the armor is useless. Theres no need to add things like radar when no one else will even care its there. it wont even have use for you either. radios wont do you any good either becuase no one will be on the other end. Keep things simple.
4: You are not allowed to sell armor for profit. There are legal action with Microsoft and Bungie here.

Prop are not made to be practical. The're made for the enjoyment of making them and to show to others. Not battle ready military grade with the works. Even though you said you dont do research, You really need to before you start anything.

Remember what Gunny said in Halo 3: "Just remember to take things slow"
 
I personally love to read threads like this!
They're very inspirational to me. Thanks for posting this! Although, I agree; take into consideration what my fellow members above me just posted. Just wanted to say I like these ideas.
 

Claws61821

New Member
Well, I tried to read it, I stumbled when you mentioned cars
Ahh...I wasn't talking about cars; I was talking about ATVs - 4x4 motorcycles, basically. Sorry, I tend to ramble - it's a bad habit I'll never get over.
....I wondered when you said something about measuring heartbeats and brainwaves--
Heartbeat, brainwaves and muscular activity, to be accurate. Your simple generic 3-in-1 Health Bar. ;) There are people working to make them 'open-source' (their words, not mine), I'm just taking it a step further to man-worn. Think a Holter Monitor with a full 12-lead readout plus the other graphs.
--but I really did stop reading and only skimmed the rest when I read airtight and chemical defense purpose. This is not the kind of thing you build in your garage, simply because you can't.
You see! Right there! That is the sort of thing I came here to find out! Thx, Ventrue.
-As a sidenote, the main reasons I wondered about this were Redshirt's Visor (Shield, technically) Tut and all the convos about accurate undersuits.
--Actually, if you think about it, the respirator filters (I assume that's part of where you got chem def, aside from me just using the term to quicken recognition?) and fans would probably work as just simple O2 scrubbers for a Con day...
Some of these ideas are strange anyways: Nobody uses something as flimsy as magnets to attach something as vital as a weapon.
The flimsiness you mention is largely a quality of the quantity, size and type of magnets used. In actuality, a lot of people these days are storing weapons on strips attached to rare-earth magnets for ready access during home and office invasions. I can't honestly say I presently recall any stories of real people doing the same in the field, as it were, but it is how the Halo series weapons are described as sticking to the Mjolnir armor in-universe.
Why do computer and radar need to be in the helmet, and why does an infantryman need a radar at all?
Okay, part of that was me nerding out, I'll admit. On the other hand, successful integration would provide a practical advantage in battle tactics for our troops once the bugs were worked out. The computer - which need not be incredibly advanced or powerful for the purposes mentioned - is just there to keep everything functioning and to keep it all working together. The RADAR is useful when man-worn for much the same reason as it is in a stationary installation - advance warning of assault and ambush. That's why you see it so often in games like Halo, the very novelty of its presence notwithstanding. I selected FM-CW for its similarity to that seen in the games and for the fact people have already networked simple man-portable units (i.e. temp field-installation) using netbooks.

Of interesting note is the fact that everything I've mentioned in my OP is already around in larger or alternately-configured form and that much of the concept is similar to a DoD project from the '70s and '80s that was scrapped when nearing completion. You learn all sorts of things in discussions with engineers who have spent decades in the military.
 

Claws61821

New Member
Partner, there is nothing practical about this. I took the time to read through all the major points and i think you are crazy to even think about this for your first costume.

Is obvious that you have never worn a suit of armor before. Let me tell you, its not easy like the game makes it.
While you are correct that I have not worn armor before, I am well aware of the present effects of suspension of belief.
Its not even close in comparison. Video game physics have a way of cheating real world ones. Dont take this the wrong way but im going to point of the faults here.

