405th Infantry Division History


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Deadguy

Well-Known Member
The 405th appeared in Halo 2, here's the Halopedia entry for it's background:

The 405th is based out of Diego Garcia. They arrived on scene during the Covenant attack of Mombasa, Kenya on Earth. They went on to fight on the city streets of New Mombasa valiantly[1].

The 405th assisted the Master Chief in the destruction of a Scarab that was moving through the city. Members of this unit then traveled to Installation 05 along with the Chief aboard the UNSC In Amber Clad.

The 405th were Marines.

In terms of Service, the ODST are special forces Marines, but the Spartans aren't actually Marines themselves.

I've seen discussions of possibly doing flight crew costumes (from Pillar of Autumn, as an example), which would make them Navy personnel.

In the United states, the Marine corps is a part of the Navy, not the other way around.

So... this presents a bit of a problem...

We COULD suggest that parts of the 405th were separated from the rest in-order to assist with the top-secret secondary Spartan-2 project with a new codename ("Orion" was the codename for the secret Spartan-1 project). It would make sense in military terms, if the folks pulled from the 405th were given a separate designation, but we COULD ignore that, claiming that the marine members of our group are unaware that they were separated, and operated under the belief that the rest of the 405th was destroyed in combat when they were deployed to Harvest to protect the colonies from Covenant.

Perhaps when Reach had been glassed, and the first ring discovered, the Spartans and 405th Marines were loaded onto a ship to secretly come to the aid of John-117 on the ring, but they were arriving just as the ring was destroyed and were forced to immediately jump into slipspace, but not before being slammed by debris. The damage caused them to experience slipspace problems that projected them into the past (current date -20 years). The ship they were on (make up name here) is all they had and it was severely damaged, they have spent the last 20 years limping the ship home to Earth, in-and-out of slipspace, while attempting to follow the Cole protocol, to warn Earth of the incoming Covenant forces and assist in Earth's defense.

While nearing Earth, with no communications availible to us, and noticing the obvious lack of MAC orbital gun platforms around the planet, it was beleived that the Earth must have already fallen to Covenant forces. Knowing our ship was failling, as a security measure to keep the technology out of covenant hands, it was aimed into the Sun, and specially modified pelican dropships brought the 405th to Earth to face the covenant threat on the ground. Instead, we found the Earth as it is now.

We, ourselves, were not part of the top command structure on the planetary base where our Spartans were trained, we were merely sent off into battle and went MIA in the Halo Universe when we slipstreamed into a different time. This means that we don't know who funded or directed our secret operation, or anything our superiors would have known about. All we know is the project name, and the name assigned to the planet we were on (which might not even be it's true name).

Our Naval crew is the same crew that operated our ship, but the majority of personnel were either Spartans or Marines, and upon discovering that the UNSC hadn't been formed yet, we opted to incorporate the Spartans into the Marines command structure, and stick with the "405th Infantry Division", in memory of the Marines that were beleived to have fallen. The newly unified command structure is Naval based although the Marine ranks are also present in the enlisted ranks.



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This version answers many questions, and presents us with oppourtunities. If we wish to be officially recognized as "canon" by Bungie, we have to fit into the existing bible and not "rock the boat" by claiming that a whole bunch of spartans exist, and these spartans call themselves part of a Marine Infantry unit that was present in Halo 2 alongside the chief and has documented character names within the game.

The other part that helps with official recognition is that the ship on which we travelled is not one with a known history to it. In fact, everything this story sets out to do is to plant ourselves into the Halo Bible, yet use a bare minimum of copyright infringements allowable to fans wearing fan-created suits.

This isn't a story we have to explain all the time, but it helps to have a single unified event which enables us all to leave the official bungie timeline and create character stories for our characters without infringing on anything that's already been established, PLUS leaves the path wide open for Bungie/M$ to continue to expand the universe without ruining our own stories in the process.

Another option would be to suggest that we named ourselves the 405th, because it has something to do with the planet's name that we were trained on? Or perhaps it was the project's name because the spartans were plucked from the 405th?


In any event, I'm not the only one with ideas here.. let's get to brainstorming.
 

Sigma LS

Sr Member
I like it. I also think that we should include 2 things.

