Foam Armoring

[thunderlot]

I've been reading and it seems that the most common method is plastic dip for sealing and some sort of paint on top. Is it possible to completely eliminate everything except for hot glue for attaching and sealing and the foam coat/bounce mix for durability? For sealing the only choices I can see are hot glue, plastic-dip or Elmer's glue and since I'm already using hot glue it seems more logical to continue on with a known medium/way. As for durability the coat/bounce mix Zat German mentioned seems like it would hold up better then Mod Podge or Plastic-Dip if you were using it to increase strength. Not that I'm not impressed with the results of plastic dip but I'd like to avoid it if possible. When I was looking to see if its toxic I found this but I'm hoping I've mistakenly come across a product with a very similar name.

http://www.emedco.info/rtk/common/wcd00017/wcd01797.htm

Trying to avoid having to use a respirator since there's only 2 months in the whole year that the weather is actually right for it in Sask. For some reason the snow has been appearing at odd times and then leaving. It snowed in June and it'll most likely start again in Sept which doesn't give a noobie such as myself enough time to experiment and complete a full set.

 

[Zat German]

Nice find there. It looks totally safe to me. It seems like it is a cellulose/wax-based material. The only issue I have with it is that you have to heat it up to 350 degrees Fahrenheit first. The fumes are non-toxic but I have no idea what that would do to foam when you try putting it on the foam or dipping it.

Heating EVA foam up to that temp will definitely cause warping as it cools and ruin any pre-forming with heat that you have done. You may need to re-form it and detail could be lost as the weight of the dip presses on the foam during cooling. The website also lists the dip as having an "oily film" which would not be nice for painting.

 

[J326]

well the thing is this is foam so trying to super strengthen it in a cheap way isn't going to happen or least not well. Just sealing so that it can receive paint is the point so do a few very light coats of mod podge then primer and sand the primer. respray or reapply mod podge where necessary.

 

[thunderlot]

Nice find there. It looks totally safe to me. It seems like it is a cellulose/wax-based material. The only issue I have with it is that you have to heat it up to 350 degrees Fahrenheit first. The fumes are non-toxic but I have no idea what that would do to foam when you try putting it on the foam or dipping it.

Heating EVA foam up to that temp will definitely cause warping as it cools and ruin any pre-forming with heat that you have done. You may need to re-form it and detail could be lost as the weight of the dip presses on the foam during cooling. The website also lists the dip as having an "oily film" which would not be nice for painting.

Thanks for warning me about the heat I didn’t notice that; it would have defeated the purpose wouldn’t it? Another option I considered was trying Aqua Resin but fibreglass is out of the question even their own brand. It says on the site no irritation not non toxic but considering it is fibreglass I was suspecting as much. I can’t seem to find any comparison to how strong resin is without fibreglass so if I had to guess it would be defeating the point or somewhere along those lines.

well the thing is this is foam so trying to super strengthen it in a cheap way isn't going to happen or least not well. Just sealing so that it can receive paint is the point so do a few very light coats of mod podge then primer and sand the primer. respray or reapply mod podge where necessary.

Price isn’t really an issue; as I stated earlier because of my inability to go outside, use the garage or open windows due to the temperature hardly being above freezing fiberglass, spray paint, primer or anything aerosol poses a health risk. I imagine hot gluing would be difficult as well. The cold might make it set faster but I’m unsure if I can put it together fast enough or if they’d be warping and such. I’ve noticed people tend to avoid it and damp rain but I can’t speak from experience.

Foam itself seems to be reasonably strong so maybe two or three coats of mod podge over the hot glue might work if I use it on pieces not going through a lot of stress and wear. Shoulders, wrist and shin maybe, everything else would have to be really strong and flexible. Thanks Ben for starting the thread and everyone for sharing their wisdom. Might have to try going all out with the paint and such next year when it’s warm again.

 

[Zat German]

Thanks for warning me about the heat I didn’t notice that; it would have defeated the purpose wouldn’t it?

It certainly could. I think the oily film, which the documentation notes as being 1.5% of material(which is quite a bit) is going to be a bigger issue when you go to try to paint it.

Search for HaloGoddess' thread on AquaResin, she probably has a good description of it in there. This file on the AquaResin site says that you can cast solids with it with 4(or more) parts S3 to 1 part L by weight. That seems to tell me it should dry hard but no idea how brittle it would be.

