halo combat evolved remake?? should it be attempted?

Spartan 037

Well-Known Member
No, this is simply not true. If a group of fans creates something themselves that violates copyright law and distributes it freely either though youtube or some other means, the IP holders have full legal rights to shut them down.
The idea that something is not subject to copyright law because simply because its made and distributed freely is a myth that's been perpetuated by the fact that many companies today, not wanting to go to war with their own fanbase, choose to turn a blind eye to these productions and NOT exercise these rights.

Once again, there is a large and vast amount of legal precedent for companies shutting down fan works. Nintendo and squaresoft/square enix have shut down dozens of total conversions based on their IP's over the years. The Tolkien estate has shut down various mods for morrowind and/or oblivion.
On the flipside, Lucasarts/lucasfilm has pretty much given free reign to fans to make whatever they want in the Star Wars universe (something I still feel fans have never fully appreciated).

Microsoft can and HAS shut down at least 1 total conversion for an RTS. That may have been simply because Halo Wars was in production, and they might be cool with other fan based total conversions (they're certainly cool with other kinds of fanworks thankfully), but they do have a history of shutting these things down.
After shutting down the rts mod however, Microsoft said a game is, no pun intended, fair game as long as the maker doesn't profit. many people thought it was an ass move because they shut down a fan game then said it was alright to make one. Then Halo Wars was announced and every one was like "ooooooh... I see..."
 

SquishyShoes

Well-Known Member
If it's somehow made into a mod for the PC version, there's probably nothing wrong with that. It'd probably only work with the graphics, though.
Queenie's pretty close, a lot of things are possible to emulate, from the H2 and H3 games, with the Halo CE engine, but the graphics side isn't quite up to scratch for straight up modding of Halo 1. Things like jetpacks and sprint could work, but they wouldn't work in multiplaye (or they'd make the file really big, or heaps of lag, or just not possible). You could make remakes of reach levels (i've actually seen it done) with halo 1 graphics, but the other way around might be a little harder and might be for C3po and his team to try and attempt (halo modding community). Sorry, forgot what I was saying halfway through this post and it probably doesn't make sense, haha.
 

SchizophrenicMC

Well-Known Member
Well, wait, it's possible to do it all in Source, with modern graphics, and a lot of the Reach functionality, and voicework could be taken straight from Halo PC. All that would need to happen is new rigging for models, new textures, and some reworking of code in the physics portion of Source, plus screwing with cameras. Only things that I can't see working up to spec in Source is the graphics engine, quite to Reach's engine's abilities.
 

soul products

Well-Known Member
Things like jetpacks and sprint could work, but they wouldn't work in multiplaye (or they'd make the file really big, or heaps of lag, or just not possible). You could make remakes of reach levels (i've actually seen it done) with halo 1 graphics, but the other way around might be a little harder and might be for C3po and his team to try and attempt (halo modding community). Sorry, forgot what I was saying halfway through this post and it probably doesn't make sense, haha.
i just meant the campaign, we should just leave the multiplayer alone. i just think that after bungie put the halo combat evolved easter egg into reach (by now everyone should know what im talking about) it would be cool to see the best of the installment brought up to par, graphically.

so from what im understanding, all this would be possible? you guys seem to know what your talking about
 

Garland

Member
Possible? Most definitely. Feasible? That's gonna be the key here. A project of this scale is going to take a dedicated team several years. If we had large, organised group that knew what they were doing, it might get done in a year, at the best estimate. Realistically, several years. This isn't a conversion or jest prettying up the existing game. We're recreating the game using a different engine. Things like the sound clips can be re-used pretty easily and effectively, and the modeling, texturing, and level construction will also be fairly easy. Animations are gonna be the big deal here, as will the AI programming. I haven't done anything that involved, so I don't know what's required there. Nor have I worked with Source (I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Unreal engine, which is also free to use for community-made games). Without much more research, I cant begin to estimate what will be required in terms of the physics, particle effects, etcetera.

This project needs strong leadership, a large and somewhat-experienced group of people, a cohesive structure with some kind of schedule. To be truly effective and to move at more than a snail's pace, it will take every active user on this site. If you have no experience with modding or game development, then you can gather screenshots and perform research. To give an example, let's look at the 3d modelers. The modeling team will consist of a master modeler who has a lot of experience and is really good. He will be responsible for the big things, like character models and vehicles (most modelers of this calibre are also experienced in animation, rigging, etc.) Under his direct control are the average modelers, people who are good but not the best. They do the majority of the work, making buildings and props and the like. Each of the average modelers is responsible for a few beginning modelers, people that can work the program ok and are decent at some small stuff. These guys and gals are the ones that get to model the distant objects you see on the horizon, maybe some simple buildings and things, plus they get to critique and check over the other modelers. This way they can see what the higher-skilled people are working on (and they can learn from it), but they can also make sure there's no errors, like open or floating faces that shouldn't be there. Below these are the generic helpers that don't have an technical skills, but can provide ample screenshots and research that will aid the modelers in their task. Earlier I mentioned there's a master modeler controlling this big team; well he reports to the Graphical Lead, who reports to the Project Manager(s). There's a reason that video games have a rigid hierarchial structure: it makes life easy and it gets the work done. A community based game is going to have to follow a similar structure in order to make such a huge project work.

