Bullet proof Rondo idea for the professionals

[Austuck117]

I had an epiphany while watching Mythbusters the other day. It was the episode with pykrete, which is just wood chips in water that is frozen into ice. Pykrete was put to the test of its myths, one of which was that it was bullet proof. This turned out to be true and made me wonder, what else could be made bullet proof with wood chips? Then I thought of mixing the wood chips with RONDO. I posted this so that people could take up the challenge and find out if we could make actual bullet proof armor. Please post if you have tried it and post your results.

Also, watching the episode would be really helpful.

Here is a clip (not Mythbusters) about Shooting Pykrete:

 

[blue2k]

There is a reason why they use Kevlar for ballistic protection. I would not trust my safety to ice and woodchips, or even rondo and woodchips. I seem to recall the British almost made aircraft carriers out of this mixture during ww2 for arctic patrols.

 

[CoolC]

I only have one question. Why would we want to spend all those money to make our "costumes" bulletproof?

 

[vincentallen2]

I only have one question. Why would we want to spend all those money to make our "costumes" bulletproof?

So we can fight against the impending Covenant alien attack in 552 years from now, duh ;-D

This is pretty cool, but I see where CoolC is going. The materials needed just to make a regular decent costume suit of Armor is can be pretty expensive. To test something like this, you would need someone with extra cash or materials and who doesn't have a build of his/her own being worked on. All be it, it's still a really cool idea

 

[Austuck117]

Thank you for the information. Also I made a mistake in the actual post. It is wood shavings (like the stuff that comes of wood when you use a chainsaw) not wood chips. So it would not cost any money if you already have a chainsaw and some logs. I just thought it was a cool concept/idea to try.

 

[PlayByMyOwnRule]

Thank you for the information. Also I made a mistake in the actual post. It is wood shavings (like the stuff that comes of wood when you use a chainsaw) not wood chips. So it would not cost any money if you already have a chainsaw and some logs. I just thought it was a cool concept/idea to try.

Oh what a wondrful I idea I do agree there is no point for it but theres also no piont in making replica halo armor either, just the fact to go around saying ya I made this and its bullet-proof would be awesome. Me thinks i'm going to be giving this a try.

 

[Carpathia]

... just the fact to go around saying ya I made this and its bullet-proof would be awesome.

Until someone decides to test that claim. How secure are you about your bulletproof construction technique? There are times when even real, military-grade ballistic armor fails.

I don't want to start anything, but this topic has been brought up before, maybe not using wood shavings as a material, but the concept of bulletproof Halo armor has been discussed. I personally think it should not be encouraged, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It is a good conversation piece, but could get pretty expensive (though I suppose I can't say that about wood shavings, assuming it works).

 

[CoolC]

Until someone decides to test that claim. How secure are you about your bulletproof construction technique? There are times when even real, military-grade ballistic armor fails...

You forgot to mention also it depends on the caliber of the bullet. While I'm not a military person myself, but I'm pretty sure most bullet proof vest or armor can only withstand small caliber weapon. I've seen a documentary of new 50-cal bullets chew off everything, and from a distance.

The point I'm making is how far do you want to go with your bullet-proofing?

 

[Jason 078]

I actually tested some bulletproof items before, and the best that can be said is that they are more bullet resistant. See, the thing about bulletproofing is that you don't just need to make an item that can stop the bullet, you need to make an item that can stop the bullet and redistribute the kinetic energy.

I've been shot from about 95 meters by a 7.62mm round fired from an AK-47 in Iraq in my IBA (Interceptor Body Armor). The shot missed my SAPI (steel reinforcement) plate and struck over my kidney. The bullet didn't penetrate the armor, but I had a level 4 bruised kidney and a visible bruise the size of my hand (not small). It wasn't an enemy attack, it was an @$$hat playing around with an AK that went off. That Private did MANY pushups because I didn't want him arrested. He became my $!^(# for the next month until I was rotated home.

At the same time, I have been shot at two meters with four shots in a 2-inch group from a .45 caliber handgun while wearing/testing dragonscale. Yeah, I've been hit harder by nerf darts. However, upon inspection, the scale had unwound and was useless.

I have also seen a substance called gel-lock which is a gel that becomes completely solid with sharp force. It is freaky.

My idea is for a resin/ceramic layer on the outside to shield and protect the internals from general wear. A layer of rubber to absorb primary impact and concussive force. A layer of gel-lock to prevent penetration. A layer of scales to redistribute force. A layer of kevlar to environmentally seal the scales from behind. Finally, a layer of foam to pad the suit away from the skin.