I need to pick up some ModPodge and give it a try on foam and see what it is like working with. So far though, I really like Bounce and Foam Coat.

 

[PepperChip]

@Thunderlot
I'm not sure if this will help, but did you check out this thread here: http://www.405th.com/showthread.php...ally-Offical-quot-Hot-glue-Method-quot-Method.
If you heated the hot glue up in this fashion it may be easier to work with? Might need some playing around with, but even melting it down like that and brushing it on for connecting pieces together could work better in a colder environment. It would also help to get an more even spread across the foam too.
Personally not the best with estimating things with cold weather, as I live a little ways south of the Equator, and it's usually fairly toasty.

All the information in this here thread will be of great assistance in my own armour making endeavours, thank-you to everyone. It sure beats trying to use chickenwire and paper mache, that's for sure.

 

[Trando434]

It seems a bit easier than pep at least to me. I am not good at puzzles and with pepakura and it's fine detail, I didn't get very far. I have made this kinda of armor before using the BFX technique, and I enjoyed it, but it didn't have a lot of detail. I am thinking of giving this a shot. If $10 can make me a chest plate, I say it's only 10 bucks! WTH! Also, does the foam either resist or absorb 6mm BB's well? cause if it does i just found some good armor!

EDIT: Strike that, I just remembered that I have some 1in foam board in the basement my brother and I used to use as wrestling mat when I was athletic, I shot it with my WE M1911 GBB bounced right off with some minor denting. If this works, Im defiantly making some for airsoft! Now I just have to talk to Trooper Cooper and see if he is willing to make my M1911 into an M6 lol!

 

[Gamemaster]

Price isn't really an issue; as I stated earlier because of my inability to go outside, use the garage or open windows due to the temperature hardly being above freezing fiberglass, spray paint, primer or anything aerosol poses a health risk. I imagine hot gluing would be difficult as well. The cold might make it set faster but I'm unsure if I can put it together fast enough or if they'd be warping and such. I've noticed people tend to avoid it and damp rain but I can't speak from experience.
Foam itself seems to be reasonably strong so maybe two or three coats of mod podge over the hot glue might work if I use it on pieces not going through a lot of stress and wear. Shoulders, wrist and shin maybe, everything else would have to be really strong and flexible. Thanks Ben for starting the thread and everyone for sharing their wisdom. Might have to try going all out with the paint and such next year when it's warm again.

I made an entire foam suit in the middle of BC winter. I used high temp hotglue and it was AWESOME compared to working in the heat. The faster the glue sets the better, and if you are clever enough you can eliminate most of the seams by taping the pep shapes together prior to cutting the foam and cutting the back of the foam to shape it properly, or covering seams with thin foamies. As for painting you do need to do it in a certain temperature range, I had a small shed with a heater and fan and was able to seal with plasti-dip (you can buy brush-on) and then paint (also with brush-on acrilique latex paint)
The foam is very durable, seal it with heat before working with it, then plastidip it, even in high rub or flex zones the worst you get is a crease or 2 and your paint might wear or flake off.

 

[Arioch]

Speaking of sealing foam... Im gonna share with you a little secret I found that is great for this!

http://www.liquidnails.com/products/product.jsp?productId=4

I do still use plastidip for areas I want to look black and rubbery. Oher than that, its Clear Seal! Try it, you'll love it. One warning, it dries fast once applied so once its on smooth... DONT TOUCH IT! Its very hard to smooth out once its started drying. Apply it with a bondo spreader or something similar. I apply it before gluing the pieces together so I can get a smooth, flat finish. Paint DOES NOT flake off of this stuff! However, it does not prevent wrinkles if the foam is bent.

If you try it and like it, pass it on!

EDIT - Forgot to mention, you can get it at Walmart for like 3$ or so a tube.

 

[J326]

Speaking of sealing foam... Im gonna share with you a little secret I found that is great for this!

http://www.liquidnails.com/products/product.jsp?productId=4

I do still use plastidip for areas I want to look black and rubbery. Oher than that, its Clear Seal! Try it, you'll love it. One warning, it dries fast once applied so once its on smooth... DONT TOUCH IT! Its very hard to smooth out once its started drying. Apply it with a bondo spreader or something similar. I apply it before gluing the pieces together so I can get a smooth, flat finish. Paint DOES NOT flake off of this stuff! However, it does not prevent wrinkles if the foam is bent.