1: This type of thread is not allow like CoolC said. WIP threads are about what you have and how you will proceed, not "I plan this"
Technically speaking, CoolC did not say it was disallowed - merely discouraged due the lack of likely activity. Furthermore, in my time lurking prior to registration, I have never found any ruling against creative discussion and debate prior or unrelated to production (quite the opposite, in fact), nor one that all threads must reference works currently in production. There is also nowhere else I could have placed this thread at my current forum rank, to my current knowledge.
2: The cost of this is going to be off the charts. Like in the thousands. If you think you can do this with hundred you are mistaken
*looks around for the 'Captain Obvious' emoticon*
3: Most of what you plan to add into the armor is useless. Theres no need to add things like radar when no one else will even care its there. it wont even have use for you either. radios wont do you any good either becuase no one will be on the other end. Keep things simple.
4: You are not allowed to sell armor for profit. There are legal action with Microsoft and Bungie here.
These two comments tell me that, despite your claim, you did not, in fact, 'read through all the major points.' 'Most of what plan to add into the armor' is only useless to the basic costumers, and then only to those with little imagination. I specifically mentioned that my intention for this was to develop the installed equipment for use by troops and by racers. RADAR, in addition to the uses listed in my previous reply to Ventrue, would also help those racing 4x4 All-Terrain Vehicles to avoid crashing into each other and into stubborn obstacles - such as tall trees and large boulders - and to keep track of their own race positions. Radios may '[not] do [me] any good' in the traditional manner, but properly integrating them into a helmet would allow racers and troops and costumers at conventions to remain in contact when necessary or appreciated without having to carry around more bulky equipment.

Regarding sales, there is absolutely nothing against selling armor costumes that do not directly use others' intellectual property, which all but my mentioned prototype or proof of concept would not - even were that not the case, I could dodge that legal bullet by selling only the equipment develloped this way.
Prop are not made to be practical. The're made for the enjoyment of making them and to show to others. Not battle ready military grade with the works. Even though you said you dont do research, You really need to before you start anything.

Remember what Gunny said in Halo 3: "Just remember to take things slow"

Actually, I said that I wan't the best at research and that I don't keep notes - that's somewhat different from not researching at all. I understand that props are not often meant to be practical - but often has never been a synonym for ever, and many stage props throughout history have, in fact, proven quite practical in their own ways. That aside, I do appreciate what I believe to have been the sentiment behind your post and, moreso, I appreciate the opportunity it presented for me to explain my case.

Thank you, Agent Arizona.
 

matth101

Well-Known Member
pope-tldr.jpg
 

Claws61821

New Member
I personally love to read threads like this!
They're very inspirational to me. Thanks for posting this! Although, I agree; take into consideration what my fellow members above me just posted. Just wanted to say I like these ideas.

Thank you, Tsaboc. I'm very much the inspirator when I can be, and have long been rather fond of both creating and helping expound such threads myself.
 

ventrue

Well-Known Member
Ahh...I wasn't talking about cars; I was talking about ATVs - 4x4 motorcycles, basically. Sorry, I tend to ramble - it's a bad habit I'll never get over.

Ah well, I'm not a car guy. Don't even try to explain how a vehicle with only two wheels can be 4x4 :)

Heartbeat, brainwaves and muscular activity, to be accurate. Your simple generic 3-in-1 Health Bar. ;) There are people working to make them 'open-source' (their words, not mine), I'm just taking it a step further to man-worn. Think a Holter Monitor with a full 12-lead readout plus the other graphs.

And how would a health bar be useful on the battlefield? A real soldier usually notices that he's got a badly bleeding hole somewhere, there's no need for the HUD to flash red and show a blinking health bar.

You see! Right there! That is the sort of thing I came here to find out! Thx, Ventrue.
-As a sidenote, the main reasons I wondered about this were Redshirt's Visor (Shield, technically) Tut and all the convos about accurate undersuits.
--Actually, if you think about it, the respirator filters (I assume that's part of where you got chem def, aside from me just using the term to quicken recognition?) and fans would probably work as just simple O2 scrubbers for a Con day...

No, the "chemical defense purposes" were a literal quote from your post. And you don't get chemical defense by making it airtight (which is reeeally uncomfortable by the way, you realise that, right?) and hot-glueing a 3M painter's respirator into the helmet. The whole setup would probably require you to detach yourself from a face-mask and actually seal the helmet to the rest of the suit in the neck area. This also has to be easy to use, reliable and sturdy. It has to be adaptable to any wearer. The filters need to be cheap, last a long time and easily replaceable on the way.