From my estimations, the entire thing would be approximately 1" thick. When I have enough money, I plan to make a suit for testing, but right now I have only a 1 square foot piece fully made. I've tested it with a piece of contact paper against a wood post with everything up to my Desert Eagle at about 3 meters (minimum range at the range I use). The contact paper showed the same force as if hit by a paint ball.

Just my two cents. However, I would more want a suit akin to Mandalorian armor or N7 armor rather than Spartan armor... I like my abdomen too much.

 

[rcracer1997]

It's a good idea but i wouldn't use wood chips. Try using cevlar sheets. Instead of having one big sheet. Layer smaller sheets and place them inside the armor. This would bullet proof them, Be lighter, but the only problem with this is that you would have to make your armor about a 1/2 bigger to fit all that in. For the visor plate in front, Try calling a company that make bullerproof glasses and see if you can get a piece of flat uncut balistics plastic.

 

[Austuck117]

Jason-078, I would like to thank you for both your information and your service to our country.

 

[demo084]

several layers of paper (aka a book), thick leather jacket, your current foam/fiberglass/rondo armor, or even your sunglasses are all capable of stopping bullets. It depends on the range and kinetic energy remaining in the bullet upon impact. You could say everyones armor is already bullet proof if you tried to penetrate it with a .22 round. So if you're going for the "look at me" factor, most of you can claim your armor is bullet proof while leaving out that anything larger than a .22 or pellet gun would penetrate.

Yet, I must accept the challenge. I happen to be a very avid shooter with access, and purpose to shoot everything from the .22LR up to .50 APIT (armor piercing incenerary tracer). And I accrued a .338 while in Alaska. So if this is still a hot topic when I return from my deployment I will assembly "armor" plates in different fashions and techniques to test our theories. You never know, we could discover a new lightweight, inexpensive body armor.

 

[Jason 078]

Yet, I must accept the challenge. I happen to be a very avid shooter with access, and purpose to shoot everything from the .22LR up to .50 APIT (armor piercing incenerary tracer). And I accrued a .338 while in Alaska. So if this is still a hot topic when I return from my deployment I will assembly "armor" plates in different fashions and techniques to test our theories. You never know, we could discover a new lightweight, inexpensive body armor.

Ain't it great being in the military? With access to all that, I am guessing that you are an armorer like I was. I "tested" a number of the weapons I serviced to make sure they shot right.

Believe me, I am close with my design. I just need to get the funds together to make a set and take it to the Fort Lewis-McCord open testing day they hold every couple of years. If I can build a full suit for about $500, it will make the current IBA look like a third-rate knock off (or something built by the lowest bidder). The most expensive component, oddly enough, is the dragon scales.

Good luck on your deployment and keep your head down, brother.

 

[foxleader]

There is a reason why they use Kevlar for ballistic protection. I would not trust my safety to ice and woodchips, or even rondo and woodchips. I seem to recall the British almost made aircraft carriers out of this mixture during ww2 for arctic patrols.

yeah that boat is in a lake somewhere in canada so yeah it a bad Idea. but yeah i would use steel and a balic gel to be bullet proof.

 

[demo084]

Jason
- I should be back at JBLM in March. I'm actually EOD, but I have a wide assortment of personal firearms. And yes, it is awesome being EOD and military. Although I avoid the "h" word like a plague. It never made sense to me, it's a noise made because people are to lazy to respond with a proper response. I digress though. I'd like to see a light weight armor that doesn't compromise your mobility as much, but that's the trade for protection.

Foxleader
- Steel is a horrible choice for armor. Unless you're a multiton ship. It's too heavy for the protection it doesn't offer, and with modern composites you can get the same strength as steel in a significantly lighter package.

 

[Cewelowic]

Pykrete suffers several inches of penetration from rifle sized rounds.
I'm not toting several inches of pykrete as body armor. Its a structure only type armor, like steel.

Jason's armor seems pretty viable, but I don't think any of us can just scrounge up non-newtonian liquids.

 

[demo084]

Pykrete suffers several inches of penetration from rifle sized rounds.
I'm not toting several inches of pykrete as body armor. Its a structure only type armor, like steel.

Jason's armor seems pretty viable, but I don't think any of us can just scrounge up non-newtonian liquids.

didn't myth busters do a "walk on water" segment. They mixed corn meal in water to a consistency that when impacted by their feet it would momentarily solidify. So if you had, or came up with a gel with similiar properties you could be done.

I just had a pretty extinsive conversation with some other troops about how todays technology could be used to make a ligitimate ODST suit that would function in very similiar ways to the game. The limiting factors are desire and budget.

 

[Jason 078]

Jason's armor seems pretty viable, but I don't think any of us can just scrounge up non-newtonian liquids.