1. Our top commanding officers were killed in the jump that brought us here, thus helping to prompt the reorganization of the unit

2. That we scavenged data "cores" (hard stored info) from the ship before we scuttled it. These contained a number of top secret project plans that we were safeguarding as part of the original assignment. This explains why we are able to have armor permutations and H3/post H3 gear. The armors currently available in the universe are those that we have been able to de-encode from the salvaged data. Encoded or encrypted data we have not been able to get to yet is the reason that can be used to expand the armor/costume base for future games. The commanding officers deaths wouldn't have helped with the code-cracking either.


Just my thoughts.
 

Adam

Forum Founder
Member DIN
S800
so perhaps we have the 405th, the marines/armorless part of a larger halo costuming group.

UNSC Soldiers -----------SPARTAN GROUP
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405th



but that's a last resort type thing.
 
Hmmm from what I've read about it on the Wiki there was a:
(I'm soooo claiming this for myself since it's assumed but not confirmed that he died) It states that he was:

A Spartan-II supersoldier, Joshua-029 was one of the leaders of the Spartan group, having been put in charge of Spartan teams on multiple occasions. He had a close working relationship with John-117 and Fredric-104.

Joshua
Biographical information

Spartan Tag
SPARTAN-029

Date of birth
Between 2510 and 2512

Date of death
2552?

Physical description

Species
Human

Reach and Death

Joshua was then on the UNSC Pillar of Autumn briefly until Covenant forces appeared above Reach. During The Battle of Reach, Joshua was assigned to Fred's team and designated as Red-Two. As he and Fred descended to the surface of Reach, their Pelican, Bravo 001, was shot down. Joshua attempted to activate the auto pilot of the Pelican, but all of its computer systems had been destroyed[1]. Joshua was, however, able to slow the vessel down enough so that the Spartans could make a "hard landing"; or jump out of the Pelican and land directly on the ground[2].

Once landed, Joshua found a Sniper Rifle and was the first Spartan to arrive at ODG Facility A-331 and spot Charlie Company. He then radioed Fred and the Spartans were able to regroup at the facility. Fred then ordered Joshua to recon the area. Joshua was the Spartan who spotted a Covenant landing zone and patched the image through to Fred using his COM[3]. Joshua, Fred, and Kelly-087 then piloted Banshees toward the Gravity Lift of the Covenant cruiser and threw a Fury Tac Nuke into it. However, as the Banshees neared the lift, Covenant fired their Plasma Cannons at the Banshees, hitting Joshua's Banshee. He was last seen trailing smoke and losing altitude just before the Fury Tac Nuke destroyed the area[4].

If he crashed, it is unlikely that he survived the blast. Fred tried to radio to Joshua, but received no response[5]. He is currently listed as MIA and is assumed to be dead.


Gender
Male

Affiliation and military information

Affiliation
United Nations Space Command

Rank
Petty Officer Second Class

Battles
The Battle of Sigma Octanus IV, The Battle of Reach and numerous others

Class
Class I: 2525
 

Sean Bradley

Sr Member
Jax, I think we're trying to develop our on backstory, not pillage Halopedia's pre-existing story.

Theres something to be said for creating our own fictional backround seperate from whats been published, to ease proprietary concerns
 

Deadguy

Well-Known Member
Jaxjags2100 said:
Hmmm from what I've read about it on the Wiki there was a:
(I'm claiming this for myself) It states that he was:

A Spartan-II supersoldier, Joshua-029 was one of the leaders of the Spartan group, having been put in charge of Spartan teams on multiple occasions. He had a close working relationship with John-117 and Fredric-104.

I hate to be a jerk and a spoilsport, but two suggestions as to why that's not a good idea.

#1- there are very few truly MIA spartans in the novels. It would hardly be fair to suggest that you could do that, considering that 99.9% of the members of this group won't be able to, unless we allow multiple Joshua-029's to run around, and I don't think that's what we're trying to do here.

#2- You are claiming a "face" character, meaning it's a specific character in Bungie's Halo Bible and you therefore have no idea if Bungie has other plans for that character which might make him dead, or perhaps even captured, etc. Next thing you know, the character is in the next spin-off game, and you're flagrantly violating more copyrights that you can shake a stick at. It's no different than walking up and claiming that you're John-117, and that after the events of Halo 3, Cortana woke you up because she noticed another ship floating nearby.. you boarded the ship and went home to Earth. We can't all be John-117. It's things like this that can kill this club dead in it's tracks.