Will this project be easy? No. Will it go smoothly? No. Can the 405th pull something like this off? Yes. But there will be setbacks, it will take a while, and there will be a tremendous amount of work involved. We must have a core group who can see this through to the end. People must understand that this project will be like a second job, and it will eat through your spare time, and it will cause a fair amount of stress.

So ask yourself: Is remaking Halo 1 just a nice fantasy, or is it a real goal that you're willing to put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into?
 

AI Blue Fox

Well-Known Member
3 words: Halo Custom Edition

many remakes have been made but the most popular is this: http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=4771
It has a New HD mark V and is 5 times LONGER than the original level. It also includes the Ma5C, battle rifle with grenade launcher, silenced pistol, and many other treast. It also has brutes :) only problem is it is not finished and this is a beta (realeased due to a leak of the progress (basicly the whole campaign)) so try it if you like it.
 

soul products

Well-Known Member
3 words: Halo Custom Edition

many remakes have been made but the most popular is this: http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=4771
It has a New HD mark V and is 5 times LONGER than the original level. It also includes the Ma5C, battle rifle with grenade launcher, silenced pistol, and many other treast. It also has brutes :) only problem is it is not finished and this is a beta (realeased due to a leak of the progress (basicly the whole campaign)) so try it if you like it.
my god is it for pc i couldnt tell
 

SchizophrenicMC

Well-Known Member
Possible? Most definitely.
You had me at Unreal is free.

In the end, the only constraining factor here is lack of experienced game programmers. No one here quite knows the intricacies of rewriting a physics engine, and I can only imagine a very few 405thers know anything about model rigging and animation. But, where there's a will, there's a way. Somehow, though, I don't think that way is in this armoring community. If there were a team of, say, 14 skilled developers, given that an engine and story exist, already and simply need tweaking, working all their free time, it could potentially only take a few months, most of which being debug work.

But we don't have that team. We likely never will. For now, I leave this to dreams. I shall give tribute to Halo in other ways, which I have knowledge in. (Like armoring, because I am now learned)
 

Devious

Well-Known Member
Sprint, Jetpack, Armor Lock, Dropshield, Evade, ETC are ALL possible in the halo 1 multiplayer engine. Ive seen it done, WITHOUT the custom edition tools, but with fan made software. Go to www.macgamingmods.com/forum if interested. The halo 1 graphics are better then most think, its very possible to make the game look PHENOMENAL simply by adding new skins and light maps. the Best part is it's already halo.
 

Sepharih

Jr Member
3 words: Halo Custom Edition
1 word: Obsolete.

Sprint, Jetpack, Armor Lock, Dropshield, Evade, ETC are ALL possible in the halo 1 multiplayer engine. Ive seen it done, WITHOUT the custom edition tools, but with fan made software. Go to www.macgamingmods.com/forum if interested. The halo 1 graphics are better then most think, its very possible to make the game look PHENOMENAL simply by adding new skins and light maps. the Best part is it's already halo.
I "think" the engine doesn't even have normal map support. Am I wrong?

Seriously...I know Halo: CE has a large modding community, but I have never understood why. The engine was already pretty outdated when it came out on PC as it was....and now....with the Unreal 3 engine going free and opensource and other available engines like source and/or crytek, modding the original Halo is completely pointless.

Garland said:
...and the modeling, texturing, and level construction will also be fairly easy.
:confused
Unless you're going to reuse old assets (again, would kind of defeat the purpose of making the game), what makes you think that stuff is easy?
 

SchizophrenicMC

Well-Known Member
Unless your'e going to reuse old assets (again, would kind of defeat the purpose of making the game), what makes you think that stuff is easy?
Because the concepts are already in place, and all that needs to be done is the actual modeling, which takes little time for someone skilled at it. (I know we got skilled modelers here) It's definitely easy compared to the physics tweaking.

Why does Halo CE have such a big community? It's DAMN easy to work with, and it's Halo, after all. Source, Crytek, and Unreal, all may be better engines, and may be open-source, but they haven't been around as long as Halo CE, nor have they been as intuitive. (Plus, the whole Half-Life graphics and control scheme being kinda eh for console shooter fans) That being said, I don't think CE is the solution to a problem like this, and it IS obsolete. (But then, so is Source, by much logic)
 

Garland

Member
Sepharih said:
Unless you're going to reuse old assets (again, would kind of defeat the purpose of making the game), what makes you think that stuff is easy?
Because it is, especially when you compare it to rigging the models to animation skeletons, the coding for the physics, the AI planning, creating the special effects (explosions, etc.). I'm decent at modeling, but even the simplest of animations are way beyond me. I've done a tiny bit of texturing work, which once you get the hang of it is really just being good with photoshop. Level design? That's a piece of cake, especially considering nearly everything we'd be doing is just recreating what's in Halo CE, which cuts out a lot of trial and error with regards to flow, playthrough, layout, etcetera. I made a number of levels from scratch for Star Wars Battlefront, and they turned out ok. I didn't even bother with laying out pathways for the AI to follow, and it still had excellent gameplay (granted, this project will be a bit different, but I'm giving you an example from my own experience).

