Medic!

[Xtreme TACTICS 101]

Regardless, I don't think the Covenant would give a damn about a medic. Its a human, and humans are humans, so open fire on the medic, regardless if the medic has a weapon or not.



But, the only differance about an ODST medic and a regular ODST is there would be a white/red stripe on the top of his/her helmet, his/her chest piece would be red/white, and there would be a medic sign on his/her should plate(s) and chest plate aswell. The colour of the armour would remain the same.

 

[Trooper Cooper]

Also, with regards to the LOAC, it is more than acceptible for medics to carry arms and indeed fire them. While America does not like to do so, the Geneva Convention and all those related afterward promote the issue of weapons for the defence of casualties, themselves and their field hospitals.



Having medic markings would be an important visual cue for knowing where your medic is - I doubt the Covenant will care about selective targeting.

 

[bigolaf]

I believe that the nature of most ODST squads (reconnaissance/direct action) would limit the markings denoting position and rank in order on armor to confuse the enemy

and keep them from targeting specific personnel, such as officers. if they did have unit markings, rank insignia, or individual modifications, they would be subdued

in colors close to the armor color.

in fact, in the game Halo 3: ODST and the ad "We Are ODST" the stripes visible on helmets, and colors visible on chestplates

seemed to be a little desaturated, or subdued, which would allow for

the ODST to personalize their armor, but without any negative effects in the field.



while i think it'd be awesome to have a field medic in a large direct action squad, a bright red cross on the shoulder or helmet could undermine the purpose of the ODST

armor, which is to reduce the visibility profile of the ODST. Perhaps a subdued cross could be used.

I love the concept, and i can't wait to see what you do with it.

 

[Trooper Cooper]

I believe that the nature of most ODST squads (reconnaissance/direct action) would limit the markings denoting position and rank in order on armor to confuse the enemy

and keep them from targeting specific personnel, such as officers. if they did have unit markings, rank insignia, or individual modifications, they would be subdued

in colors close to the armor color.

in fact, in the game Halo 3: ODST and the ad "We Are ODST" the stripes visible on helmets, and colors visible on chestplates

seemed to be a little desaturated, or subdued, which would allow for

the ODST to personalize their armor, but without any negative effects in the field.



while i think it'd be awesome to have a field medic in a large direct action squad, a bright red cross on the shoulder or helmet could undermine the purpose of the ODST

armor, which is to reduce the visibility profile of the ODST. Perhaps a subdued cross could be used.

I love the concept, and i can't wait to see what you do with it.

In WAODST there were blue, red and yellow chest and helmet markings, as well as the standard white flashes. None of it was subdued - the stuff was just beaten to hell, covered in dirt then run through colour filters.



Standard "combat" logic should be discarded for the most part in Halo. If ODSTs were trying to hide themselves they would not have bright white flashes all over their uniform and big white ID sections on their shoulders giving name, rank, blood type, bar codes with all manner of personal data. If not a red cross on the helmet then a small red cross on a white strip on the arms or whatever.

 

[Tafumi]

Also, with regards to the LOAC, it is more than acceptible for medics to carry arms and indeed fire them. While America does not like to do so, the Geneva Convention and all those related afterward promote the issue of weapons for the defence of casualties, themselves and their field hospitals.



Having medic markings would be an important visual cue for knowing where your medic is - I doubt the Covenant will care about selective targeting.

I think I didn't clarify well enough a rather moot point I was making given the context. I was speaking more towards protected status' that LOAC grants to medical personnel. Yes, medical personnel can (and do often) carry weapons to protect themselves and/or the wounded they treat. There is nothing that prevents that. However, LOAC grants them protective status (if the enemy recognizes that or not is a different story) provided they are not carrying a weapon. The moment they have a weapon in hand, they become a combatant. And LOAC only covers light weapons. M-16/M-4 or M-9 and the like. A surgeon hulking around with an M-60 is a bit overkill. Even if a surgeon is carrying around an M-9 in his holster (which many officers do during war) they are technically cited as a combatant. They are armed. For the most part at least.



