Deployment Tier System

[Harri51]

Good day,

As the title suggests this is about the Deployment armor tier system that is in place to have better understand and "Standards" if you wish to call them.

The back story is simple on the Discord or in messages I hear and see several members frustrated and confused on the tier system. What really qualifies as a tier 2 to 3; or how can I rate my current suit before deployment? The mantle is so vague what does this even mean? How is it this person got a tier "x" and mine is just as good as theirs?

I know with each changing of the DMO means a new set of eyes on the Mantle's interpretation. Now several members are fired up after RandomRangers Tier Three. With that said, as an RMO currently my job is to assist members with this and it is hard because all I can say is 95% accurate or above and proper details within 5 feet. Now, I know we have several reference threads and Ranger has been assembling strong threads to assist in this matter for all the members. Myself personally, I know other things about the tier system from discussions, but that is not my point. Outside of the ODST cosplay guide, we have been graced with, I would suggest an approved tier guide of what would be allowed seam lines in foam, undersuits, gloves, etc. Within this referencing the 343 cosplay guide or guides.

By what I mean is things such as images of the seams on foam, the details, and points if pepakura, links to several of the material builds/help threads. This is so any DMO, RMO, or member can go in and see what makes that tier 3,2, or 1. Or even material lists like what this paint color on the guide is under these brands, what this flak vest can be fabric wise, or how to get the rubber look on something that is meant to be rubber on "X" suit. Also, this then holds each costume to a set standard, and no one in the future when......"not pleased" ......can throw it back at division or regiment officers and (hopefully) it helps keep some peace.

I know my thought seems vague as well but this just a thought to hopefully expand and then becomes something to help our community more.

 

[FANGS]

This actually something that has long been in the works (sloooowwwllly) but thank you for the suggestion!

 

[Harri51]

I'd be willing to help however possible.

 

[CrimsonViper97]

Having a clear list of required details to get each tier for many of the most common suits would be really great. I know it's trickier because of the nature of game models to decide what details and materials are actually canon, but even a small step towards documented standards would be very useful.

 

[JulioAndy]

Agreed. As someone who participates in multiple costume groups(Mando Mercs, 501st, etc), I think a sort of "costume reference library" would be very beneficial. Using the members own approved costumes to build a database of what "right" looks like for each tier and costume would do wonders for people new to the community like myself trying to build their first Halo costume.

 

[FANGS]

Agreed. As someone who participates in multiple costume groups(Mando Mercs, 501st, etc), I think a sort of "costume reference library" would be very beneficial. Using the members own approved costumes to build a database of what "right" looks like for each tier and costume would do wonders for people new to the community like myself trying to build their first Halo costume.

Hello JulioAndy! I'm a 17 year member of the 501st and I agree, that CRL is a thing of beauty. The issue for us is that the CRL is actually a separate database that a 501st member structured and set up for them. We actually reached out to him to see if he was interested at all in doing something similar here and what the cost would be. Unfortunately, from what I can remember, he did that while he was a student and now is working and I think has a family etc. and the time just isn't there for him to take on something that massive. Or at least something like that, it's been a few years since we talked to him. Anyway, getting someone to build something like that is very expensive unless you happen to have someone like the 501st did that was willing to do it for free.

Having said all of that, we are most definitely trying to work on SOMETHING that will be effective for our members.

 

[he4thbar]

If you need some guidelines for tier 3 for odst I have some notes that I was suggested when I asked what I needed to go from t2 to t3?
some quick ones i remember

• ODST back pack
• chest buckles
• flashbangs/stun grenades
• markings (red slashes and little marks/insignias)

stuff like that.

 

[JulioAndy]

I'm a 17 year member of the 501st and I agree, that CRL is a thing of beauty. The issue for us is that the CRL is actually a separate database that a 501st member structured and set up for them. We actually reached out to him to see if he was interested at all in doing something similar here and what the cost would be. Unfortunately, from what I can remember, he did that while he was a student and now is working and I think has a family etc. and the time just isn't there for him to take on something that massive. Or at least something like that, it's been a few years since we talked to him.

Hello, good to meet a fellow trooper. I'm a 10 year member myself. Thank you for informing me, I had no idea.

Perhaps there could be something more like the Mando Mercs old costume requirement/library (they've changed it since I last looked at it).
Where each part is described and suggestions are provided for materials and things like that.

E.g. Boba Fett
"Helmet
• Dome and cheeks must be painted an olive-green color (matte).
• Upper cheeks must be painted a dark blue-green (matte).
• Mandibles, brow, rear band, and key slots must be painted dark red (matte). Key slots are weathered metallic, like the earcaps
• The rear panels must be painted a medium green color (matte)
• The earcaps must painted silver and weathered to match references.
• 18 kill stripes must be painted on the left side of the dome. They must be painted dark orange. They shall not touch the helmet brow.
• A borden connector greeblie must appear on the inner lower portion of the right cheek.
• The front left side of the dome must prominently feature the famous dent.
• The paint chipping and weathering on the helmet must be painted to match visual references as closely as possible both in color and in weathering pattern.
• The rear key slots must feature a Casio MQ-1 circuit board or resin copy mounted behind the openings.
• Helmet must have a rangefinder and stalk. The rangefinder’s upper portion must be painted black and the lower portion must be clear/transluscent.


Flight Suit
• Must be a cotton or cotton blend one or two-piece garment colored light grey and must fit snuggly to the wearer.
• Must have long sleeves with short sleeves on top of them.
• Cargo-style thigh pouches must be present with inward facing flaps.
• Each ankle must have shin pockets separated into two compartments.
• Flight suit must be weathered, particularly around the bottom of the legs."

Obviously it could be more or less descriptive based on the costume/character. And to keep it within web budget/ability constraints it could be a locked forum post that can only be altered by the leadership.

