Halo Cg Fanfilm Wip Thread

[project003]

Not really an update so much as a problem fix for myself, but I just wanted to share it with you guys. So like I said, this is going to be my personal vision for the Halo universe, and regardless of the timeline, if it's the weapon/vehicle/armor varient I want, it's what's going to be in it.

Well, one of the problems I've been running into with my re-visioning is the old trust MA5C assault rifle. It's probably the most iconic weapon in the Halo universe...and also one of the most poorly thought out weapons Bungie ever made. I was excited when I found out they were radically reinventing the assault rifle, but what we wound up with is, i think, even worse. Iconic or not, the MA5C has one single design flaw that makes it completely useless as a military weapon.
(remember, what you're about to see are just rough sketches)







Imagine you're a UNSC marine on Halo. Your by a river with trees ruffling around you, a nav point in the distance. Suddenly, without warning, an ELITE ULTRA jumps out in front and charges you. Quickly, after soiling yourself, you raise your trusty rifle and take aim just as you were trained to...............

......and then fire blindly....consoled by the fact that you at least know how much ammo you might be wasting....



Serious design oversight. So bad that I was seriously considering pulling a Halo 2, dropping it all together, and sticking with the battle rifle. While Bungie's attempt for Reach wasn't what I had in mind, I do think the assault rifle needs a visual overhaul, which I'll be doing at some point in the future. However, no matter how much I tried I couldn't see how to get a viable set of ironsights on the basic silhouette of the assault rifle. I'd about given up when, while playing call of duty, inspiration hit me. It's so simple I can't believe I didn't think of it before (nor can I figure out why Bungie hasn't done it yet):

Problem solved. :cool

this is where your wrong:

weapons like the M6 series and the MA5 or M37 series don't have a sight because they are ment for CQC or short to mid-range battles. you don't aim down the sight liek any other gun. you simply point and spray. me and Ithica had a long discussion about this at the time I was over his place getting my apprenticeship from him. the UNSC also has weapons with sights ie the SMG, the BR, the DMR, the shotgun ect. the point is, the assult rifle and the pistols don't have sights because they are ment for spray the %^$*#^ out of anyone they can see, aim doesn't count for these weapons.

(example, when you are clearing a room, you don't aim down the sights the entire time, you just point and look, dave explained this to me, if you aimed donw the sight, your vision becomes narrowed, therefore, you aim with your eyes, not with your gun. same goes with the pistol, if you look at all these small conceiled-carry weapons, i have a few, none if not all of them have no sights, it's a smooth top slide, these guns are ment for point and shoot. aiming takes too long.)

 

[Tyvern]

the M6C and some of the other M6 series have rear sights and a M92FS style front sights......... just they aren't used in-game......especially the ones with scopes

M6C

M6C/SOCOM

M6G

M6G/B.....the G in REACH

M6D




if it was as easy as spray-n'-pray then why do modern day CQC weapons have sights?..........you're gonna (have to/ need to/ want to) aim every now and then for accuracy...that's why MP7s and MP5s have the rotating adjustable sights so that the CQC specailist can acquire a target faster...

I could be wrong about that but that was based off of my understanding of modern CQC......Ithica is in the military, I am not....I just watch the military channel and play shoot-'em-up games
______________________________________________________________________________
the MA37/MA5 series infantry rifles have a VERY SMALL sight appature above the ammo counter........don't beleive me?....read the part in HALO:CONTACT HARVEST where Forsell and Jenkins are at the range.......Forsell helps Jenkins zero his MA5B's sight appature and give Jenkins advice on how to shoot accurate shots.

In HALO:CONTACT HARVEST Cpt. Ponder uses the sights of his M6 pistol at the range when Forsell and Jenkins are at the range along side him.

 

[Sepharih]

I've got nothing on the head sculpt, But the MC's helmet has to be a Mk V, mostly because it's pretty/better-er than the VI.

I appreciate all feedback, but on this issue in particular, I will not bend. It would be cool to hear ideas on specific details for the armor and other things that could be added and/or taken away, but the Mark VI helmet is non negotiable.
It's just too damn slick and sexy looking.

