405th versus 501st

[Vrogy]

That was actually my point. The 501st doesn't accept anything less than the best.

A few cents here:
The 405th needs a lot to even think about being at the level of the 501st.

-Accurate Costumes.
No pepakura. Specific colors. Scaling checks. Inspections. Standards should be clear and exact. 'Canon' needs to be a word that can be found here. Yes, that's nerdy.. it also makes people(like bungie..) take you seriously.

-Make it Easy.
Have clearly demarcated sets of tutorials for making suits. Everything should be covered, and the process for everything in a standard set of armor should be laid out and clearly marked.
I'd almost argue to use something like instructables.com to do this, so we can get both leverage another community and make tutorials more discernable from the churning mass of threads that the 405th is today.

-Be Seen, Get Official.
Go to cons, march around in groups, etc. Let people know we exist. The more visible we are, the better our chances of getting officially recognized as the 501st was. On the web, we should have galleries of members in armor, lots of nice thumbnails all in rows.

-Recruit.
I went to dragon*con a year ago to fight robots and got handed three 501st cards along the way. Seriously, we should do some outreach once we reach a decent amount of official members. Head to your favorite social network and start a group. Schedule and hold local meetups. Make our presence known in the Halo gaming communities. Have fun and gather eyeballs with youtube videos. 50 Spartans in a fast food place, 'securing a perimeter', running through public places, etc.

Of course, maybe all anyone wants to do is build a pep costume for halloween or while it's popular. Time will tell, but I think this could be a lasting thing.

 

[Nomadic Spoon]

50 Spartans in a fast food place, 'securing a perimeter', running through public places

We have to do this, hands down. Can you imagine the poor McDonalds folks when 50-some SPARTANs in various suits storm their place and secure it?

o..O

 

[Ruze789]

-Accurate Costumes.
No pepakura. Specific colors. Scaling checks. Inspections. Standards should be clear and exact. 'Canon' needs to be a word that can be found here. Yes, that's nerdy.. it also makes people(like bungie..) take you seriously.

Pepakura can be made to look up to molded quality, with some of the recent advances in the pep detailing (Spase, MLC, darthcalibur, etc). So the entire suits could be made to look like the helmets these guys are doing.

As far as accuracy... I've started reading some of the various prop making groups forums, and those guys are fanatically insane. Granted, most of the detail on SW suits were thrown together using found items, but I've never seen the amount of dedication they have towards making the most accurate stuff imaginable. I would love to see some of that enthusiasm for detail make its way here.

 

[Vrogy]

Pepakura can be made to look up to molded quality, with some of the recent advances in the pep detailing (Spase, MLC, darthcalibur, etc). So the entire suits could be made to look like the helmets these guys are doing.

I think even with lax standards, only 10%, maybe less, of the pep stuff I've seen here would make it. As in all things, Sturgeon's Revelation applies.
In my honest opinion, it kind of boils down to a 'Don't waste your time' proposition for the prospective builder when faced with the choice of molded vs. pep.

 

[Ruze789]

I think even with lax standards, only 10%, maybe less, of the pep stuff I've seen here would make it.

I absolutely agree with you, but the vast majority of pep suits seem to have been quickie builds for either H3 launch or halloween. Once the 405th does go official, with the strict rules put into place, there won't be such a rush for people to get their stuff done. If the difference between getting in and not getting in to the real and official 405th means people need to spend countless more hours building a suit to spec, it will weed out those who belong and those who don't.

I know I, for one, don't have the 2000- 3000 bucks needed to make my own or buy a molded suit. But I am completely willing to spend all the time necessary to make a pep suit look molded. And so should anyone else who's serious about the 405th.

 

[Sinjinsmiley]

You guys keep forgetting the sargeant, major, and colonel ranks.

Back to topic though. Being a member of both the 501st and the 405th, I'd have to say that, no offense, but the 501st just blows the 405th out of the water. First off, the sheer size of the 501st. Nobody has seemed to notice that it has numerous sub-groups some of which out-number the 405th by themselves. The variety of Star Wars armor suits is too many to count where as Halo only has nine (counting all different versions) Second, their armor is much more accurate, stream-lined, comfortable, and tougher (depending on what kind of armor you're comparing). Sure the armor kits usually sell for $500-$800, but they are worth the materials and labor. They won't even accept you into the 501st unless you have a complete, movie-accurate, professional set of armor. I've seen a lot of the projects at work here and they are less than accurate to sale the least. Then the popularity of Star Wars vastly out-numbers Halo, but that's a given. And finally, there's the organization. The 501st of course has been to many conventions and holidays. They have been in marches, conducted charities, ushered conventions, and even have their own weekend at Disney's MGM Studios. There are individual platoons, squads, and detatchments all around the world for fellow 501st members to gather and have fun, help with their projects, and represent the 501st at small-town conventions and are more than happy to help beginners get started on their own projects. The only way I see the 405th beating the 501st is that A) armor can be a hell of a lot cheaper (pep armor), and the requirements to be a part of the unit are far less strict.

