Soft Parts Undersuit Realism

[DesertFare]

Okay, while i was chillin in my bed i had a revelation. So whenever people make a cool suit that isnt fully armored with exposed undersuit pieces, Hence spartan armor, They usally have an undersuit to go with it. im not baggin any suit builders but ive noticed some people have alot of wiggle room between them and their armor, And to look more realistic ive come up with an idea. instaed of making a full undersuit, just make it where it needs to be and create a seal between the armor and undersuit.

[attachment=14591lates2.jpg]

the gold is a locking button, the black is an undersuit peice, and the green is two armor pieces. If you would like to hate on, comment, or expand on this idea feel free to. Also not sure ifanyone else has tried and made a topic, i usd the search bar.

 

[Drgnfyre4]

for both my iron man and my Halo gear I am making latex parts for the gaps. Not all that dissimilar to the rubber joint parts on a gundam model.

 

[Carpathia]

Not a bad idea, but in some places (namely the waist) you'd be restricting the movement a bit. For example, if you were to attach a section of undersuit from the upper torso piece of a MKVI to its waist piece, then try to twist at the waist, you'd be a little restricted (unless the undersuit had the ability to stretch). Granted you probably wouldn't be twisting all that much anyway, and as for the legs and arms, this would probably work great. Interesting concept.

 

[billybong87]

This concept sounds a-lot like what Bluerealm did with the undersuit.

 

[Drgnfyre4]

trust me on this...it works...been a predator and batman costumer for YEARS, so I know material tolerances for latex, and urethane and where to apply them for flex and movement on an undersuit. you leave your armor free floating so it can move over the surface of the rubber parts mounted to the lycra undersuit. And yes its what Bluerealm did and what a fw other guys are doing with casting latex undersuit parts.

 

[CPU64]

That is kinda what I did with mine as well. But of course, not as detailed since at that time I had barely any [decent] reference to work with.

 

[DesertFare]

what i mean is not a rigid undersuit piece but as previously advertised a latex one

 

[AceHigh]

I like the concept of attaching the undersuit to the armour itself. Of course it can't be done in all parts of the suit, but it would help a great deal with realism as said. Great armours are in my eyes reduced to good armours when you see a side shot of the finished piece and there's an inch wide gap between the person's chest and the chest armour where you can see all the way across to the other side.



Yes, I know I'm a noob and probably shouldn't say anything, but I'm a perfectionist as well. When I get around to making a Mjolnir armour for myself (first project will be on the other side of the pond...) I hope to be able to give attention to all the little details. It's the small details that makes good armours great.

 

[GremlinLord]

When done right latex can have that "magical" sheen that apparently everywhere in the halo universe (limit of dx9 shaders). Another thing most professionals will do when making a suit that needs to fit an actor perfectly is use an muscle suit. They allow you to scale the armor to the correct dimensions and still look good in them and give a real look of muscle instead of a blocky thick undersuit. I personal am built like a tank but I'm short at 5'3" so no amount of suit will make me look for than a munchkin Spartan. However 3 inch risers in my boots gets me into the "normal" ODST/Marine size. BFX (great show) on Indy Mogul has a great how to make an muscle suit for real cheap but they did... erm hulk out a lil bit.





Edit: http://blip.tv/file/997118?utm_source=episodepg_featured&utm_medium=episodepg_featured

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well, the thing is, you'll have to be wearing something underneath your armor, anyway, so you may as well just wear an undersuit. Also, it promotes accuracy. I'm making an ODST, right? So, my plan is to use Sean Bradley's design. It's accurate, comfortable, and relatively cheap.



With Spartans, it's a bit more complicated. First off, there's more large armor, which will inhibit movement. Why make it worse, with parts connected to each other? You can retain motion by making your connector as long as your maximum extension, but then it'll fold over itself when you're anywhere less than that. You can make it look good by making it as long as your relaxed pose, but then you'll lack extension, and it'll still fold over when you bend backwards. Looking at the McFarlane toys, I'd say it's probably best to wear something tight-fitting, then make an accurate suit, then slap your armor on over that.



Unless, of course, there's a material I'm not thinking of that doesn't hold too tight to wear something underneath it, and stretches enough to allow full motion without using too much more energy to stretch it. (Say, Latex, which requires a lot of energy to stretch, compared to nylon weave)

 

[DesertFare]

Well, the thing is, you'll have to be wearing something underneath your armor, anyway, so you may as well just wear an undersuit. Also, it promotes accuracy. I'm making an ODST, right? So, my plan is to use Sean Bradley's design. It's accurate, comfortable, and relatively cheap.



With Spartans, it's a bit more complicated. First off, there's more large armor, which will inhibit movement. Why make it worse, with parts connected to each other? You can retain motion by making your connector as long as your maximum extension, but then it'll fold over itself when you're anywhere less than that. You can make it look good by making it as long as your relaxed pose, but then you'll lack extension, and it'll still fold over when you bend backwards. Looking at the McFarlane toys, I'd say it's probably best to wear something tight-fitting, then make an accurate suit, then slap your armor on over that.



Unless, of course, there's a material I'm not thinking of that doesn't hold too tight to wear something underneath it, and stretches enough to allow full motion without using too much more energy to stretch it. (Say, Latex, which requires a lot of energy to stretch, compared to nylon weave)

for odst's its a different story, what i was mainly pretaining to for this topic was spartan armor

 

[GremlinLord]

I was talking about a real muscle suit. BFX did a hulk like suit but like you guys said it lacks movement. I good example of a well designed suit is the "mr incredable" suit that many Predator costumes are built on. Also for a spartan you wouldn't need to add much "muscle", if any depending on your natural build.