There are some special revisions to LOAC (depending on branch of service or special assignment) which can bend the rules. You're capable of carrying a holstered weapon in defense and still be cited as a non-combatant if your applicable LOAC allows it - and it is extremely rare that this exception is made. But the moment that weapon comes out of the holster, regardless of who or what you are or what you are doing, you automatically become a combatant and can be fired upon. And only medical personnel specifically billeted for defense can carry a weapon to begin with. 99.9% of the time you won't see a doctor or nurse carrying a weapon. You'll see security personnel protecting them. Or you will see doctors and nurses who have been augmented to serve the security role.



As far as LOAC goes, they try to do as little blurring of lines as possible. Especially for medical personnel because not everyone out there in the field is military. The Red Cross quite often deploys civilian personnel to assist in the field and they don't want their civilians getting shot. So clear cut rules of who is and is not a combatant.



That was how it was explained to me by the base legal office. Of course, all of this is moot. As both of us said... the Covenant don't care who you are or what laws protect you. You're human and as such, you're dead meat. I started off trying to apply modern day war laws to a futuristic battlefront against aliens. Not exactly smart on my part~



I suppose I should just drop this part of the discussion and get back on point~ :lol

 

[Trooper Cooper]

I think I didn't clarify well enough a rather moot point I was making given the context. I was speaking more towards protected status' that LOAC grants to medical personnel. Yes, medical personnel can (and do often) carry weapons to protect themselves and/or the wounded they treat. There is nothing that prevents that. However, LOAC grants them protective status (if the enemy recognizes that or not is a different story) provided they are not carrying a weapon. The moment they have a weapon in hand, they become a combatant. And LOAC only covers light weapons. M-16/M-4 or M-9 and the like. A surgeon hulking around with an M-60 is a bit overkill. Even if a surgeon is carrying around an M-9 in his holster (which many officers do during war) they are technically cited as a combatant. They are armed. For the most part at least.



There are some special revisions to LOAC (depending on branch of service or special assignment) which can bend the rules. You're capable of carrying a holstered weapon in defense and still be cited as a non-combatant if your applicable LOAC allows it - and it is extremely rare that this exception is made. But the moment that weapon comes out of the holster, regardless of who or what you are or what you are doing, you automatically become a combatant and can be fired upon. And only medical personnel specifically billeted for defense can carry a weapon to begin with. 99.9% of the time you won't see a doctor or nurse carrying a weapon. You'll see security personnel protecting them. Or you will see doctors and nurses who have been augmented to serve the security role.



As far as LOAC goes, they try to do as little blurring of lines as possible. Especially for medical personnel because not everyone out there in the field is military. The Red Cross quite often deploys civilian personnel to assist in the field and they don't want their civilians getting shot. So clear cut rules of who is and is not a combatant.



That was how it was explained to me by the base legal office. Of course, all of this is moot. As both of us said... the Covenant don't care who you are or what laws protect you. You're human and as such, you're dead meat. I started off trying to apply modern day war laws to a futuristic battlefront against aliens. Not exactly smart on my part~



I suppose I should just drop this part of the discussion and get back on point~ :lol

I was actually trying to contrast that point with the fact that in many armed forces outside of the US, medics are regarded as non-combattants regardless of whether they're armed or not - however, their arms are purely for self-defence, which of course leads to issues regarding ROEs later down the line. It's a perception issue of international military law - different readings of military treaties resulting in very different military doctrines.



No real dispute, just contrasting examples.

 

[agumathebear]

one of my friends in afghanistan (hes in army) right now says he's met a combat medic but he didn't really have any symbols or anything, just looked like everyone else. but either way, even if the red cross would give it away, i was gonna put a medium sized heart on the side of the helmet anyway lol, when i make characters either in video games or costumes or whatever i usually give it a heart with a lightning bolt and call it heart attack because i've actually had 2 heart attacks and im only 19 lol, i have something called "SVT", super ventricial(?) tacnicardia(?), but i've just recently had sergary for it but then i was diagnosed with high blood pressure lol, so there will be a big red heart somewhere on the outfit. besides, if i were covenant, out of all the odsts, id probably shoot the ones with lights on their heads (just because it catches my attention) or the ones with colors that stand out, like yellow or red. not saying im an expert on covenant or halo lol, just saying what i would do and what i usually do on xbox live lol.

 

[SPARTAN II]

A medic, huh? Sounds like a good idea. Would be a little different from what everyone else does around here.