And I always thought that the marines looked above the AmmoCounter, not directly at it, Good Idea though.

Probably, but the problem is that that still probably wouldn't give you ideal results because of the lack of ironsights.

Also, off topic: I'm a quarter to of the way to Lt-C And I Want my MKV, it's been taunting me since captain!

Lol, I know what you mean. I'm just a few points shy of Major and I feel the same way. Good luck.

this is where your wrong:

weapons like the M6 series and the MA5 or M37 series don't have a sight because they are ment for CQC or short to mid-range battles. you don't aim down the sight liek any other gun. you simply point and spray. me and Ithica had a long discussion about this at the time I was over his place getting my apprenticeship from him. the UNSC also has weapons with sights ie the SMG, the BR, the DMR, the shotgun ect. the point is, the assult rifle and the pistols don't have sights because they are ment for spray the %^$*#^ out of anyone they can see, aim doesn't count for these weapons.

(example, when you are clearing a room, you don't aim down the sights the entire time, you just point and look, dave explained this to me, if you aimed donw the sight, your vision becomes narrowed, therefore, you aim with your eyes, not with your gun. same goes with the pistol, if you look at all these small conceiled-carry weapons, i have a few, none if not all of them have no sights, it's a smooth top slide, these guns are ment for point and shoot. aiming takes too long.)

I'm also not in the military but I have several people who I use as "consultants" who have been, and most of my knowledge that's not from various media comes from conversations with them on this stuff.
Like Tyvern said, even today's spray weapons have ironsights. I understand what you're saying about CQC and clearing a room. My friends explained it to me as aiming with your thumb, rather than your eyes. But even so, it's good to have a set of ironsights in case you wind up in a situation outside of where it functions ideally.
Let me put it too you this way: If the MA5C was really only good as a spray and pray weapon and it wasn't intended to have ironsights, why was it the standard issue for every UNSC ground pounder? For game balancing purposes it makes sense, but why would you give a rifleman a rifle that was only good in close range?
My perspective on the MA5 series and the BR/DMR series has always been that it's something akin to the difference between the Ak-47 and the M-16/m4 series of weapons. One is intended to function more like a machine-gun, while the other leans more towards a traditional rifle. That being said, they are both assault rifles.

Also, what pistols are you using? My grandfather is a huge gun enthusiast and I've been looking at tons of reference, and almost all of the ones I've seen have had ironsights.

 

[Tyvern]

I'd like to point out that at mid-to-long range that you are gonna NEED sights otherwise WTF is the gun doing as a mid ranged weapon?

yes I'd also like to know what modern day sidearm has no sights.

revolutionary war and most civil war firearms didn't have sights......that WAS 200 or 300 YEARS AGO.

the SAS, SWAT, USMC, SPETNAZ, Army, USN SEALs......ALL of them USE SIGHTS in CQC.....they also use DOUBLE TAP(two shots placed in the chest in quick succession at close range on semi-auto)


the M6 pistol is a single shot 12/8/6 rd sidearm.....not a %&#$%% @$@@ up 60/32/28 rd AR.....and aim does count for a pistol.

 

[Roadwarrior]

Sepharih, That's the EXACT same reason I love the Mk V.




And I'll put my very Basic knowledge/opinion of the current Conversation about the CQC Ironsight thing, please correct me if I'm way off on the subject.

So, what I know is to shoot the weapon remotely accurately you need to line the Back with the Front and have it shouldered, or if it's a pistol you lock your arms somewhat and line the back sight with the front sight.

And what I have heard from one of the posts above is "Shoot with your eyes" And that makes me think that person A is just firing at person B from the hip or something else inaccurate.

But what I have seen, and makes sense to me is shouldering the weapon and looking down the barrel, not necessarily aiming directly down the sights so that all you see is the small hole in the front I-S. But just so you can see witch direction the front of the weapon is pointing. Then you acquire target by just rotating your torso/ or whatever you have to do, but you keep the rifle locked on your shoulder and looking down the rifle.

Just my 2 Cents, but If that is Incorrect in any way please don't flame me for my ignorance, just inform me.

