Moulded Kevlar

Status
Not open for further replies.
009-SPA said:
If you like, I can spell out my project plans without trying to be patronising:



  1. Construct all the parts of the suit using the normal Pepakura process, right up to priming.
  2. Mould all of the parts using either fibreglass or a moudling plastic.
  3. Cast all the parts by using about three steps to get the finished suits:
    • Brush or spray on pigmented gelcoat (outer surface of the armour)
    • Use fibreglass cloth or tissue to get all the details filled in, and patch up larger gaps with fibreglass cloth
    • Lay up the inner layer of Kevlar, using epoxy resin



I hope that makes things perfectly clear.



So I'm glad you answered that. the question now is "Why?" That's pretty much how commercial helmets are made so it's completely do-able.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
009-SPA said:
It's glued on afterwards to provide extra strength.



Come on, are you just trolling?



Your armor layrers would be...



-----------------

Gel Coat

-----------------

Fiberglass

-----------------

Casting Plastic

-----------------

Fiberglass

-----------------

Kevlar

-----------------

Aluminum

-----------------



This is too absurd to be real.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Please be aware a single layer (it's called a "ply") of kevlar won't provide much strength. All composite layup, regarless of material, use many plys to give the final product it's structural properties. Marine or aviation products can take thousands of plys.
 
There's no casting plastic in the final piece, but I may use it instead of fibreglass to make the mould, as it were, the negative. Also, I only plan on putting aluminium on in certain places, not everywhere. I just don't understand why you think it's absurd.
 
So what is the reason you are making this armour? You kinda keep dodging that question by simply ignoring it...
 
Well, best of luck to you. Please post a WIP as I know many of us will be really interested in this build.
 
009-SPA said:
There's no casting plastic in the final piece, but I may use it instead of fibreglass to make the mould, as it were, the negative. Also, I only plan on putting aluminium on in certain places, not everywhere. I just don't understand why you think it's absurd.



Have you ever tried making rigid molds? It's not impossible, but on complex pieces (like all of this armor is) with many undercuts and concavities, it requires very complex and time consuming multi-part molds. You can do ALL that... or just use silicone mold rubber and be done in one quick shot. Rigid molds are certainly an option, but will be difficult for these uses.



The reason I think you're just trolling is that this is just about the most extreme way to build this armor that you could possibly dream up, and with no goal given. You also claim to have it all researched, and planned out, then have made a lot of wild claims and indecisive points. If we wanted to joke around and be funny, and asked someone to outline the most absurd way to make armor possible, it would probably go something like...



"First I'll make one by cutting and folding paper for many hours, followed by lots of Bondo and sanding, then I'm going to make a mold in one of the most complex and difficult ways that you can make a mold and using atypical materials, then I'm going to cast it in plastic or fiberglass (probably the fiberglass, because it will be more difficult that way), then I'm going to take it and add more detail with fiberglass which should be extra difficult, then I'm going to add layers of some crazy expensive materials for absolutely no good reason at all, let's choose KEVLAR (YEAH!), then just in case this wasn't enough how about we glue on some titanium or aluminum (I say titanium since "cost is no option") just to make sure it's really insane."



Yeah, that is pretty much exactly the same thing as all the stuff you've posted.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
AceHigh said:
So what is the reason you are making this armour? You kinda keep dodging that question by simply ignoring it...
A very impressive project to show to potential universities, as well as general recreational use. That's why I'm making five, so that I and four friends can like... do stuff in them.



Edit: In all seriousness Awesomeness, how would you suggest doing it?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Years ago I had a VW Kharmann Ghia. The floor boards where rusted out pretty bad.. and my pops had roll of kevlar laying around so we kevlared the bottom of the car. It came out well and definitely made the car more rigid, especially because it was a convertible. Anymore stronger then fiberglass? who knows.

I recently though about building some armor out of kevlar or carbon fiber. You can lay up carbon just like fiberglass and get a stronger product for sure it will take a lot of punishment. One thing that carbon has over fiberglass is shrinkage. Carbon shrinks less then fiberglass. Another is you can go thinner (and therefore lighter) and have it just as strong as fiber glass.