The flimsiness you mention is largely a quality of the quantity, size and type of magnets used. In actuality, a lot of people these days are storing weapons on strips attached to rare-earth magnets for ready access during home and office invasions. I can't honestly say I presently recall any stories of real people doing the same in the field, as it were, but it is how the Halo series weapons are described as sticking to the Mjolnir armor in-universe.

The flimsyness is the result of the fact that you need to be able to remove the weapon without help. Once you can do that, the weapon can also slide off on its own if you move the wrong way. This just isn't practical. Aside from the possibility of losing it: The times where weapons were 100% steel are long gone, chances are that the weapon we're talking about isn't even magnetic. And even if we assume that you can make it work: Whoever is going to wear this suit is going to have enough to carry, he won't want a second rifle strapped to his back. And he probably won't need it either - if a soldier has a high-tech suit like the one you're planning, he has a high-tech rifle to go with it. A second one would be nothing but superfluous.

Also, I assume you're talking about knives there, which are almost always tools and not weapons.

Also also, "Halo depicts it like this" is precisely the reason why your plans are unrealistic. This applies to the weapon thing, the HUD, the health bar, the undersuit, the radar or motion sensor, the general shape and pretty much everything: As long as you model it after the game, you are not going for the real thing. Halo's purpose is to provide fun and relaxation, not reality and frustration. It intentionally makes it easy for the player and half of what you see is not sensible in a real or virtual way, but is simply there because it's needed to play the game. If Master Chief were real, he wouldn't hold the weapon up to his head just for show, but actually look through the scope to aim. No need for a crosshair on the HUD. He'd feel pain. Health bar gone. The weapon would show how much ammo remains and he'd keep count of or just look/feel how much ammo/grenades he has left. Ammo counter gone. All this stuff is part of the game mechanics.
And then there's all the stuff you need that is missing in the game. Did you notice that MC never eats? Or sleeps? Real soldiers do that occasionally. He might find it useful to have friendlies (or possibly enemies) tagged on his HUD. The game for some reason doesn't do that (probably would be too easy then). He might want a compass or a map.

Okay, part of that was me nerding out, I'll admit. On the other hand, successful integration would provide a practical advantage in battle tactics for our troops once the bugs were worked out. The computer - which need not be incredibly advanced or powerful for the purposes mentioned - is just there to keep everything functioning and to keep it all working together. The RADAR is useful when man-worn for much the same reason as it is in a stationary installation - advance warning of assault and ambush. That's why you see it so often in games like Halo, the very novelty of its presence notwithstanding. I selected FM-CW for its similarity to that seen in the games and for the fact people have already networked simple man-portable units (i.e. temp field-installation) using netbooks.

Oh, it would have to be powerful. Whatever sensor you choose (most likely a combination of several, not sure if radar is a good choice), you'll get results that constantly change, because the wearer of the suit moves. The computer has to find movement in a moving picture here, and then ignore everything but the enemy, otherwise the whole world (everything from a bee flying past to grass moving in the wind) would constantly be reported as moving and the system would be pointless.

Of interesting note is the fact that everything I've mentioned in my OP is already around in larger or alternately-configured form and that much of the concept is similar to a DoD project from the '70s and '80s that was scrapped when nearing completion. You learn all sorts of things in discussions with engineers who have spent decades in the military.

So the military, probably after spending millions of Dollars, decided that spending a few millions more was not going to help develop something useful and you want to build something better than what they had at home now? :)

Lets bring money back into this. The electronics alone are going to cost you thousands. You'll want lots of metal parts for the suit (i.e. actual armour), having that manufactured is going to cost tens of thousands as well, not including development. Then you won't just need one of this, you'll need several prototypes. You need to test it, which means you'll need actual weapons, test courses, enemies. People to help you, for pay probably. And you can not at all rely on anything you find on these forums, because this is all about making things look like the real deal, not about making them actually work.
 

Arioch

Well-Known Member
I worked with DARPA in the 90s. They had systems similar to what youre talking about in development in the Land Warrior/Spec Ops programs. Small personal computer systems, motion detectors, heat sensors, targeting assists, etc. Its not impossible at all.

