Warthog Possible Suspension Close To Game

[chitwood1775]

I have no clue what a baja or arena truck is...

Also, it turns out that I may be able to start work on my street legal warthog in a year... Minimum.

 

[TeamBadGuys]

I was chatting with some gear head friends of mine about this idea, they thought it was great but had a couple of concerns. The fist being control, with the front wheels not connected and able to move up and down on their own it may cause steering issues when off roading ( and we all know we want to build these to do some 4x4ing) which lands us on the other point. With this axle design an impact to the front tires will cause them to shoot up possibly hitting the undercarriage or hit hard enough it will roll the vehicle. Now don't get me wrong they didn't say it would not work they just said it will take a lot of trial and error to get the right set up. They did how ever suggest and alternative, Baja or arena trucks they sit high enough, have a lot of play in the suspension and the parts are easy to find.

Hey when you say baja, do you mean 4x4 vw Beetle mods? Dont they have the rear mounted engine? Its gonna be difficult to make a hog with rear rear engine, thats all.

 

[gingersnapples]

link fixed

 

[chitwood1775]

so as of right now how much strain could this system take? because i want to make a Gauss Hog that i could drive down the free way using this suspension system (with permission to use it) sometime in early 2012.

 

[Bountyknight]

dude some really need to show this to the guy thats build a real wart hog on this forum i cant remember the guys name but hes doing and really nice job on it

 

[runcornstuntman]

in game its usin hydrogen i believe, i dont remember exactly what the wiki says, but its something ridiculous like a 12 litre v8 running hydrogen? or some future fuel source but dont quote me on that

 

[0235]

i think that the hog was electric actially. may sound stupid, but why have all those drive shafts going to the wheels when each wheel could have a seperate in hub electric motor, and the engine onboard could simply be poweringan electrical generator.
i am guessing this, as about 10 years ago, the US military was researching the shadow RST-V

this is electric, and i think it looks lisghtly hoggy. the main benefit is the suspension, and that it can be lowered to fit in the back of aircraft..

even some crazy ideas, like this one, which can also run upside down

 

[Tyvern]

electric start-up for a hydrogen fueled engine.

If only we had that now!

 

[TeamBadGuys]

electric start-up for a hydrogen fueled engine.

If only we had that now!

We dont?

I mean, BMW makes a gasoline powered engine that could also run on hydrogen. Obviously there is an electric starter involved. The problem is storing the fuel (Hydrogen) in a safe and affordable way.

Remember this is Hydrogen Internal Combusion Engine.

 

[runcornstuntman]

yeh but dont forget that fuel systems in modern day cars run high presuure the whole way through. plus there are trucks being outfitted with hydrogen however due to the rarity of service stations equipped to fuel hydrogen they are still a long way off. ICE engine dont really matter because u need to ignite the fuel source somehow.

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

To clear up the confusion, the engine in the warthog is a 12-liter V8 engine optimized for Hydrogen combustion. (Any otto-cycle engine today can run on hydrogen, keep in mind) The most obvious solution for its strange suspension translating to a drivetrain is that it uses an electronic drivetrain, as opposed to a physical one.

That is, instead of a transmission, the engine couples to a large, electric generator. The generator then feeds electricity through wires to separate motors in each suspension arm, that directly couple to the wheel hubs. When more throttle is applied, the generator creates more electricity, which in turn, spins the wheels faster. There are some little bits, along the way, but this is just the concept. Doing this makes the vehicle much lighter and more robust. (Fewer moving parts)

This is supported by facts about the Warthog. It is stated to have an infinitely variable transmission. This is used to refer to any transmission that allows for any wheel speed, while the engine remains at a fixed speed in its power band. Some designs for IVTs involve variable-tension v-belts, but these are more akin to CVTs. An electric drivetrain allows for infinite variability.

While Bevbor's model is physically possible, and rather novel, it is unlikely to be the actual design, based on what has been said about the M12 FAV.

As for the hydrogen issue, in the future, oil ran out and people got smart. Current ICEs can run on hydrogen, which has a lower energy/molecule ratio, but a higher energy/weight ratio, and is easy to produce. (Not to mention infinitely renewable and clean) The only reason most vehicles today don't use hydrogen is because there's no infrastructure in place to supply it. (Or produce it by the billions of gallons)

As far as storing it safely and affordably, for years, people have used propane-powered vehicles, and nitrous-oxide-enhanced fuel systems. Both those systems use tanks filled with pressurized liquid gases. There's precedent for this, just no infrastructure. And that's what needs to be created, otherwise, we're gonna run out of fuel, and World War III won't even be able to start because there'll be no way to power anything.