 

[FROCKLIFFE]

Sorry to interrupt the debate but, what program are you using for your sculpting?

 

[Sepharih]

And what I have heard from one of the posts above is "Shoot with your eyes" And that makes me think that person A is just firing at person B from the hip or something else inaccurate.

But what I have seen, and makes sense to me is shouldering the weapon and looking down the barrel, not necessarily aiming directly down the sights so that all you see is the small hole in the front I-S. But just so you can see witch direction the front of the weapon is pointing. Then you acquire target by just rotating your torso/ or whatever you have to do, but you keep the rifle locked on your shoulder and looking down the rifle.

Just my 2 Cents, but If that is Incorrect in any way please don't flame me for my ignorance, just inform me.

No, you're correct, but nobody is really arguing proper rifle posture. Obviously, firing from the hip is not a good way to aim in any situation. The issue isn't so much about how you hold the weapon but rather how you aim with the weapon.
In CQC, again, the way it was described to me was (even though you hold the rifle the same way essentially) to not aim down the sights, but rather aim with your thumb. IE, you're looking down the barrel and holding the front end of the rifle with your thumb running parallel with the barrel. That way you can quickly pivot and more easily "point" your thumb and by extension the rifle at whatever your target is rather than lining them up in the sights.
That being said...it still makes sense for the weapon to have some kind of sights. Even if they're meant for closer encounters, the weapon should have some way to aim in longer distances.
I mean hell, even the Shotgun has ironsights, all the good it does it.

Sorry to interrupt the debate but, what program are you using for your sculpting?

Zbrush 4

 

[AI Blue Fox]

great work, this looks promising. BTW pillar of autumn is a halcyon class ship.

 

[Nintendude]

Hey is there any chance of getting the yellow and white sticker that's on the back of Johnsons chest armor as a printable template?

 

[Roadwarrior]

No, you're correct, but nobody is really arguing proper rifle posture. Obviously, firing from the hip is not a good way to aim in any situation. The issue isn't so much about how you hold the weapon but rather how you aim with the weapon.
In CQC, again, the way it was described to me was (even though you hold the rifle the same way essentially) to not aim down the sights, but rather aim with your thumb. IE, you're looking down the barrel and holding the front end of the rifle with your thumb running parallel with the barrel. That way you can quickly pivot and more easily "point" your thumb and by extension the rifle at whatever your target is rather than lining them up in the sights.
That being said...it still makes sense for the weapon to have some kind of sights. Even if they're meant for closer encounters, the weapon should have some way to aim in longer distances.
I mean hell, even the Shotgun has ironsights, all the good it does it.

Ok thanks for the explanation, I think the reason why the AR looks like that might have been that they needed it to look futuristic. Not so much as function :/

 

[project003]

Also, what pistols are you using? My grandfather is a huge gun enthusiast and I've been looking at tons of reference, and almost all of the ones I've seen have had ironsights.

for the longest time, me and my father removed out sights from our concieled carry weapons because it gets caught up in our pockets or in our clothes when drawing them. we were ahead of our time when Colt and kimber both came out with small, 45 caliber, pistols designed without sights for easy draws, and upclose confrontation. I don't know the exact models, but feel free to look them up on google or any other search wngin for firearms. as for sights. only Ithica can explain as well as he did. he had a valid statment, and knowing that he is a 15+ Senior enlisted veteren. I'll take his word before anyone else on the matter.

also: I forgot to mention that shotguns also do not have sights.

 

[Spartan 037]

also: I forgot to mention that shotguns also do not have sights.

not to sound rude but...

those look like sights to me...

 

[Arioch]

They do too.. depends on the model. Some only have a small bead at the end of the barrel.

 

[mustang2500]

They do too.. depends on the model. Some only have a small bead at the end of the barrel.

Most hunting and sport shotguns have beads, not iron sights. But there still are many shotguns (in the military and sporting) that can. Iron sights are mostly used for slugs, where you need to actually aim. Regular shot isn't accurate so expensive iron sights aren't needed.