Its expensive to come up with the programming and the hardware. This was just basically a small laptop worn at the waist and configured to work with a special visor attached to your kevlar. It linked to a battlefield system that tracked your movement at HQ and allowed you to communicate with the TOC.

It didnt go much past testing, I havent seen or heard of it since. Basically you wore it, kinda like the Aliens armor, only not as cool looking, lol. It really wasnt horribly big or bulky at all even then. It was maybe a little awkward to use a laptop in a battlefield or w/e. But with the size of components in current technology, a good programmer could realistically do this in a set of armor, even make it voice activated. It could totally fit in a set of armor.. but you need a LOT of money to develop and test that stuff.

Dont ask me how to develop a visor for this in your garage though, lol.
 

Roadkiller

Well-Known Member
I think these kinds of discussions have an audience here, as testified by the two pages of responses so far. However, I agree that they all have the same unrealistic flavour and certainly add nothing to the costuming discussions. They belong in a general chat area with discussions about Halo paintpall armour and the latest dream about putting a functional HUD in a Master Chief helmet.

Look at what the US Army it trying to achieve with it's current technology based "Land Warrior" project (and a bit larger budget than the OP's): "The systems integrated into Land Warrior are the weapon system, helmet, computer, digital and voice communications, positional and navigation system, protective clothing and individual equipment ..." http://www.army-technology.com/projects/land_warrior/

And then look out a couple of decades to Future Force Warrior: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior

Then read this on why projects like this keep getting cancelled despite the fact that to date, the US Army has spent 1/2 a billion dollars on the concepts: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/4215715

If all of this was easy to do, then why isn't Troy Hurtubise the richest man in the world? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Hurtubise


My advice - Take a couple of hundred, or even a couple of thousand, dollars and have fun building a costume.
 

thorn696

Sr Member
Ok, you got me now what are we talking about here in weight, material break down, is modular. Have you done concept pic's. Is it the REAL DEAL? or are you doing a mock up to make it look real. And finely IF REAL do you have a license/permit to own heavy mil/law grade armor? YES, I did say are you authorized to own heavy bullet resistant armor. Just my thoughts.....it would be a cool mock up/ proof of concept.

Added:
Ok read more of forum post so I had to add this to the mix. All this tech is already out there, it is real and being used. That said no one has put it all into one suit/helm. And yes I see that you know this already by saying "man portable". The HUD is on law/mil vehicles right now, Heartbeat monitors/motion censors, multi spectrum thermal scopes, multi band trans-receivers, and others way to long to list here. The problem of making a all-in-one is that the more censors and/or components that you have the more power it burns. It all comes down to weight. If you're carrying 65lb. of ceramic-Kevlar armor, 50lb. of ammo,23lb 82a2, back up weapon systems, 12lb. food, 10lb. water. pack with chem suit(MOP), change of cloths, shelter, sleeping bag, e-tool, ghillie suit, scopes, night vision weighing in between 75lb to 150lb you're not going to want to add another 50lb in battery's. Yes I know I left out allot of stuff on the list but I'm trying to go of memory. We tend to try getting rid of extra weigh as it is now, and if you're trying to cover 25-30 miles a day it just not going to make it. So leave the military out till you get a new power source. As for law enforcement. yes this type system would be nice because it would only be carried for a short time. BUT you're talking heavy amounts of adrenalin flowing in an assault to much info would lead to confusion. That is why all these systems are built into a command vehicles and we go with the lighter gear and radios. So all that said if you can get rid of the weight problem and remember the KISS method(Keep It Simple Stupid) you would be helping hundreds of thousands of mil/law personal. My hats off to you if you can pull it off. I hope this give you a little of the info/feedback you need.

oh and yes it is a crime in some places to own any ballistic armor if you're not mil/law check you're local laws. and you'll notice that most catalogs will not ship to these states without a ID number.
 

CoolC

Well-Known Member
I think these kinds of discussions have an audience here, as testified by the two pages of responses so far...

I am surprised as well. I'm sure all of us are thinking the same thing. The "dream" project cannot be done for multiple reason. When I was young and naive I could remember feeling how cool it was to be Iron Man - with an actual jet pack - and fly around. A member posted his intention to build a jet pack last year on 405th. The thread was shut down immediately by mod.