Though a marine medic would look pretty much like a standard marine, perhaps you could add the typical red-cross-in-white-circle medic emblem to set it apart? Placed on the shoulder armour?



Or, maybe you could redesign the globe on the standard UNSC logo to incorporate the afore-mentioned medic emblem? Placed on the chest armour? Then alter the "UNSCDF" to read "UNSCMC". I know "MC" typically stands for "Marine Corps", but in this case the "MC" could stand for "Medic Corps".



You could even do a combination of the two, having the standard medic emblem on the shoulders and the revised UNSCMC logo on the chest plate.



That'd be my suggestion, even if it's not what is shown on modern-day medics.

 

[UNSC Leatherneck]

I'd also like to point out that the corpsman (medics) in the UNSC are not marines, they're navy. This is much like the modern USMC that does not train medical personell and instead uses nacy corpsman. An example is Petty Officer Third Class Coney (HM3 R. Coney) from the Landfall short. Although she did have the crosses on her armor. (I never did like the crosses, though.) What it comes down to, though, is make your armor how you want to make it. I think personalized armor is very cool.

 

[bigolaf]

In WAODST there were blue, red and yellow chest and helmet markings, as well as the standard white flashes. None of it was subdued - the stuff was just beaten to hell, covered in dirt then run through colour filters.



Standard "combat" logic should be discarded for the most part in Halo. If ODSTs were trying to hide themselves they would not have bright white flashes all over their uniform and big white ID sections on their shoulders giving name, rank, blood type, bar codes with all manner of personal data. If not a red cross on the helmet then a small red cross on a white strip on the arms or whatever.

i beg to differ on the stripes and flashes, in that they were desaturated in appearance, and it was intentional (despite the color correction in post production). Normal colors would be completely out of place, but those colors used have a tinted look about them, without the dirt and weathering seen in the actual film. you can see the original colors in the making of doc for We Are ODST.



In the actual UNSC Special Warfare, Armor personalization would probably be limited,

despite the recent evidence to the contrary, ie We Are ODST, Halo 3: ODST and the Helljumpers comics. Its probably a wonderful way to tell the difference between characters in the game,

and be flashy to the casual player/observer, but it is not practical. In fact, in Halo 3 (further along the halo timeline) ODSTs only had small flashes on their shoulder pads, and no

insignia, markings, or names on their armor. while you can explain that away as "poor foresight on the designer's part", it is considered canon, and certainly more commonplace than the

ODST armors found in Halo 3: ODST, as there were only 5 squad members in that game and there were numerous encounters with ODSTs in Halo 3.



And certainly in the books (if not in the games), information on soldiers and odsts shows up on their in-helmet HUDs, including regular marine helmets (Halo:CE), thus rendering the names and insignia on the armors useless. the medical information on their shoulder pads in We Are ODST, Landfall, and Halo 3: ODST is certainly useful, and not as visible in the field (or at least the game) as a helmet marking would be, and might be necessary for non-combatant medical personell without HUDs to treat the soldiers without asking them for their medical history.

In Landfall (again, further along in the Halo Timeline than We Are ODST and Halo 3: ODST) there were no flashes of color indicating personalization on the ODSTs armor, only the med info on their shoulder pads, and UNSC logos on the main chestplate.



It would be assuming a lot to say that all ODSTs have flashy stripes and personalization on their armor, or markings in general. unless something comes out from bungie/affiliates that is considered canon, it would be safe to assume that their military doctrine would be pretty close to current militaries and their codes. which means that in a combat zone, having kickass stripes might be a detriment not only to their personal safety, but also to the morale and cohesiveness of their squad. non-regulation uniforms could get you a reprimand.



...though, i assume that some squads, like the one in Halo 3: ODST, could be granted a little leeway due to their hodgepodge, highly conspicuous actions in the game....they weren't exactly trying to be subtle.

and those colors are loud enough, to say nothing of their outbursts of dialogue.

 

[Trooper Cooper]

i beg to differ on the stripes and flashes, in that they were desaturated in appearance, and it was intentional (despite the color correction in post production). Normal colors would be completely out of place, but those colors used have a tinted look about them, without the dirt and weathering seen in the actual film. you can see the original colors in the making of doc for We Are ODST.