Ultimately the best way to make it stronger then fiber glass is if you vacuum bag or balloon/bladder the casts. This means making the molds out of aluminum to take the pressure of vacuum/ballooning. Therefore you can say for sure that there are no air bubbles trapped in the casting that will make it crack, if its taking that much abuse (like repeated paintball/airsoft shots to the head).



Hope this helps!



Jay
 
009-SPA said:
A very impressive project to show to potential universities, as well as general recreational use. That's why I'm making five, so that I and four friends can like... do stuff in them.



Edit: In all seriousness Awesomeness, how would you suggest doing it?



Wow, you trumped me again. Now you're building FIVE! Well played, sir.



I still think you're just trolling, but if I had to make an honest suggestion...



Start with a GOAL. Are you an artist wanting to demonstrate your artistic skills? Are you wanting to demonstrate your engineering skills? Do you want to make paintball armor? Figure out WHAT you are trying to accomplish.



After you know your goal, figure out what you could best do to achieve that goal. What you described was serious overkill, would have cost thousands of dollars, would have been very heavy to wear, and would have been approaching the type of strength necessary to stop small caliber bullets (keep in mind that the gaps don't stop bullets, so don't try this). If your goal is artistic, you can make it look very good regardless of the material used (cast, fiberglass, kevlar, etc.). If you're looking to stop paintballs, cast armor will do that already with no fiberglass, kevlar, or titanium involved.



You also need to figure out what a real budget for this project is. There's almost no such thing as "cost is no option", especially for most of our younger members like yourself. I can tell you from experience, even while trying to be thrifty, the cost of this hobby adds up quick.



If you would seriously like honest help developing design goals, and planning your project, PM me and I will be happy to help.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Seriously, what's your problem? I understand you're trying to help, but you don't have to call me absurd for wanting to use a standard industrial process.
 
Could you tell us more? What are some of the things you want to demonstrate or show off with your armor? What kind of drawings, mock ups, plans, etc. have you made so far, and can you show us? What kind of budget are you under, even if it's being paid for by others; can you tell us about where you plan to spend what money? What is the purpose of each part of the armor (i.e. what made you think you needed to put titanium plates in it)?



PM me if you want, and I'll help you with it.
 
Ok, lemme throw you a bone. So you are looking to build the coolest armor (in your opinion) you can. Fair enough I think everyone on this site is trying to do just that. You and your buds got some bank and can afford to spend a few thou each on these, that's respectable. You decide to use Kevlar and Alum.



Bulid it this way:



1) Make your master and your mothermold per the info on this site. Don't change a thing, we know by the great stuff members here make it works.

2) With your mothermold spray (it will come out better) in your Gelcoat or you can coat with resin too. Keep it thin, this is just a cosmetic layer.. really thin layer. Let it start to flash (get tacky)

3) Place your aluminum reinforcements in their respective areas on the gelcoat. You want to encase them into the rest of the layup not just glue them on the surface.

4) Pre-impregnate your matt with resin. Pour some on it and roll it in. make sure you have good coverage (no dry spots) Get a friend to help, one person preps the matt while the other is laying it in the mold.

5) Start laying in your ply to build up the inner surface to the thickness you want. You can pot in your aluminum with some thickened resin. Try and roll out any air bubbles (hard to do on this shape) don't leave any voids. You can add some resin if need be but keep it to a minimum. Only to fill the airspaces in the matt.



Just an aside, you will need to figure out beforehand the shape of your plys. They will need to be cut to fit the shape of the interior of the parts. It will take many parts to do one complete layer. I'd use some inexpensive material to play with untill you get a final design, don't waste Kevlar on this. Make sure your material templates cover the entire inside surface of the part. REMEMBER; as you build up the interior surface the parts will get smaller!



6) After that it's pretty much let it cure and demold.



This will get you a basic composite layup for your parts. If you're careful it will come out well. Go get a book on fiberglass repair & fabrication. It will give you all the basics you need to know. The process is the same whether you want to use Kevlar or fiberglass. Here's a vid I found. Not the best but you get the idea.



http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ZXkR94AQjFM



DO NOT try and use this for paintball, airsoft, BB gun fights as it will not work, not even with the Kevlar. Run around with your buddies, go to Cons, make Youtube videos but don't try and use it in any kind of protective capacity short of a snowball or waterballoon fight. You'll end up hurt or worse.
 