Now again, I meant no offense and tried to say things in the nicest, most objective way possible. This is just how I see it and you should take it for what it is. And for all those who find it appropriate to insult the 501st and it's members, $10 bucks says you had a bad experience with the 501st, and thus like to take it out by doing so here.

Whew! Fingers hurt.

We aren't forgetting those ranks, they aren't part of the UNSC Navy rank structure. They feature in the UNSC Marine Corps.

On the topic of the 501st many of the advantages you mention are simply due to time established. I would say that both size and organisation mainly come around through time and it should be remembered that the 405th hasn't even officially been established yet

Whilst yes many of the suits featured on this site are not of a professional quality I put this down to the influx of members due to Halo 3 and if you look around the site I think you will see that overall the quality is on the up with recent members such as Spase and Darth joining the ranks of the elite.

I hope this does not come over as confrontational I am just trying to make the point that just because the 405th is not currently the level of the 501st we are not a hopeless cause. Personally I believe that a good relationship will form between the two organisations and I see a friendly rivalry as no threat to a possible relationship.

I think even with lax standards, only 10%, maybe less, of the pep stuff I've seen here would make it. As in all things, Sturgeon's Revelation applies.
In my honest opinion, it kind of boils down to a 'Don't waste your time' proposition for the prospective builder when faced with the choice of molded vs. pep.

Whilst yes a lot of the pep at the moment is of low quality much of this is using old files from Halo 2. With the great new work of Flying Squirl, DF4L, Slyfo etc I expect to see the overall quality of Pep work to rise as well. I also agree with Ruze that the calm after the storm will also contribute to bringing about a higher quality of work.

 

[Nomadic Spoon]

Whilst yes a lot of the pep at the moment is of low quality much of this is using old files from Halo 2. With the great new work of Flying Squirl, DF4L, Slyfo etc I expect to see the overall quality of Pep work to rise as well. I also agree with Ruze that the calm after the storm will also contribute to bringing about a higher quality of work.

I have to agree. My pep from the Halo 2 stuff? It looks like crap. But I'm working on stuff from Slyfo's models at the moment, and I have to say that the new models presented by people are good. I think as time goes on and people get better at glassing and pepakura in general, we'll see the quality increase substantially. Especially if people are willing to put in the time and effort to make it so. Number One.

>.>
<.<

If anyone actually got that joke, I might just cry. XD

 

[Sinjinsmiley]

make it so. Number One.
If anyone actually got that joke, I might just cry. XD

Well I don't know if it actually qualifies as a joke but I was sad enough to get it

 

[Nomadic Spoon]

Well I don't know if it actually qualifies as a joke but I was sad enough to get it

I'm nerdy. It's nerdy. It auto-qualifies as a joke.

 

[charlie tuna]

Actually, you need an accurate Imp costume from any part of the Empire, not just those in the white armor to get in the 501st.
Trooper is actually quite good, their just hampered by a helmet designed to intimidate the 'lower classes' not to permit the wearer to decently engage in combat with opposing forces that can see what they're shooting at, and what's shooting at them.

 

[pockets]

i think given enough time and a high level of dedication we can weed out some of the non committed halloween/release guys and eventually form a good group here. The 501st gets alot of their stuff in the form of almost mass produced kits for around $600, its a bit easier for the vacuuforming guys, we have guys like rob westerfield and briars armor and their kits are affordable. the one major difference is, to make THE BEST MC costume, vacuuforming just doesnt cut it as well as cast urethane suits which are far more expensive to produce, and more time consuming than making a vaccuformed kit. I think someday we'll be there, just not right now.