In the actual UNSC Special Warfare, Armor personalization would probably be limited,

despite the recent evidence to the contrary, ie We Are ODST, Halo 3: ODST and the Helljumpers comics. Its probably a wonderful way to tell the difference between characters in the game,

and be flashy to the casual player/observer, but it is not practical. In fact, in Halo 3 (further along the halo timeline) ODSTs only had small flashes on their shoulder pads, and no

insignia, markings, or names on their armor. while you can explain that away as "poor foresight on the designer's part", it is considered canon, and certainly more commonplace than the

ODST armors found in Halo 3: ODST, as there were only 5 squad members in that game and there were numerous encounters with ODSTs in Halo 3.



And certainly in the books (if not in the games), information on soldiers and odsts shows up on their in-helmet HUDs, including regular marine helmets (Halo:CE), thus rendering the names and insignia on the armors useless. the medical information on their shoulder pads in We Are ODST, Landfall, and Halo 3: ODST is certainly useful, and not as visible in the field (or at least the game) as a helmet marking would be, and might be necessary for non-combatant medical personell without HUDs to treat the soldiers without asking them for their medical history.

In Landfall (again, further along in the Halo Timeline than We Are ODST and Halo 3: ODST) there were no flashes of color indicating personalization on the ODSTs armor, only the med info on their shoulder pads, and UNSC logos on the main chestplate.



It would be assuming a lot to say that all ODSTs have flashy stripes and personalization on their armor, or markings in general. unless something comes out from bungie/affiliates that is considered canon, it would be safe to assume that their military doctrine would be pretty close to current militaries and their codes. which means that in a combat zone, having kickass stripes might be a detriment not only to their personal safety, but also to the morale and cohesiveness of their squad. non-regulation uniforms could get you a reprimand.



...though, i assume that some squads, like the one in Halo 3: ODST, could be granted a little leeway due to their hodgepodge, highly conspicuous actions in the game....they weren't exactly trying to be subtle.

and those colors are loud enough, to say nothing of their outbursts of dialogue.

I wrote a long reply in retort but kind of lost the will to live by the final paragraph. The basic point was that the games and other media show plenty of flashiness and as such we can therefore assume that flashiness is regarded as at least in part acceptible - should you wish to embelish upon the rather basic canon that's fine (such as very 'spartan' uniform decoration and markings moreso than the standard Halo 3 ODST, and uniform regulations), but bear in mind there's so much evidence that the guy who started this thread can pretty much do as he pleases.

 

[UNSC Leatherneck]

Personnel within the special operations community often have quite a bit of leeway in what equipment they use. Different units and different operators will often have wildly varying loadouts. Exceptions occur when operators are attached to conventional units. For example, USAF personnel attached to Army units wear Army uniforms with Air Force markings while in the field. Looking different than everyone else gets you shot. When operators are working on their own they tend to wear just about anything. You'll see multicam, woodland, and everything in between. You'll see nonstandard markings and patches, on occasion. This is in the real world, currently. I use this as an example because it shows just how much diversity you can find. The UNSCDF is a BIG organization, with personnel spread out across the galaxy. You have garrison troops from New Mombassa, Spartans in Mjolnir, and ODST's. Some of the ODST's regularly operate with conventional marine forces. Others operate more independantly. Each unit has its own take on things. A lot of it would be at the whim of the commanding officer. If we take everything we have available as canon: Halo 3, Landfall, We Are ODST, as we have been doing, you have a picture of a vast military force that has been fighting a twenty-year war, a force that shows variation in equipment, weapons, and markings. For the costumer, this is great. It gives us the ability to tailor our work to whatever tastes we may have, tastes that run the gamut from the clean Halo 3 ODST's, to the colorful, dirty, beat up ODST's found in We Are ODST, and everything in between. That gives me an idea. Look for an article on armor variations of ODST's sometime in the near future on the 405th Source.

 

[bigolaf]

...but bear in mind there's so much evidence that the guy who started this thread can pretty much do as he pleases.

...true. i'm sorry.



I can't wait to see it though! it will be awesome.

 

[agumathebear]

im of course gonna start out with halo 1 marine, then halo 3 marine before i start, i am new to ths and i dont want to jump right in lol!

 

[Artek]

on the same topic, there are markings on the rears of the current canon helms and on the side, what do they all mean?



im asking because my GF wants a Medic as well (cliche i know)