The idea is to get out of the storyline quickly as a character that was never officially named, therefore breaking the absolute minimum in terms of copyright. The 501st has it easy because there's a virtually unlimited amount of stormtroopers and a virtually unlimited amount of other people on the Deathstar, so anyone claiming to be from there could go ahead and do it. In formal 501st gatherings, there's agreements made when someone wants to be Darth Vader or other "face" characters, to ensure that only one person shows up in that costume.

Our situation is more delicate because under the Halo bible, there's a significantly limited amount of Spartans, and each one is specifically named in the Halo bible, with most of them being officially considered dead.

So as a result, let's keep this thread on the topic of figuring out a joint history, rather than individual histories, which can be determined once we have things moving and accepting memberships.
 
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Walter Spase

Well-Known Member
Well... as the Spartans were not directly in the 405th infantry unit, it can be consider plausible to include them in the 405th Infantry Costuming group.

If you follow the cannon as set forth with the 501st Legion... they are a legion of storm troopers, but there are many non military characters, pilots, bounty hunters etc. in that group. I don't believe it is necessary to invent characters, stories, times, places, military restructuring as to not infringe on the copyrighted material. To many spartans?... well There was 1 Vader, but the legion has many... I am playing devils advocate here so that we don't eat up to much and get terrible deep into it.

When things start simple they have a more solid foundation. From that foundation a back story (history) can be created.

However, a back story would be nice to add substance and depth to the group at some point. And I like the ideas you have presented.

I guess what I am saying ultimately, we are a costuming group, I didn't realize that we had swung out into the theater of reenactment that would require such and in deepth explanation as to why we have 14 spartans, two marines, 3 Cortanas, and a few ODSTs...
 
I guess I should have been a little more humorous in my original post. I wasn't saying I was actually going to "claim" to be that Spartan. Sorry for the misunderstanding and thanks for playing D.A. Spase. I'll just wear my armor and show up heh and leave the rest to you guys :lol:

But playing D.A. as well with Space saying that:

"We COULD suggest that parts of the 405th were separated from the rest in-order to assist with the top-secret secondary Spartan-2 project with a new codename ("Orion" was the codename for the secret Spartan-1 project). It would make sense in military terms, if the folks pulled from the 405th were given a separate designation, but we COULD ignore that, claiming that the marine members of our group are unaware that they were separated, and operated under the belief that the rest of the 405th was destroyed in combat when they were deployed to Harvest to protect the colonies from Covenant."

The key word being COULD, which is about as big of a mistake because we have no idea if Bungie has any other plans for the 405th as well, just as you stated I have no idea what plans they have if any for Spartan-029

Dead,

I do understand what you're saying and ultimately it's Adam's thing and he has to make decisions based on the future of the 405th. I'm fine with whatever decision is made and honestly, in the end, I just wanna be a part of it.
 

DogWizard

Well-Known Member
I may be trying to oversimplify things but is there really a need to integrate a "time-travel" deus ex machina to justify our presence on present day earth? I'm not in the 501st but from what little information I have pieced together, they don't have any type of time-travel, galaxy-hopping explanation as to how a whole legion of troopers ended up on earth (if I'm wrong just let me know). It just seems to be an overly elaborate and complicated backstory and it places us all in the role of being from "the future" which may be a bit odd to say the least...

At least in the beginning, my guess is that there will be an overwhelming Spartan-to-everybody-else ratio so why not just start with something simple to try and explain where this many hitherto unknown Spartans came from, let alone why they are on Earth?

This actually raises another question - how "in-character" will everyone be expected to be? I'm not talking about a bunch of drunk Spartans doing the Macarena during a parade but coming from an SCA background, it's not always easy (especially for newcomers) to stay in character and develop a full-time persona.

My guess is that this will take a while to flesh out...
 

kerotan 36

Well-Known Member
Well I would think Members would make both like some of the 501st members own Stormtrooper armor sets along with other sets, so it might be like that.
 

Deadguy

Well-Known Member
First of all, I'd suggest that roleplaying is entirely up to the individual. Some folks love it, some don't.

The concept of having a backstory is merely a way of establishing a basic root from which the individual backstories could arise for those that like the role-playing concept. I propose that it's better to take care of that early-on, rather than have to change it later.

Honestly, I suspect that if we were given Bungie official approval, they might even approve our backstory (perhaps with modifications), because simply put, Bungie is a strong and ardent supporter of their fans. They're definately not going to do that on an individual person-by-person basis, but I doubt it would be much effort to give us ROOM for a single Halo Bible event that drops us all out of the Bungie universe and minimizes copyright issues, perhaps similar to how it was done for Linda, the spartan "trapped" in the Team Ninja game.