You know, i have no idea why everyone seems to be (hence the 'seems to be') bagging this guy out just cuz he wants to make a kick-ass suit of armour. Cuz' for the SAKE OF F'ING GOD!!! it's not as hard as some of you make it sound, here's the facts:



1. It's an awesome idea, and someone SHOULD DO IT! (b4 me and you'll get street cred, hahaha)



2. If Level III/A or above type kevlar is used, then the suit will be BULLET RESISTANT up to a 5.56mm (.223cal), howeverm you'll need enough layers to bring it up to 1cm or perhaps 8mm thick.



3. Coupled with impact resisting foam, you'll then have a working suit of real-life (persay) Mk VI armour (by which many people will cream their pants after seeing it).



4. Add a whole array of features and you could sell it to a collector for probs over $10,000, or more!





I say GO FOR IT and do the best possible job you can, and it might not seem much, but you'll definately have my utmost respect!







Cheers! :p
 
don't feed the trolls 009-SPA, they like it when people fight back, best way is to ignore them! i love your idea and i think it's awesome, don't quit!



IMG_0314.jpg
 
I'm a troll, ya right. Just because I've been working with composites for 20 years and am trying to stop someone from doing something dangerous and unnecessary.



Whatever.
 
KevlarSpartan said:
You know, i have no idea why everyone seems to be (hence the 'seems to be') bagging this guy out just cuz he wants to make a kick-ass suit of armour. Cuz' for the SAKE OF F'ING GOD!!! it's not as hard as some of you make it sound, here's the facts:



1. It's an awesome idea, and someone SHOULD DO IT! (b4 me and you'll get street cred, hahaha)



2. If Level III/A or above type kevlar is used, then the suit will be BULLET RESISTANT up to a 5.56mm (.223cal), howeverm you'll need enough layers to bring it up to 1cm or perhaps 8mm thick.



3. Coupled with impact resisting foam, you'll then have a working suit of real-life (persay) Mk VI armour (by which many people will cream their pants after seeing it).



4. Add a whole array of features and you could sell it to a collector for probs over $10,000, or more!





I say GO FOR IT and do the best possible job you can, and it might not seem much, but you'll definately have my utmost respect!







Cheers! :p



This has to be quite possibly the most unsafe statement I've seen on these forums. Kevlar, and other soft armor will not stop rifle rounds of any kind. 5.56mm bullets will go through the front side of the guy's armor, his body, the back side of his armor, the car behind him, then through the next guy and his armor. Soft armor will only stop large, slow, round-nosed ammo, like pistol and shotgun rounds, and you will often still break bones or rupture organs and require medical attention. I know this for a fact (now think real hard about what that means, if I know it for a fact). This isn't TV, and bullets, especially rifle bullets, go through a lot of stuff... walls don't protect you, brick walls don't protect you, cars don't protect you (except axles and engine blocks), steel doors don't protect you... and pretty much no armor you could afford to make is going to protect you. DON'T EVEN CONSIDER TRYING IT.



EDIT: I found you a good video... (M16s, M4s and M249s shoots 5.56mm. AK-47s, and M240s shoot 7.62mm.)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lprGoEpDXJQ&NR=1[/media]

It sucks because most of the US's enemies are using AK-47s, and it's a pain to gain cover from.



Consider the genius of this stunt too...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq93T8ZhI2U[/media]

This guy still thinks it's a good idea, even after he got shot. So maybe there's just no reaching some people.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
incase you havn't noticed. critiscizing is BAN from this forum, that critisism better be yourself. i will notify an ADMAN if this flame war continues.





you all have been warned.



trollribdposter.png
 
Project003 said:
incase you havn't noticed. critiscizing is BAN from this forum, that critisism better be yourself. i will notify an ADMAN if this flame war continues.





you all have been warned.



Actually, criticism is allowed if one offers good reasons why or improvement on ideas. So far Awesomeness and MrToad have offered quite a lot of knowledge and ideas, even though they don't really think it's a good idea to build the armour.



If you do know your rules, you should also be aware that it is against forum policies to construct "impact resistant armour" as well, so this thread should probably be locked and deleted. Problem solved.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top