 

[Nomadic Spoon]

I definately agree, and I think that we're going to see an influx of members on these forums when Halo Wars comes out, or when Peter Jackson's thing finishes, and even next halloween. It's the inevitable conclusion of being one of the few sites around that covers the topic. So every year there's going to be a point when we get flooded with costumes that aren't great. Who knows; maybe some of the people will stick around long enough to make the effort worthwhile. But I guarantee you that we'll find in the coming months and years that people will become dedicated, hard-working, and willing to do a lot to get their suits to be the best they can be, whether they're pepakura, vacuumformed, urethane, or whatever else tickles you fancy. It's just going to take TIME, and that's something the 501st have a lot more of as a result of being around longer. Our turns will come.

 

[Kaya Tetsu]

If I could make a suggestion abou the member influx every halloween/halo (insert event her)/etc?

Have a section of the forum specifially for people who want to make armour for halloween , etc. We could help them with their armour,but if they rush it then its no big deal...or something like that.

Just a suggestion.

 

[papamurf812]

I disagree, I've seen some really bad costumes on their. Not stormtrooper, but some of the other stuff just seems so bad.

 

[Zaso117]

From what I've gathered about stormtrooper costumes, it seems like pep is by far the cheapest, then a storm trooper costume, then a molded mjolnir amor suit. Unfortunatly, it's hard to make a suit in between the quality of molded and pep for like 6 or 7 hundred dollars. But it is most definitly possible to make some nice smooth armor out of pep that looks really good. Just ask Spase/DarthCaliber/MCL

 

[CMANavy]

Another 501st member here.

I am also a Rose Parade Survivor, I was one the Shocktrooper in the back of the second company (the big guy).

This organization can become like the 501st all it takes is time and numbers.

I also have to say most armor can't be done over night. It takes time, skill and money. My clone I slowly worked on over a year or longer. My Boba Fett, is awsome and has taken well over 19 months and is constantly undergoing upgrades. There are alot of us will great skill sets coming over to to Halo costuming. The quality of peoples armor is going to go up with the skill level around here.

 

[dacacheman]

No pepakura? Not everyone has the funds or expertise to get into molded/vaccuformed costuming. Isnt the purpose of the 405th to help people make costumes in any way they can? You guys are getting blinded to the true mission of the 405th. If someone can make a pepakura helm with body fill and proper finishing, it looks just as good as a molded/vaccuformed model. I am a member of a predator costume site, one of our best costumes was made with plastic buckets! Let us not deviate from our core values.

 

[Darth Malevelus]

Holy crap. That was amazing. Id love to do that. The simple fact is since our armor is not easily made as theirs, it takes much longer, but then there is more passion in it. This group is still very young. How long as the 501st been around ? Great job by them.

The reason the 501st has such notoriety, is their charity work, and their costume standards. Its one thing to have a fan made costume, and its entirely another to make a costume that looks like you just stepped out of the warthog.

Their costumes are just as hard as ours, and they have just as much passion in it.

They have only been around longer.

We as a group need to get out and get active, as well as set some minimum standards for our costumes to publicly represent the 405th.

 

[Primal Weyland]

I took a read through this and facepalmed.


We're not the 501st. Why the hell are we even TRYING to be?

The thing that vastly distinguishes the 501st from the 405th is TIME. The 501st has been around for a lot longer and has had time to enforce rigid standards about everything - something I'd find incredibly stifling for a group like the 405th.

The point is: why are we trying to be someone else, when we should be concentrating on who WE are? **** the competition, I'm only here to have fun and make some nice armor along the way. If it comes out at a decent quality, maybe I'll consider mucking around with 'accuracy' - however accurate a 5'8" SPARTAN Scout is...

And there goes my next point - accuracy. I'll point out that the 501st put up these rigid standards to enforce quality among the group, and that's fine. I can't argue with wanting a group to look good and professional. But think about it: were they always like this? Odds are they started out just like us, working with limited resources and references - the high-quality moulds and armor pieces weren't always available to them. Just as they aren't to us.

We're a group in our infancy. Let's not try to run before we can walk. Get a few decent-quality sets churned out, get the numbers up, grab a few troops under our collective belt.... then maybe we can aspire to be like the 501st. Until then.... let's be happy with being the 405th. The Halo Guys.

 

[Darth Malevelus]

Exactly,

One of the things that really becomes frustrating in trying to join the 501st, is the quality requirements.
They can get to seem absurd, that is until you get accepted and start trooping, and you quickly notice things.

I totally agree about walking before running! We need to establish a set of resources for ourselves, first. Getting establisahed will come in time.