 

[Spartan 037]

Most hunting and sport shotguns have beads, not iron sights. But there still are many shotguns (in the military and sporting) that can. Iron sights are mostly used for slugs, where you need to actually aim. Regular shot isn't accurate so expensive iron sights aren't needed.

thanks for the insight like the new avatar btw

 

[Sepharih]

[

great work, this looks promising. BTW pillar of autumn is a halcyon class ship.

Lol. I know, creative decision on my part, like I said.

Hey is there any chance of getting the yellow and white sticker that's on the back of Johnsons chest armor as a printable template?

http://www.4shared.com/photo/d39GdRZQ/Johnson_Tags.html

Ask and ye shall recieve.

Ok thanks for the explanation, I think the reason why the AR looks like that might have been that they needed it to look futuristic. Not so much as function :/

I agree...but that's kind of what bugs me about it. I was initially a little cold towards the art direction in reach..but looking at it now I really love how they took their initial concepts and applied real world function and design too them. All the weapons and armor have a degree of plausibility and detail to them while still retaining their iconic designs...and I love it.
The odd one out is the assault rifle. It just doesn't quite work IMO. It needed a better way to aim.

for the longest time, me and my father removed out sights from our concieled carry weapons because it gets caught up in our pockets or in our clothes when drawing them. we were ahead of our time when Colt and kimber both came out with small, 45 caliber, pistols designed without sights for easy draws, and upclose confrontation. I don't know the exact models, but feel free to look them up on google or any other search wngin for firearms. as for sights. only Ithica can explain as well as he did. he had a valid statment, and knowing that he is a 15+ Senior enlisted veteren. I'll take his word before anyone else on the matter.

also: I forgot to mention that shotguns also do not have sights.

Many shotguns do, though not all, granted. Shotguns are a bit of a unique case in that they're not only designed for short range...but are basically impossible to use at all in long range (depending on the type of ammo you're using of course). If you're using buckshot ammo then the whole point is basically to just be able to point in the general direction of the badguy and let the spread take care of it. Aiming is kind of a moot point.
In any case, my central problem with the lack of any kind of sights is still the same. Even if there are weapons which forgo them, we seem to agree that these are essentially specialty weapons designed for specific purposes. In the case of shotguns, it's for close quarters room clearing where you don't have to aim too much. In the case of the pistols you're describing, it's for quick draw capability.
The problem here is that the good old MA5C isn't a specialty weapon, it's the standard issue rifle for the UNSC Marine. You do not give your infantry rifleman a rifle that's only good for CQC. It needs more versatility than that. Even if canonically that's the explanation, i'm damn well correcting it for my film.

 

[project003]

[
it's the standard issue rifle for the UNSC Marine. You do not give your infantry rifleman a rifle that's only good for CQC. It needs more versatility than that. Even if canonically that's the explanation, i'm damn well correcting it for my film.

that's why they have BR55s and DMRs!

Example:
you can put more rounds down range by simply just pointing and shooting. DMRs are too slow, BR55s are too precise, if you need to waste ammo on something down range, ie a tank or a group or infantrymen, make sure the enemy can't make a move without getting literally "rained on" by bullets. marines also use accurate weapons like the BR55 and the DMR because they also need to have precission with their rate of fire. by itself, the MA5c has a hot rate of fire, but lacks in aim. but is deadly at close range, you don't see any marine or trooper looking down the top of the rifle, he's always aiming from the hip or AKA shoulder. with this weapon, the MA5 series is like a shotgun. "the whole point is basically to just be able to point in the general diraction of the badguy and let the spread take care of it." add that with the standard NATO rounds that the AR fires, and you have an effective killing machine with no sights needed.

 

[Tyvern]

@PROJECT003: so if I'm understanding this correctly.....

The M16 shouldn't have sights.

the MA5B/MA5C/MA37 should not have any sort of sight system and the rifle caliber should be made instead into the 7.62mm nogant carbine pistol round?

the DMR/BR should be a standard infantry weapon while the Ar's should be a CQC Asssualt rifle for CQC?

The DMR/BR is no longer a Designated Marksman/ Designated Squad Marksman precision weapon?

the M6 series shouldn't have the sights that are built into the reciever frame?