You mean like the D3O dilatant non-Newtonian fluid? I have a couple of samples of this stuff. It feels like those gel bicycle seats unless you try to press into it too fast... then it feels like a classic 80s BMX seat.

I guess that since none of you will try to steal away my designs, I'll go into a little more detail... just not too much.

The resin/ceramic layer is a mix I have used for a little while. I was turned onto it when a friend began to make Mandalorian helmets out of the stuff... helmets that have survived an accidental fall from a second story balcony edge onto a concrete sidewalk. Between that, and a nice light layer of self-etching primer and you can put anything you want on it paint-wise.

The rubber layer is the first defense for shock absorption and is more used to absorb the concussion impact of explosives rather than the actual shrapnel. Rather than the foamed rubber that most military uses in vehicle armor (the thick kind), this is a thinner solid sheet. It also has the benefit of sealing the gel and dragon scales to environmental impact (the foe of the dragon scale).

The d3o is the primary reactant for the armor and is located in a stable pack behind the rubber and on top of (directly on top of) the dragon scale. It is not homogenously layered over the scales, but is about 1/8" thick at the thinnest part. It does flow around the scales and is part of them, in a sense. However, when it hardens and the impact force is transferred to the scales, there are pockets that open between the gel and scales, adding to the redistribution of force.

The dragon scales are used to distribute the impact and act as a secondary layer of protection if the gel layer is only able to slow down the penetration (such as with armor piercing rounds). Unlike normal dragon scale, this kind is a smaller version with smaller rolls of kevlar as it is not the primary protection source. The scales generally distribute only across two scales at the most (about four inches), but the smaller ones distribute across four scales equally (same distance). So, the force is spread to more points of impact (in that makes sense).

The kevlar is layered behind the dragon scale more to seal the scales against the moisture. That is the only thing that causes the scales to unravel (though taking four rounds at three meters from a .45 also causes it). The kevlar also acts as a stable backing for the next layer.

The final layer is a medium density foam (about like EVA) that is used to provide impact resistance to the body. It is not very thick, about the thickness of the dragon scale. Just enough to keep it off of the skin. This layer is also removable for cleaning. Also, with incorporated gutters, it can assist with cooling under the suit.

I've been looking at armor designs that provide good protection without hampering movement and flexibility. I have pretty much decided on N7 armor, but with some modifications. The forearm armor will close a little more around the arm. The midsection armor is separate from the chest and upper back armor and is wider, as well as separate from the cod and seat armor. The hip portion of the thigh armor is separate. The thigh armor extends a little more around the inner portion of the thigh to protect more of the leg.

 

[hobbitdude13]

Too bad D30 can't be made to solidify from electrical impulses AND kinetic impacts. Then, theoretically, it could be used to enhance physical strength. It would function as additional muscles, but without succumbing to fatigue. Programming the impulses would be tricky, as it would need to match the bodys exactly, or any misalignment would cause injury.

 

[Jason 078]

Thank you, I almost forgot about the helmet. It would be nearly identical to the standard military helmet, but would have an integrated pull-down visor and a segmented skirt in the rear to protect the back of the neck down to the collar of the armor. The best way I could describe it is more akin to a samurai helmet, but with the rear made of overlapping kevlar sheets.

The undersuit is another consideration. The military does not take combat conditions into the make of their uniforms. However, I have written that into many of my books. The uniform would have to have basic ballistic and concussive protection without the sacrifice of movement. It will not require much, just enough to cover those areas not protected by the armor.

The material would be weather resistant while still breathing. Not quite goretex, just something close. As with the unauthorized uniforms, the majority can be more comfortable cloth (like the chest of the shirts that many soldiers wear under their IBA). The pattern does not have to be overtly camouflaged, but definitely should be something uniform-like.

With that in mind, standard kevlar sheeting can be used to supplement the cloth of the undersuit. The insides of the thighs, the undersides of the arms, and the sides of the torso would require the sheeting to make this armor effective. At the same time, adding padding to the tops of the shoulders, the hips, the knees, seat, and elbows would provide more protection for the general bumping and jostling of a combat soldier.

Finally, the headgear would be more akin to a medieval arming cap and coif. The top (protected by the helmet) would be designed for comfort of wear and to wick the moisture away to the back of the neck (away from the face). The covering would come down with holes for the ears while still covering them. The neck would be more ballistic material and it would include a coif to cover the front of the neck (like the pile cap).

The gloves would include some protection over the tops of the fingers as well as padding for the base of the palm. And the boots would be taken back to the black leather Army Combat Boots. Why? Two reasons. First, I have never known anyone to break their ankle in a pair of the black leathers, but have seen five in the new suede/cloth. Second, a good pair of shined boots is the symbol of discipline in the ranks!