Normally you wear a suit undersuit>padding>armor which leaves gaps because well... very few of us are built like a video game character. The muscle suit lets you go padding>undersuit>armor to seal the suit to the armor and provide some bulk under it so you don't get the "parachute pants" flapping going on.



A properly fitted muscle suit blends into your body unlike the BFX suit, but their technique works even if their choice of foam was questionable. If you guys have a copy of Spiderman 2 (I think) there is a good discussion on Spiderman's costume and muscle suit in the bonus features.

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

for odst's its a different story, what i was mainly pretaining to for this topic was spartan armor

And, the meat of my post was about the cons of such a system in Spartan armor. Read it again. The second word in my second paragraph is Spartans. Then, I say larger armor, bring up McFarlane Toys, and so on.



My point is, I see no real benefit in this, over existing methods, and I also see a decrease in possible accuracy to the game, as well as comfort. It's my objective opinion, but it's just that. An opinion. If you wanna do it, by all means. It's your armor. But, I was saying why I wouldn't do that to my armor. Though, if it seems to work and look better, I'll recant my statement.

 

[tubachris85x]

Good thing I read this before making a thread on this..



I've been planning on making an MC after I get back from training and I feel that the undersuit is one of the most crucial elements of making a MC/M6 look good. I think the biggest issues when it comes to this is always the body types. Gaps in armor where it shouldnt be, wether or not the pieces a person is wearing is properly proportioned to the wearer. I see, espeically this going on with the muckle suits. I think this can however be overcome by patience, using the pepakura accurately.



Anyways...the undersuit. IMHO, I feel that a good undersuit has to be custom made by a very skilled seamstress, utilizing good references/accurate designs based off the game's model. My thoughts I came up with today was to not make a full body undersuit, based on how the armor is laid out.



Idea: Make the "trouser" section, to where it covers the legs, waist and goes up ONLY to the middle of your chest/sternum. This will allow you to motion your upper torso/arms without worry of being restrained by the lower portion of your suit. If you've ever worn Coveralls before, you'd understand what I mean. For the waist/cod piece, it wouldn't have to be attached to their, however, figuring out a good fastening method to "lock" the cod piece in the proper place would prove vital to the suit.



For the chest armor, make pre-fabricated sleaves that are attached from the inside of the arm sections of the torso armor. This is one of those things that really erks me, being able to see all the way across the wearer's armor, including their strapping system. The only significant drawback to this method, is that the sleave must be made to fit you almost perfectly, if not, be able to stretch and flex. The next real issue is the arm and leg armor, to make it appear "sealed" along with the undersuit, yet managable enough to remove/attach when getting dressed, as well as being able to be locked in place without moving/sliding around.



I dunno, I'm probably getting anal, but I know that once I get back, having a job, I can actually start considering some of these things..I want to be able to have a chief that looks like it walked out of the game...

 

[elkrisp]

Good thing I read this before making a thread on this..



I've been planning on making an MC after I get back from training and I feel that the undersuit is one of the most crucial elements of making a MC/M6 look good. I think the biggest issues when it comes to this is always the body types. Gaps in armor where it shouldnt be, wether or not the pieces a person is wearing is properly proportioned to the wearer. I see, espeically this going on with the muckle suits. I think this can however be overcome by patience, using the pepakura accurately.



Anyways...the undersuit. IMHO, I feel that a good undersuit has to be custom made by a very skilled seamstress, utilizing good references/accurate designs based off the game's model. My thoughts I came up with today was to not make a full body undersuit, based on how the armor is laid out.



Idea: Make the "trouser" section, to where it covers the legs, waist and goes up ONLY to the middle of your chest/sternum. This will allow you to motion your upper torso/arms without worry of being restrained by the lower portion of your suit. If you've ever worn Coveralls before, you'd understand what I mean. For the waist/cod piece, it wouldn't have to be attached to their, however, figuring out a good fastening method to "lock" the cod piece in the proper place would prove vital to the suit.



For the chest armor, make pre-fabricated sleaves that are attached from the inside of the arm sections of the torso armor. This is one of those things that really erks me, being able to see all the way across the wearer's armor, including their strapping system. The only significant drawback to this method, is that the sleave must be made to fit you almost perfectly, if not, be able to stretch and flex. The next real issue is the arm and leg armor, to make it appear "sealed" along with the undersuit, yet managable enough to remove/attach when getting dressed, as well as being able to be locked in place without moving/sliding around.



I dunno, I'm probably getting anal, but I know that once I get back, having a job, I can actually start considering some of these things..I want to be able to have a chief that looks like it walked out of the game...

Actually, being anal aside, you make pretty good points. I think, in order to achieve perfection, it's the mindset you have to have. The "oh well, this will do..." mindset doesn't lend itself well to replicating something this complicated.



I've been agonizing over the undersuit for awhile now... and I still don't have a great idea of which direction I want to go.



One thing I think is important is to have a mannequin that is the same size as you. This way you can customize your individual armor pieces to your body, helping to eliminate gaps.



Here's a good example of the mannequin idea:

http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11488&st=0