I understand this would be a huge undertaking and you may already have something like that in the works. Just figured I'd give my 2 cents

 

[FANGS]

Yes it is a massive undertaking. Fortunately though, we don't have the requirements that they do for such specifics. Unfortunately, that's almost harder to describe in some weird ways.

But like I said, we are working on it. We will get something for you guys and it will be the best that we can make it.

 

[CosplayInClutch]

If you would like, currently I am working on a Reach ODST and having come from MMCC (was once a local officer there) and 501st (I scrutinized the Clone Trooper CRL and build my kit according to the source material and pointed out some outdated information on the CRLs for the clones) I would be willing to help out with the Reach Soldier ones and work on getting source material images for the Reach soldiers since their system seems built on all the same base and adding and taking away parts depending on the individual soldier (army, marine, odst, and even the different ranks and roles)

Where things would get tricky though is tolerances of customization, like would we be limiting to what is exactly seen on screen (pick an individual soldier and build that exactly) or would we allow for more customization of accessories, and paint jobs.

For me on my Reach ODST group build we are going to be diving a bit more into role personalization and taking inspiration from Halo 3: ODSTs squad, where like our sniper has Romeo's helmet attachment, and such.
So I'm not sure how the 405th would want to go down that road of used on screen and customs. But I'm here to help if needed.

 

[ZiggyGrimm]

Love this idea, but it does get quite tricky with the volume of customization that Halo has. Guides for Chief, or specific lore driven characters is fairly straight forward, but the sheer number of variations one could make in making their own Spartan from multiplayer or whatever else is staggering. Making any sort of scoring guideline extremely difficult to create.

Could we simply put out guides to passing deployment based off different build techniques (3D Print vs. Foam etc.) instead? Seems more practical and less exclusionary to the inherent creativity that customization brings to Halo.

Another (very controversial) thought… do the grades matter? Like, not to thrust our whole world into total chaos, but outside of the metaphorical gold star for getting an A+ on the report card are their benefits to scoring higher? We are all just striving to do our best. A pass/ pass with modifications/ fail system might be both easier to implement and more helpful to folks looking to troop.

That train of thought might just be me embracing the “have fun with it” mentality over having members fret about their suit being perfect or 100% accurate (*crowd gasps and starts throwing tomatoes… I immediately duck in cover while the overshields recharge*).

The strict guidelines are honestly what turned me off joining other costuming groups where some members (the vocal minority, of course) take the hobby so seriously it sucks the joy out of it and turns away folks with big love for the subject matter but who might be just learning to craft. Just my two cents.

 

[CosplayInClutch]

Love this idea, but it does get quite tricky with the volume of customization that Halo has. Guides for Chief, or specific lore driven characters is fairly straight forward, but the sheer number of variations one could make in making their own Spartan from multiplayer or whatever else is staggering. Making any sort of scoring guideline extremely difficult to create.

Could we simply put out guides to passing deployment based off different build techniques (3D Print vs. Foam etc.) instead? Seems more practical and less exclusionary to the inherent creativity that customization brings to Halo.

Another (very controversial) thought… do the grades matter? Like, not to thrust our whole world into total chaos, but outside of the metaphorical gold star for getting an A+ on the report card are their benefits to scoring higher? We are all just striving to do our best. A pass/ pass with modifications/ fail system might be both easier to implement and more helpful to folks looking to troop.

That train of thought might just be me embracing the “have fun with it” mentality over having members fret about their suit being perfect or 100% accurate (*crowd gasps and starts throwing tomatoes… I immediately duck in cover while the overshields recharge*).

The strict guidelines are honestly what turned me off joining other costuming groups where some members (the vocal minority, of course) take the hobby so seriously it sucks the joy out of it and turns away folks with big love for the subject matter but who might be just learning to craft. Just my two cents.

So I asked a little more on the Discord about this. Simply put the tiers right now are mainly based on Quality and Accuracy to the content they are working to recreate.
"T1 is you have the form, just proportion errors, gaps, etc “beginner mistakes” or mix matching eras

T2 is better proportions , seams and edges(etc) are cleaner or hardly there. Along with a close enough undersuit say about 75 to 85% accurate

T3 is a proper undersuit, clean work, nearing 90-95% accurate or above(it can be done) and proportions are proper to your form against the game model."

So like it wouldn't get rid of the idea of customization being allowed in at all.
The higher teirs being important are really just for if Microsoft 343i are just like "we have an event, we want X many of people that are Y generation of Z teir or higher." Which I'm not super familiar with the frequency in which those happen. So it's more of a bragging rights than anything. I can see however a detailed CRL (reference not requirement) being useful for having a library of reference material available for if people want to do specific kits or specific Era's of Soldiers that they have something to look at in an easy to read and formatted uniformly.

 

[FANGS]

My apologies CosplayInClutch - we have a zillion and one things going on at the same time here at the moment but I definitely want to talk to you about all of this. Can we schedule a time to do that? Send me a DM and we'll figure it out.

Thanks!

 

[Fallen]

This actually something that has long been in the works (sloooowwwllly) but thank you for the suggestion!

Resurrecting as I'm curious if there's been any more progress on this. Deployment confusion conversations keep popping up, and it's hard getting different answers depending on who you ask. It'd be extremely helpful to be able to pull up a document or something for answers, even if it's not complete yet.

It'd also really help w/ transparency to members deploying in what can often times feel like a subjective process to the person waiting on feedback. I know others have mentioned in the past if there's need for help they'd be willing, and I'll count myself in that group as much as possible at any given time. But for now just asking the question: is there any status update the rest of us can know about this?

 

[FANGS]

Thank you for asking. We do have the bulk of it done and it is going to be worked on as soon as we can.