Scout Foam build help with gaps/filling. Kids size. Houston TX

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Remy130

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Hi Guys
noob here.

my 2 little boys want HALO costumes and foam seemed the easiest route for a beginner. 1 wanted a scout, and I dont care what the other one wants, hes getting an easier CE helmet after this.
I set up my tables and have most of supplies you guys have laid out except Bondo.

I scaled down a Scout helmet to fit my 7yr old, however while the width was perfect, in scale the helmet was way too short, so I added 2" of foam around to compensate. This makes it taller than the actual helmet and look odd, but to a 7yr old it shouldnt matter. If I did it to exact scale the front of the helmet would be sticking out way too far as a 7yr olds head is much larger than their body in relation.

I have a few issues and after reading Carpathia's thread on envirotex resin, I am at a crossing point with some questions and think Bondo might be my answer.

1. How do I fill in all the gaps/lines everywhere? Most say Bondo will crack over foam. Spackle?

2. I bought a lot of PVA/Elmers, would this go Under the Bondo to help it adhere? I have no aversions to bondoing the whole thing.

3. Was I supposed to cut the lines into the foam that are typically there for paper folding? It seems I could have gotten away with just heating and bending the foam without some of them. Ive been using steel helmet to bend the heated foam over so far.

4. I have not finished the top part of the helmet, as it appears for some reason if following the pattern it will be NARROWER than the bottom portion, I will now have to fill in the back gaps with some triangles and keep it wider in the back to fit over the bottom half, you can see as my hand squeezes the fit together its smaller than the base its supposed to attach to, not sure what I did wrong, perhaps didnt curve the top shell halves enough with heat gun.

5. Considering the complexity of chest armor I am considering a simpler file or even the basic HALO CE foam file, while it wont match the Palmer scout helmet its a start. Unless you know of a simpler ODST/Scout non CE variant foam based PDO that has fewer pieces.

Thanks

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1. Depending on how big the gaps are, qwik seal will work on small gaps, you could make extra pieces of foam to stick in there and if there is any unevenness sanding it down with a dremel would be my best guess.

2. I have never used bondo on foam so I have no idea if the glue would work, maybe seal it with wood glue or plastidip? but even then I think that the foams flexibility would crack the bondo anyway... I dont know though, you could experiment on some scrap pieces and see how it works out.

3. When I have my templates cut, I try and tape as many pieces as I can together to prevent seams. The less little pieces you have the better it will look depending on the look you want. Also when I need curved pieces I just use my knee or something I can bend it over. not sure if that gets at what you mean.

4. What if you heat form the helmet again after you've glued it to try and get it to be more uniform? It could very well be not curing the foam enough.

5. I did full scout armor in foam except for the helmet (fiberglass bondo resin method) and let me tell you that chest was a hassle! Honestly, if it's for a small child who will grow out of it, I would go with something simpler. It gives you more practice with working with the foam and also its not a bunch of time on something that will be, I dont want to say useless, but useless later down the road.

I'm a big fan of YouTube tutorials, check out Evil Ted Smith and Punished Props! I watched their videos on how to get a basic idea of how to work with foam. I think I have literally said that on every post I have made thus far but really, check them out. Hopefully, my answers were understandable!
 
yeah like Ruby said about tapping pieces together is a good idea. one thing i found out is cutting on angles can be a real big help. for the helmet are you using a foam armor template? if not you can modify a regular file by just making connecting smaller pieces to make big pieces, just make sure to turn off the tabs in designer. for gluing pieces try to spread out the hot glue to make a even layer on the pieces you want to glue together, or you can try out barge cement that they use for foam armor making on punish props. for the bondo, it wont really work since it needs to grab hold of something and since foam is flexible it will peel off unless you cover the whole piece in bondo. i actually made my halo helmet out of foam, it took me 2 tries before getting it "just" right. but since it is being made out of foam there will be some things that you will have to deal with since foam is foam. one thing, be really careful if you are using a heat gun when pieces are glues together, cause if you heat a piece too long it the glue will melt and come apart where you glued. finally to make sure you are sizing it right it is a good idea to make a foam ruler from a long piece of the foam your using then mark off the inches on the strip, the reason for this is the thickness of the foam has to be taken into account for the sizing...hopefully i explained it well enough
 
Thanks Sass n Ruby

I indeed did not take into account the foam thickness, but I still need more clarification on how to mitigate that by what you're saying, will search a youtube on it.

Ive been watching lots of Punished Props videos on foam building but the part that I cant get down is what degree to bevel a cut. I look in PEP, I can GUESS what angle to cut a part out but often I am wrong, and once its cut its hard to rebevel it again without pulling the foam and creating a jagged mess. I will also get a belt sander like he has, seems invaluable.

I feel better you took 2 tries :) I might need more.

I am trying coating in PVA, calking gaps like Ruby noted and then dremel sanding, then rePVAing it.

And yes,once its glued together, you CANT reheat and bend it, the glue melts right off.
 
Thanks Sass n Ruby

I indeed did not take into account the foam thickness, but I still need more clarification on how to mitigate that by what you're saying, will search a youtube on it.

Ive been watching lots of Punished Props videos on foam building but the part that I cant get down is what degree to bevel a cut. I look in PEP, I can GUESS what angle to cut a part out but often I am wrong, and once its cut its hard to rebevel it again without pulling the foam and creating a jagged mess. I will also get a belt sander like he has, seems invaluable.

I feel better you took 2 tries :) I might need more.

I am trying coating in PVA, calking gaps like Ruby noted and then dremel sanding, then rePVAing it.

And yes,once its glued together, you CANT reheat and bend it, the glue melts right off.

 
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Hey Remy.