That's if you think it's cool to be a part of the Halo Bible in even an abstract way. If not, we'll skip it now, but some of us might forever wish we could go back and fix it. It seems far better to approach this topic early on before folks make other decisions based on it, like costume creation with specific ship insignias and stuff and other character background related stuff.

It may seem too in-depth and detailed to some of you, but the idea is to get a basic story that can be related to others if asked, and if you wanted to roleplay in costume at all, to promote the club. If everyone does their own thing, we're better off merely having a contact list to call people for gigs, rather than the headache of organizing a club with memberships and getting bungie/Ms permission for everything, because what's the point of that? I could call a local children's hospital and wander around in costume merely being a guy in costume, and get the same affect. Wouldn't it be cooler for the kids if we were actually in character though?

As for the usage of the "405th".. I never named the club, and yes, it walks directly into copyright territory. My version gives us a way back out of the storyline without affecting known events. I was trying to establish a history that explained the name so that when you're at a convention and folks ask "but why are you guys called the 405th? what does the name mean?" you can look 'em in the eye and say something intelligent that the rest of us have already agreed upon, rather than just shrug and say.. "I dunno.. it's like an army thing or something.. it sounded cool," or make something up that Bungie/MS hasn't authorized us to use, that screws with their stuff, in a CNN field interview.

It's not something you have to know specific details on, right to the depth of your core or something, lol.. I just suggested an overview in case we're challenged by questions. The idea being that you could say we're part of the 405th that got separated through a slipspace accident that threw us back in time and here we are. The rest of it is depth to add fictional credibility to other aspects of the club if questioned further (and/or to get put onto the halopedia if Bungie says we're "real" to the Halo universe).

(ie- Why hasn't the military hasn't taken your ship and used the technology on it to advance our own technology?, Why are you a Spartan Marine? Why haven't you just gotten back on your ship and tried to get home? etc.. most interviews last for more than 2 questions, though the depth of them varies by the intelligence of who's asking, and the perceived intelligence of the person being interviewed.)

The alternate may appeal to folks too though. Where you are merely yourself, standing around in a costume you bought or made, or helped make, surrounded by other bought or homemade costumes, with no pretence of a fictional persona at all. I just figured that some folks would like a choice and if there's no agreed upon backstory, you're robbed of that choice by the risks of contradicting the rest of the club, and/or the bungie storyline.

So.. as a result, if you don't need/want a backstory, let us come up with one for those that do. Your participation is entirely voluntary.

As for the argument that the 501st isn't just stromtroopers, despite being named after a stormtrooper contingent is ok, I agree with you. My only thought is that the 501st is primarily stormtroopers and therefore accurately named after a stormtrooper legion. We're currently looking at a primarily Spartan group named after Marines instead of spartans. That's ok too, but I thought it'd be kinda' cool (and more acceptable) to explain why it's that way, through a backstory.

Hey, it's possible I'm way off with all this, in which case, I'd like to be set straight, but unless there's direct harm to come from pursuing this.. it's still "next" in my book. The organizational stuff is in the works and there's not much else to work on without a charter being hammered out, but if you disagree, and have something else you think I should focus on.. lemme know because I want to get stuff done, not press against your resistance just for the sake of doing so.

ps- The timewarp problems with slipspace were noted in the novels... I just figured it made it plausible as a story, to explain why we're HERE, and not THERE fighting the covenant. Plus I could see a lot of fun being had with the idea of promoting the idea that the "aliens are coming, be prepared!" thing. Hey.. if the groups not with me on this, then let's go a different direction. By all means, get involved and bring your ideas to the table.
 

Walter Spase

Well-Known Member
I just saw nailing a back story down would in a way put limitations on the expansion of the group. If there were only so many Spartans on your fictional ship, then why are there more than were originally stated (membership is bound to increase). I also see the point of being in character, as if I were dressed in armor, I would assume the role of a Spartan as I understand that to be.

I guess role playing in the Legion is much easier, as almost all of the characters are based upon roles that were penned out by writers, and back stories existed for the characters when the costuming group was started. I suppose general guide lines of "remaining in character" would be a good consideration to keep with the community standards.