Some people have mentioned projects about adding armour abilities and DMRs to Halo CE, and while interesting, that's the opposite direction that I thought we were heading. The goal is to remake Halo CE using a better engine and updated graphics, correct?

Again, I say we set out some goals if this project has any hope of reality. Are we just making a fancy HD recreation of Halo CE, or are we actually going to try and incorporate some aspects from Reach into the game?
 

Sepharih

Jr Member
Because it is, especially when you compare it to rigging the models to animation skeletons, the coding for the physics, the AI planning, creating the special effects (explosions, etc.). I'm decent at modeling, but even the simplest of animations are way beyond me.
Oh I see, easy by comparison. Most of that stuff really isn't as hard as you think, or rather not harder than making a super awesome looking and effecient game model. You just have to have some kind of experience in doing it. I work as a technical artist in game development and I've spent the last month or so doing nothing but rigging for videogames, and i've dabled in particle effects as well. Scripting I don't know much about, but as someone who works with coders on a regular basis, it's not really so much “harder” as it is a different area of your brain. You can find people if you put the word out and put some groundwork into it.



]Again, I say we set out some goals if this project has any hope of reality. Are we just making a fancy HD recreation of Halo CE, or are we actually going to try and incorporate some aspects from Reach into the game?
Since you're basically building from scratch, I'd go the whole 10 yard and update the gameplay as well since you have to rebuild it anyway. In fact, if the goal is to recreate the awesome single player experience and not a balanced multiplayer...go one further and bring back other things like dual wielding.
That said, I personally wouldn't put in Brutes.



Why does Halo CE have such a big community? It's DAMN easy to work with, and it's Halo, after all. Source, Crytek, and Unreal, all may be better engines, and may be open-source, but they haven't been around as long as Halo CE, nor have they been as intuitive. (Plus, the whole Half-Life graphics and control scheme being kinda eh for console shooter fans) That being said, I don't think CE is the solution to a problem like this, and it IS obsolete. (But then, so is Source, by much logic)
Alright, I've never really worked with CE so I can't speak to how much easier it is to develop for, but both source and Unreal 3 have extremely large development communities and have extensive online resources and tutorials both from third party sources, and from the original developers.
 

Garland

Member
Good points, Sepharih. I guess my experiences don't apply to everyone; when I said modeling and level design were easy, I was speaking from my viewpoint, since I basically taught myself most of that and became decent at it, and was unable to just "pick up" the other aspects. I'm sure there are people that are naturally good at coding physics and AI pathways, and are unable to model a base or texture an armoured trooper. Like you said, it's not that it's harder, it's just different (something I should really keep in mind. . .).

And a technical artist in game development? See, I knew the 405th would have some members with some relevant experience.

As for the proposed engines (Source, Unreal, CryTek), does anybody here have any experience working with these? Any advice somebody has as to which one would be best? Does it matter?
 

SchizophrenicMC

Well-Known Member
I'll just say, having dabbled in CE and Source, I prefer Source, for its open-source engine, but I like how easy it was to use HEK to change up CE. I haven't touched CryTek or Unreal, but they're pretty solid engines, with great capabilities, so if anyone knows them, I wouldn't say no. (And, a book is nothing compared to experience, as far as the analogy goes. While I acknowledge the fact that Source and Unreal have large modding communities, I also say they're more skilled in Source modding, than anything, while we're more skilled at making armor, than anything)

As you said, it's not hard if you know it, but the problem does go back to no one knowing it. Of course, if we can gather people who know it or can learn it, we'd have a dev team on our hands. Probably best we don't bring it up on some modding board, though, for the flame war would rival Halo's fire.
 

PhantomSG13

Jr Member
call me old fashioned, but I like the eclectic look of Halo CE. It's a little square, it's a little bright and flat with color, and that's just fine because it was the base for the rest. After all, when they come out with Halo: Onyx or Halo: The Next Generation we'll look at Reach's graphic like they were crud. Let's enjoy the past for what it was and look forward to what the next creation will be
 

InsaneDDay69

New Member
Would it be cool, heck yeah. Should it be done, I don't think so. Halo CE was a revolutionary game for it's time, and most every classic that's been remade was a fail. I would hate to see the same happen again.
 

Evergrace

New Member
The only way this would work, and work well, is if all they did was port the code into the new engine. Possibly include live co-op, but no, I mean absolutely NO online Multiplayer. Why you ask? It would destroy the Halo MP community, think about it, if ODST would have had a MP ability, then Reach's MP probably would not have taken as well as it did. There's a reason they have a good 2+ year lul between MP games.
 

Purrie

Member
There's a rumor going around that remaking CE might be 343's first project (I don't know if that's been posted) forgot the source site, but if I find it I'll post the link!
 

Boba Fett

Well-Known Member
WHA! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! NOT THEM!!!!!! Bungie will do it right... 343 on the other hand... it will be either uber-epic, or suck so hard...
 
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