I have done a Mark VI in foam and hope I can add a few tips.

When scaling, make sure to add an inch or two in order to take account of the thickness of the foam. Trust the design and don't try to re-scale part way through. There may be times that you have to make a piece a little bigger or smaller to fit but this is usually due to cutting or glueing issues.

I found that I never really needed to make a bevelled cut more than 45 degrees. The key is to have a really sharp knife. I used a hot knife and had a sharpening stone on the table to sharpen my blade after every few cuts.

For pieces that have folds in the pepakura, I found that making an angled cut on the bottom side of the foam is the best way to go. You cut out a "V" and put some glue in the valley which holds the folded shape together.

I tried pretty much every method to seal my foam. I didn't use Envirotex due to the cost but did try Smooth Cast and it was a total bust. Envirotex may work better, just make sure you test it first. The method that finally worked for me was Evakura's method of using spray polyurethane and then a final coat of Plasti Dip.

Oh, and I too had to remake my helmet twice. Chest piece too.


"I don't know what's weirder, that you're fighting a stuffed animal, or that you seem to be losing" - Suzie
 
While it's not bad for a first attempt, I don't want to be the bearer of the bad news... If it was me doing the helmet, I would start over because it looks really very weird, nothing like Scout helmet should look like.
The bottom part IS supposed to be wider. Both bottom and top parts should be same length not how you did it - it looks like you you mashed up very different scales together, so while the bottom looks OK, the top looks way bigger than it's supposed to.
 
Lets see if I can help a bit. I recently build a Halo 4 ODST helmet out of 1/2 inch foam. I dont have any pictures of it handy on my computer to post I will try to amend that here shortly to give you some idea what you can accomplish. A hot knife has been suggested and believe me it helps a lot. Cuts down the number of blades you go through. You still need to clean/resharpen the blade frequently. In my case I have a decently stocked work shop beneath my feet so I actually use a small Band saw to cut most of my foam pieces that way I can set the deck to due my angel cuts for me. A small scroll saw with an adjustable table can do it as well. If that is a toy you have access to. I wouldnt suggest running out and buying one unless you plan to dive off the deep end. In my ODST 4 helmet most of my angels are set at 30 degree or less. so you would have a 15 degree cut on each side. I have a few that are down around 10. 1/2 inch foam is tough to work with because it wants to return to its natural profile of laying flat. the 10mm Roll foam can be easier to work with but the helmet doesnt feel as sturdy to me..

Try to lay out your foam pieces in the largest sections you can accomplish work with. Small fiddly pieces increase your joint counts and dont help. Sometimes it is a case of looking at a pepakura model and going okay that works fine for if I am doing pepakura and building in paper and then tinker with the pieces till they work for you in foam. That is an experience thing and in my case hard one with many attempts over 2 years and no 2 people do it the same.

Grabbed a couple pictures of what A foam helmet can begin to look like.
odst back.jpgodst front.jpgodst side.jpg

I do agree with Commander Palmer. No attempt is bad but in this case I would suggest calling the first one a learning experience set it asside so you can look at it and compare and go for attempt #2.

If you are going to get a sander just pick up a little mouse sander. They are not super expensive . You will want to run the highest grit sand paper you can get. 200 to 400 if you can find it. If you are working with hot glue the sander will not be able to work on the joints at all. It will simply melt the hot glue and make a mess. I have been harping enough about that this week so I wont here check out the thread on glues here in the recruit section if you want to listen to me harp.

Dont be afraid to try and try again. And dont be afraid to ask. My experience is hard won. It includes me doing things the wrong way even after I am told not to do it. Just simply because I want to know.. All of us here are here to help.
 
you have a nice build going on, for gaps lots of ways to approach here are a few I have used on foam 1 use tacky glue 2 dap paintable caulking just make sure to wet your finger and smooth it and remember it shrinks a little when it dries 3 styro spray 4 bondo 5 resin 6 rondo for 4,5 &6 make sure foam is sealed with acrylic or mod podge or like substance as 4,5,&6 will eat the foam the next few I only use on other than foam materials 7 plaster patch 8 wood filler 9 epoxy putty
 
Another thing with the angle of cuts, I had no idea when I did my armor but over time you can kind of get an idea from reference pictures. I try and go conservative to begin with and if I need to cut more of an angle I have that extra foam to do it with. If I cut too much, I'll take a scrap piece and stick it in the seam and move it around until I get the angle that I want and hot glue it in place.

I did a lot of practice cuts on scrap pieces of foam before i went for the real cut for my armor. Scrap pieces of foam are your friend!
 
Another thing with the angle of cuts, I had no idea when I did my armor but over time you can kind of get an idea from reference pictures. I try and go conservative to begin with and if I need to cut more of an angle I have that extra foam to do it with. If I cut too much, I'll take a scrap piece and stick it in the seam and move it around until I get the angle that I want and hot glue it in place.

I did a lot of practice cuts on scrap pieces of foam before i went for the real cut for my armor. Scrap pieces of foam are your friend!

yeah, i even have some side scraps as visual reference to see if i need to cut in or out depending on the angle of the piece
 
I've used bondo on foam. The only real issue I had to worry about was not adding too much bondo at a time. The hardening process causes it to heat up, and you don't want the heat to tweak or melt the foam. These days I actually use spackle for filling in cracks, and fiberglass to give it a bit of strength where needed. It's easier to work with (no adding catalyst or heat while drying) and it's just as easy to sand down. There's even types of spackle you can get at home depot that when dry, are actually flexible like rubber. After, I spray the parts in Plasti-Dip (rubber coating in a spray can). This helps keep the spackle in place. If it cracks under the Plasti-Dip, I've never noticed it up to this point.

James
 
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