But I do agree some sort of basic guide line for character roles should be assumed, rather loosely, and if you so wished, you could role play the character for which you are costumed as. I just think whether the group is moving forward or not, its still a bit early to set a story in stone, but I like some of the ideas you have put forth. Some real imagination shown.
 

Vrogy

Well-Known Member
Deadguy said:
so that when you're at a convention and folks ask "but why are you guys called the 405th? what does the name mean?" you can look 'em in the eye and say something intelligent that the rest of us have already agreed upon, rather than just shrug and say.. "I dunno.. it's like an army thing or something.. it sounded cool," or make something up that Bungie/MS hasn't authorized us to use, that screws with their stuff, in a CNN field interview.

I find myself quoting you for massive truth a lot..

Spase said:
If there were only so many Spartans on your fictional ship, then why are there more than were originally stated (membership is bound to increase).

Well, the ship hasn't exactly been spec'd out or anything- nor the modified pelicans, etc- it's just a story. IMHO it works fine for what it's been intended for.
 
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DogWizard

Well-Known Member
My apologies if earlier comments seemed dismissive - I definately do agree that there needs to be an official backstory in place. I was just trying to suggest that we simplify that explanation so that we don't have to deal with the time travel paradox issue and the same type of questions you outlined. The more detailed and granular we make this the easier it will be to create inconsistencies - imagine playing a game of "telephone" based on a complicated fictional storyline.

My biggest objection to this approach is the "we have to explain how we got here" angle. The more "real" we make it, paradoxically the less "real" it becomes - how do you legitimately explain a bunch of Spartans from the future wandering down a main street in Atlanta? Going back to the 501st comparison - are they ever questioned on the mechanics of how they arrived on Earth? I have no idea but if I had to guess, my answer would be no. Just being there in numbers, being accurate, and being "in-character" is justification enough...

This all may just be a personal issue on my end, I just remember too many science fiction/fantasy series that were phenominal stories until the author fell victim to the "and here is how that all relates back to the Earth" hook. Immediately the sense of fantasy and adventure is stripped away and the story becomes quagmired in mundane, everyday details. I will try to put something together later this weekend - I can't say that it will be any better or worse than anyone else's idea but the more options we have the better our final choices may be...

Thanks Deadguy - it's obvious that you have put a lot of time and thought into this. I'm sure that it will all come together...
 

Deadguy

Well-Known Member
DogWizard said:
My biggest objection to this approach is the "we have to explain how we got here" angle. The more "real" we make it, paradoxically the less "real" it becomes - how do you legitimately explain a bunch of Spartans from the future wandering down a main street in Atlanta? Going back to the 501st comparison - are they ever questioned on the mechanics of how they arrived on Earth? I have no idea but if I had to guess, my answer would be no. Just being there in numbers, being accurate, and being "in-character" is justification enough...

This all may just be a personal issue on my end, I just remember too many science fiction/fantasy series that were phenominal stories until the author fell victim to the "and here is how that all relates back to the Earth" hook. Immediatelly the sense of fantasy and adventure is stripped away and the stoy becomes quagmired in mundane, everyday details. I will try to put something together later this weekend - I can't say that it will be any better or worse than anyone else's idea but the more options we have the better our final choices may be...

There are some good points here. Perhaps it'd be a good idea to simply indicate that we left the official Halo universe storylines at a certain point and indicate a reason for why there's so many spartans, and then just sorta say "and here we are!" Filling-out past that point could be up to the member, but I like the idea about damaged/incomplete data being the reason we aren't 100% up to the "latest/greatest" in armor variants (leaving the way open for new mods and stuff for the next Halo, if/when it comes).

I think that approach holds a lot of merit, and might help some of the other folks that are having a hard time with the "larger" more-involved story.
Perhaps any "unusual" questions beyond the point of "losing our command staff" could be answered with "Well shucks maam.. I'm just a marine ya' know.. I'm not like a 5-star general or something."
 
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SPARTAN II

Sr Member
Lots of really good points and ideas made here. I like where this is going.

Personally speaking, I definately like the idea of inventing a "back story" of how this community came to be. I can't speak for others, but for myself I'd be all for the whole role-playing bit. Guess I'll have to work a bit on some of that SPARTAN sign language, LOL.

I'm glad we have someone in our membership who's had some experience in this sort of community organization work. This will go a long to help "flesh out" our group, and further promote it.

I can't really think of anything to add to it at the moment, so I'll have to give it some thought and come back to this...
 
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