405th is about building armor and having fun. While there is no specific restrictions on "dream" thread, but it is common knowledge here that threads like this are discouraged. Most of the time the thread would start innocently. Then it would escalate into name throwing. At the end of the day, insult would get thrown. We all should stick to, "I'm building this armor and this is what I have so far." Or do a show and tell of your project.

Thread like this will not go anywhere. Discussion like this on our current military might will not go anywhere. The budget, the available technology in our military is beyond our control. As attested by Airoch that the brains our military couldn't come up with a working prototype. For a modeler to come up with an armor that satisfies the needs of the military is of course impossible.

@Claws61821. If you intend to build an armor, I salute you. Plan your build and keep it simple. Plan to wow us? Build your armor with all the details and paint it like you just had a battle damage. We are a bunch of simple folks who enjoy nice build armor. Plan to build your armor with all the bells and whistles you will just fall into oblivion if you cannot get anything done. Just enjoy building armor and "cut the crap". And final few words, please don't ramble. That's one way to lose and audience.
 

Claws61821

New Member
Ah well, I'm not a car guy. Don't even try to explain how a vehicle with only two wheels can be 4x4 :)
Ahh, of course. Now I understand your confusion. Remember the Mongoose from H3&ODST? That's an ATV.
And how would a health bar be useful on the battlefield? A real soldier usually notices that he's got a badly bleeding hole somewhere, there's no need for the HUD to flash red and show a blinking health bar.
He may not notice it right away if he's pumping enough adrenaline at the time - a small bit of scientific fact to back up claims of medieval berserkers who weren't druggies. That said, you do make a point regarding the traditional health bar, although it would likely be replaced in this system by the standard line graphs of the medical equipment. In either case, I suppose streaming the readout to the display might actually turn out useless or counterproductive.

Even if he does notice the injury(ies) immediately, he may be unable to do anything significant about them and may require evac. Best case scenario in that instance is that he gets shot just a few seconds before the medical file is finalized and sent to Base, they send someone to pick him up and someone else to replace him and he field-wraps it while they're en route to slow the bleeding. Worst case scenario is that he's shot just after the file is sent, falls unconscious or is paralyzed and might bleed out before Base even knows of the injury.
No, the "chemical defense purposes" were a literal quote from your post. And you don't get chemical defense by making it airtight (which is reeeally uncomfortable by the way, you realise that, right?)--
LOL
Makes sense that it would be, yeah.
--and hot-glueing a 3M painter's respirator into the helmet.
D'oh!
The whole setup would probably require you to detach yourself from a face-mask and actually seal the helmet to the rest of the suit in the neck area. This also has to be easy to use, reliable and sturdy. It has to be adaptable to any wearer. The filters need to be cheap, last a long time and easily replaceable on the way.
It's a good thing I wasn't planning on 'hot-glueing' the filters into place, then; isn't it? Seriously, anyone who has actually read the packaging or used a filter of any kind for any purpose knows that they need to be replaced regularly, so I was just going to have them latch into place somehow. Depending upon the type, you can actually get new filters pretty cheap at your local hardware store without buying a whole mask, so using them as simple O2 scrubbers as mentioned in an earlier reply would probably work out alright.