If you try it and like it, pass it on!

EDIT - Forgot to mention, you can get it at Walmart for like 3$ or so a tube.

oo that looks good to use to fill up seams, thanks!

 

[Zat German]

oo that looks good to use to fill up seams, thanks!

I like the idea of the Liquid Nails stuff but it is pretty expensive especially since you can only get it in 6 oz tubes instead of 10 oz cylinders.

Experiment failed.
I am currently running a test with clear Polyseamall All-Purpose Adhesive & Caulk in One as an alternative. It takes like 2 hours to dry instead of 5 minutes but it is a soap and water cleanup product vs. mineral oil and is pretty low vapor(no odor I could detect while applying it). It applies white and dries clear like white glue, which can help with making sure you have proper coverage. This stuff is $2.99 for a 6 oz tube or $3.99 for a 10 oz cylinder for a caulking gun at Lowes.

You can get Caulk Savers at Harbor Freight that will let you properly seal tubes for either product for long term use which I definitely recommend.

I will post some pictures once it is cured.

edit: Looks like this stuff is out. It had not dried by this morning in the artificial gap I had created in the foam(it was still white, instead of clear) and still tacky to the touch. It must not be compatible with EVA foam.

 

[van2010rulz]

Hey everybody. I was just wondering for foam, how thick is too thick. I've found some foam mats (interlocking) for cheep and some thinner rolls of foam that's a bit more expensive. All are made out of EVA foam and are anti fatigue.

 

[scouser]

Has anybody tried Smooth Cast liquid plastic 320 or 321 as a sealer/hardener? I was going to use this with pep armor but going to try foam since half my files are now wrong size and I need to get a suit done ASAP.

 

[sirnaut]

Has anybody tried Smooth Cast liquid plastic 320 or 321 as a sealer/hardener? I was going to use this with pep armor but going to try foam since half my files are now wrong size and I need to get a suit done ASAP.

I have some Smooth Cast 320. I will give it a shot and post what happens

 

[TKMI07]

Hey everybody. I was just wondering for foam, how thick is too thick. I've found some foam mats (interlocking) for cheep and some thinner rolls of foam that's a bit more expensive. All are made out of EVA foam and are anti fatigue.

depends on the piece. I used 10mm thick foam for my chest and backpiece of my iron man suit and I will be using 5mm for the smaller pieces and 3mm for the details

 

[UNSC LT commander]

this is an amazing thread, thanks for the know how!

 

[SpartanT117]

So I looked through the thread, and I don't see part 4, the detailing/sealing part? this thread, it's very informative, and I believe I'm going foam with my chestpiece for sake of time and finger pains. lol

 

[Gamemaster]

So I looked through the thread, and I don't see part 4, the detailing/sealing part? this thread, it's very informative, and I believe I'm going foam with my chestpiece for sake of time and finger pains. lol

I use Plasti-dip for a sealant, black spraybombs work best. http://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Dip-I...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B000LNOOEO

 

[SpartanT117]

I use Plasti-dip for a sealant, black spraybombs work best. http://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Dip-I...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B000LNOOEO

ok, thanks for that, I heard many foam users mention Plasti-Dip, I've heard it helps the foam to soak in paint easier. I heard Ben say in the last video you detail with a Dremel, so I guess you eyeball it from the model, so I'm just gonna patiently wait for the next vid! lol

 

[Gamemaster]

ok, thanks for that, I heard many foam users mention Plasti-Dip, I've heard it helps the foam to soak in paint easier. I heard Ben say in the last video you detail with a Dremel, so I guess you eyeball it from the model, so I'm just gonna patiently wait for the next vid! lol

My preferred method for details is to look at the reference pictures and decide if it is an inset detail or a bass relief detail. I measure and/or eyeball it and then for inset details I either cut out the shape directly in the foam, press it in 2-4mm and re-glue it in place or for inset lines I use a wood-burning hot iron or soldering tip and a metal ruler. I wear a respirator as the fumes might be bad and they give me a headache regardless. You can use a dremel, but I find the lines are not as crisp and it makes more of a mess.
For the bass relief details I cut out the shapes from 3mm crafting foam and glue them in place.
If you visit the how-to-make-helmets page in my sig link I have a reference picture for the various hot iron tips and the results you can achieve, as well as a link to buy the exact tool I use.
Good luck and happy armoring!