 

[Akademee]

Standard shocks and suspension are SOOOOOOOOO 21st century

 

[ADOR]

Another alternative I have looked into before, but just didn't have the money to do it on my warthog. Maybe later on. Yes the basic in game warthog is electric motor with direct drive to each wheel and the engine is hooked directly to the generator. I have looked into is using hydraulics. Use the basic engine hooked to a hydraulic pump. Then have a direct drive hyd motor on each wheel. This technology is used every day now in big equipment.(example: forklifts) And with the right rpm hyd motor matched to your tire size it could run all day long no problem. You could also set up the steering on hydraulics too. The in game warthog should use electric servos, but the size and strength you would need I don't think you could find one cost effective. Hydraulics was the simplest set up I could find for this style suspension. A 500 HP hydraulic motor can fit in your hand. The torque they put out is massive too. Just right for big tires. Mounting them to a car rim you loose the big heavy industrial rim and solid rubber tires and loose a lot of rotating mass.

example: check out the torque rating..........http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200319051_200319051

http://blog.cardomain.com/2008/03/28/ford-explorer-g/

There is a ton on this out there. These were just a couple of quick example I put up.

 

[TeamBadGuys]

Another alternative I have looked into before, but just didn't have the money to do it on my warthog. Maybe later on. Yes the basic in game warthog is electric motor with direct drive to each wheel and the engine is hooked directly to the generator. I have looked into is using hydraulics. Use the basic engine hooked to a hydraulic pump. Then have a direct drive hyd motor on each wheel. This technology is used every day now in big equipment.(example: forklifts) And with the right rpm hyd motor matched to your tire size it could run all day long no problem. You could also set up the steering on hydraulics too. The in game warthog should use electric servos, but the size and strength you would need I don't think you could find one cost effective. Hydraulics was the simplest set up I could find for this style suspension. A 500 HP hydraulic motor can fit in your hand. The torque they put out is massive too. Just right for big tires. Mounting them to a car rim you loose the big heavy industrial rim and solid rubber tires and loose a lot of rotating mass.

example: check out the torque rating..........http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200319051_200319051

http://blog.cardomain.com/2008/03/28/ford-explorer-g/

There is a ton on this out there. These were just a couple of quick example I put up.

Um, are you sure thats not just the torque of the fan that powers the liquid? Pretty different from engine-wheel torque right? Anyways thats a cool idea if you can make it work affordably (weight-wise).

To clear up the confusion, the engine in the warthog is a 12-liter V8 engine optimized for Hydrogen combustion. (Any otto-cycle engine today can run on hydrogen, keep in mind) The most obvious solution for its strange suspension translating to a drivetrain is that it uses an electronic drivetrain, as opposed to a physical one.

That is, instead of a transmission, the engine couples to a large, electric generator. The generator then feeds electricity through wires to separate motors in each suspension arm, that directly couple to the wheel hubs. When more throttle is applied, the generator creates more electricity, which in turn, spins the wheels faster. There are some little bits, along the way, but this is just the concept. Doing this makes the vehicle much lighter and more robust. (Fewer moving parts)

I agree with you on the warthog engine being hydrogen combustion. Thats what I was trying to say. Pretty obvious. Didnt know it was V8. Would have thought V6 with greater engine volume would be more efficient for hydrogen.

Dunno about electronic drivetrain tho (you mean electric right?) I would say electrically powered wheels powered by a combustion powered generator would outweigh the benefits of the HICE in the first place. Too many "middle men". Would rather use a simple hydrogen fuel cell (hydrogen battery) electric if having to imply an electric drive in the first place. Remember, Hydrogen is just a way to store energy. It takes more to make it than to use it.

My personal bet would rather be to keep the hydrogen combustion engine, and use a steel-titanium alloy chain-powered drivetrain. (Think ATV). Possibly with a viscous clutch w/ seamless automatic gearbox and center-mounted limited slip differential. (for better traction/drifting control. You know how she likes to fishtail.)

That way you would keep a low weight, a simple (durable) design, an efficient transmission of power from engine to ground, and a powerful/durable engine. It would also allow for the "legs" of the hog to be jointed at the right points of the structure without getting in the way of the (mainly) hydraulically powered steering.

Edit:/thread?