If I could manage to get the rest of it airtight 'in [my] garage,' I could probably use a latching seal for the helmet like the astronauts do. Just speaking hypothetically here, because I'm not likely to try anymore unless it's with something like a diver's suit.
The flimsyness is the result of the fact that you need to be able to remove the weapon without help. Once you can do that, the weapon can also slide off on its own if you move the wrong way.
Apparently, most of these strips require you to lever the weapon off at an angle instead of sliding it. That would probably make it a bit less likely for it to slide off your hip or back randomly, although it could still happen if you bent over wrong.
This just isn't practical. Aside from the possibility of losing it: The times where weapons were 100% steel are long gone, chances are that the weapon we're talking about isn't even magnetic. And even if we assume that you can make it work: Whoever is going to wear this suit is going to have enough to carry, he won't want a second rifle strapped to his back.
It wouldn't have to be a secondary weapon. It could just as easily be his primary, such as under stealth or diplomatic circumstances. It also wouldn't necessarily be a rifle on his back, and could just as readily be a sidearm on his hip or a grenade there or on his chest.
Also, I assume you're talking about knives there, which are almost always tools and not weapons.
Nope. I'm talking about honest-to-goodness firearms - rifles and sidearms work for certain. Knives work, too, but I'm not sure about anything else.
If Master Chief were real, he wouldn't hold the weapon up to his head just for show, but actually look through the scope to aim.
He actually might hold the weapon up 'just for show' simply for the psychological response in his mind - I'm holding up the scope, so it's less jarring to suddenly see such distant environs so closely.
....Health bar gone.
Health perhaps. In John's case, he would still retain the shield bar, simply because there's no way for him to just know its field strength at every given moment.
The weapon would show how much ammo remains and he'd keep count of or just look/feel how much ammo/grenades he has left. Ammo counter gone. All this stuff is part of the game mechanics.
Certainly. Not everything from games and sci-fi makes sense to have in a real HMD, nor even in a real armor. Real-time-updating ammunition counters - be they weight gauging or however - are among the things that do not; I will readily admit that. As such, I hadn't even contemplated having those counters present since coming to that opinion.
He might find it useful to have friendlies (or possibly enemies) tagged on his HUD. The game for some reason doesn't do that (probably would be too easy then).
It actually does tag them on the RADAR, for the most part (and in online multiplayer matches). It would actually be far too distracting to do so on the main screen unless it was done in manner similar to ODST's VISR. The tags seen in online multiplayer, especially, would be dangerous, although they might work if replaced by just the call signs.
He might want a compass or a map.
I had actually meant to list a compass among the equipment in the helmet. It slipped my mind at the time because I was having to copy most of the above from memory since, as mentioned before, I lost my notes.
FM-CW can be used for ground-mapping as well as ground penetration, so the map comment becomes moot - unless you meant a general map of the surrounding area and target area.
Oh, it would have to be powerful. Whatever sensor you choose (most likely a combination of several, not sure if radar is a good choice), you'll get results that constantly change, because the wearer of the suit moves. The computer has to find movement in a moving picture here, and then ignore everything but the enemy, otherwise the whole world (everything from a bee flying past to grass moving in the wind) would constantly be reported as moving and the system would be pointless.
Thus we come to one of the possible problems with FM-CW. The frequency modulation allows for the RADAR to track motion, but it will report absolutely everything it picks up unless programmed and configured otherwise. Your comment of 'movement in a moving picture' does possibly negate my belief in a lesser processor, as well. Really, all of the equipment has intricacies, the biggest is just getting them all to work together.

As the old technology saying goes: Step one is to invent. Step two is to miniaturize.
So the military, probably after spending millions of Dollars, decided that spending a few millions more was not going to help develop something useful and you want to build something better than what they had at home now? :)
Well, when you put it that way! XD
Lets bring money back into this.
You mean that ugly concept that you're about the only one to keep mentioning and which I've been trying very hard to ignore in my work for a year or two? :p
The electronics alone are going to cost you thousands.
*nods* No telling how many.
You'll want lots of metal parts for the suit (i.e. actual armour)
Not for the prototype/costume, since that's only around for the purposes of novelty and the development of the gear within. I plan to leave the actual armoring to other people - although I might try commissioning one of the companies manufacturing DOT helmets to cast hardsuit parts in the very distant future.
And you can not at all rely on anything you find on these forums, because this is all about making things look like the real deal, not about making them actually work.
Mostly true, although there are (or, at least, have been) others here with intent of practicality.

Thanks again, Ventrue. Informative and argumentative all in one!
 

Claws61821

New Member
@Arioch

Heh...I remember seeing that system. Someone brought it by either my elementary school or my summer day camp for demonstrating to the kids in hopes of inspiring us to go military. It was pretty cool, actually.
 

Claws61821

New Member
@RoadKiller

Those first two and the last links have actually been sources for some of my ideas. The third one is highly informative in its own right.

The tone of your post in general, however, is highly negative and discouraging, and makes me exasperatedly wonder why everyone seems to think that laymen like ourselves have no business whatsoever trying to help develop anything for the military or anyone else - the very same kind of thinking that does nothing but impede progress.
 
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