The M7 should be shot like it's a spray and pray and not have sights?

the SRS99C99/SRS-99/SRS99C99-AMB/S2AM shouldn't have a sniper scope at all but just the scope rial with sights attached?

The MA37/MA5 series AR shouldn't even have the tiny sight appature that it has that's non-visible in the games?

Also: the marines in-game look to the side or at/near the top of the counter shroud where the sight appature whould be.....spartans have smartlink sight reticle systems in their nueral implants/helmet visor smart computers for aiming and thus do not need to look at a tiny sight in the first place.

P.S.really I am trying to understand your point of view but it's kinda hard man.......

 

[project003]

@PROJECT003: so if I'm understanding this correctly.....

The M16 shouldn't have sights.

the MA5B/MA5C/MA37 should not have any sort of sight system and the rifle caliber should be made instead into the 7.62mm nogant carbine pistol round?

the DMR/BR should be a standard infantry weapon while the Ar's should be a CQC Asssualt rifle for CQC?

The DMR/BR is no longer a Designated Marksman/ Designated Squad Marksman precision weapon?

the M6 series shouldn't have the sights that are built into the reciever frame?

The M7 should be shot like it's a spray and pray and not have sights?

the SRS99C99/SRS-99/SRS99C99-AMB/S2AM shouldn't have a sniper scope at all but just the scope rial with sights attached?

The MA37/MA5 series AR shouldn't even have the tiny sight appature that it has that's non-visible in the games?

Also: the marines in-game look to the side or at/near the top of the counter shroud where the sight appature whould be.....spartans have smartlink sight reticle systems in their nueral implants/helmet visor smart computers for aiming and thus do not need to look at a tiny sight in the first place.

P.S.really I am trying to understand your point of view but it's kinda hard man.......

no no no:

M16s have nothing to do with this. M16s are mostly standard issue, but you CAN remove the sights or have "flip" sights which are used for small battlefields.

the 7.62mm is standard worldwide NATO rounds that most every country in the United Nations uses, incliding USA, the 7.62x54 is the Mosin Nogant round.

since when was I ever talking about the sniper rifle?

the M7 has sights!

the AR is a small-medium range battlefield rifle, if you can point at your target with your finger, you can hit him with a short burst of bullets. the DMR/BR is the medium-LONG range battlefield rifle.

the M6 pistol doesn't need sights when it has a small 2x scope!\

p.s. the only part that you understood about my argument was that marines look to the side or near the top of the rifle shroud... other than that you just came out of nowhere...

 

[Sepharih]

that's why they have BR55s and DMRs!

Example:
you can put more rounds down range by simply just pointing and shooting. DMRs are too slow, BR55s are too precise, if you need to waste ammo on something down range, ie a tank or a group or infantrymen, make sure the enemy can't make a move without getting literally "rained on" by bullets. marines also use accurate weapons like the BR55 and the DMR because they also need to have precission with their rate of fire. by itself, the MA5c has a hot rate of fire, but lacks in aim. but is deadly at close range, you don't see any marine or trooper looking down the top of the rifle, he's always aiming from the hip or AKA shoulder. with this weapon, the MA5 series is like a shotgun. "the whole point is basically to just be able to point in the general diraction of the badguy and let the spread take care of it." add that with the standard NATO rounds that the AR fires, and you have an effective killing machine with no sights needed.

Sorry dude, not buying it. Your still not answering my point that if this weapon only worked properly in the situation you're describing it would not be the standard issue weapon for the marines. Highlighting an example where the Ma5C has a tactical advantage over the BR55/DMR does not explain why it lacks any kind of sights for longer distances. A standard issue Assault Rifle is designed to provide a level of versatility.
Also, you're forgetting about firing modes. Most assault rifles in use today come with the ability to fire at either full or semi automatic depending on the situation. Although you cannot do this in game, we know that canonically speaking this function does exist on UNSC weapons. The marines in the Landfall commercials, for example, were firing their Battle Riffles in full auto at certain points. Again, an Assault Riffle like the MA5C should also have a semi automatic mode, even if it's intended to function more like a machine gun.


Sorry, but I'm holding to my initial stance on this one.