Jorge KIA or just MIA

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Doesn't show a burning planet, it shows a Forerunner planet. The ship back there is more likely to be one of the ships from the Aszod Shipbreaking Yard that happened to at least mostly miss getting blasted, but was still inop and groundside. Perhaps, that's a part of the wreckage of the Commonwealth.

In any case, Reach was glassed 6 months before the Battle of the Ark, and given the time Master Chief must have been drifting out there, after being jarred from Slipspace, I'm more than willing to bet this shot happens chronologically before the end of 3.

I get that no one wants their heroes to die, but let's be honest. They're gone. They fought hard, and now they can rest, forever. Even Jun is implicitly stated to be dead. The only one you can justify surviving is Master Chief, but even he's indefinitely frozen in cryogenic storage. Cortana's even faded into rampancy, with all likelihood. Spartans do die, I'm sorry to say, and when they do, they deserve to be allowed their rest.

Everyone is intitled to their own opinions. I like to believe however, That since the rear end of the frigate is only present when the vegetation has healed (a process that would take no less than a year), and not when the planet is smoldering, would lead me to believe that ship crashed long after the events of reach took place. I also believe that Forerunner symbols are not important in the actual game, The Pillar of Autumn has a marathon symbol branded on it, as does guilty spark. and as proven by the game REACH, The book titled "THE FALL OF REACH" had little to no cannon in the actual games.
 
im just gonna wait for the movie… or the inevitable release of halo 4. If they'll whore out Halo C.E you can bet your ass the'll do the same to MC. poor bastard just wants a nap!! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR?
 
im just gonna wait for the movie… or the inevitable release of halo 4. If they'll whore out Halo C.E you can bet your ass the'll do the same to MC. poor bastard just wants a nap!! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR?
ahhh, he gets enough sleep lol. he ends up napping in a ship at the end of every game lol.
 
He died bro, just have to accept it.

They all died, no elaborate tricks, or fancy tie-ins, or inconcievable twists, just, they all had their own story, and their stories ended, simple as that. And I don't care what 343 tries to do with Halo, anything they cough up I won't consider canon.
 
He died bro, just have to accept it.

They all died, no elaborate tricks, or fancy tie-ins, or inconcievable twists, just, they all had their own story, and their stories ended, simple as that. And I don't care what 343 tries to do with Halo, anything they cough up I won't consider canon.

I agree 100% with you, dude.

-Pony
 
A portal closed cutting Chiefs and Arbiters ship in half, key word "cut", even then chief had his helmet on and was able to find a cryo tube. Jorge, as was mentioned earlier, stood infront of the slipspace drive, if death from the pressure was not instantly, he would have frozen to death, died from the pressure, or sufocated, which ever came first, he had his helmet off, and that piece of the ship was compromised, major hull breach, as soon as atmosphere was gone so was he, plus there is no way to tell if the covies had any cryo pods. Jorge was a II not a III, he was not originally ment to be dispensible, the rest sadly are, plus it is possible to survive a bullet to the head, depends where you get hit, ACDCrockr209. And i agree, just let them die, be at piece, its what every spartan deserves, peace...
 
First, you guys are chumps I hope im never in the line of duty with you and go MIA. Second, I dont mean to repeat myself the"THE WHOLE CRUISER WAS ENCOMPASSED BY THE RUPTURE, the supercarrier was cut in half."

Third, SPARTANS DONT DIE, They just go missing in action...

Fourth, Cannon is for mindless noobs.

"Hold your beliefs firm... but dont let them fool you for a second to not think outside the box."
 
Fourth, Cannon is for mindless noobs.

I beg to differ. Cannon tells you what actually DID happen. So just because it's cannon that Johnson dies in halo 3, it's noobish to think he didn't survive? Even if you can glitch it and get him to live through the warthog run? Not exactly.

Also, we're a bunch of chumps. eh? Well, even if the slipspace rupture fully encompassed the ship, he's stuck in there. Can't go rescuing people from a slipspace rupture. he's as good as dead, even though he might have died a little later than expected. big deal. And Halo isn't real war, how often on the real battlefield do we deal with space/time distortions? Look, you can believe whatever you want: but you are intended to:
A. believe that Jorge died in teh explosion

end of story. until a ret-con comes up that he DID live, I ain't buying this.
 
No ones selling anyone... im just errked that this became a Cannon fight to say Jorge died... not a theory discussion like it was supposed to. and as for Johnson... How can you say that when he survived halo1... wheres the cannon behind that? it just happened, so why cant people we dont have a definate body count on just be MIA for the time being... Untill told otherwise...

Maybe the chump thing was a little harsh... was just putting myself in a 'still alive' Jorege's position.
 
Actually, Johnson (apparently) banged out in a pelican and met up with the chief. While stupid, yes, I agree it is retarded, but that's the cannon explanation. I'll take it.

Also, I'm arguing with cannon because I see no reason to deal in theories when I have more or less solid evidence in front of my eyes. He was meant to die, he died. Therefore, there is no other alternative. If you want to go write a fan-fic or something on how Jorge survived, go ahead, I'd probably read it. But I know it did not happen. Just telling you where I'm coming across from here.
 
About the earlier theory that the rear section of a frigate lays in the view of the finale scene. I know a bit about the Frigates and i can tell its not the bow or stern of the vessel. Its the mid section of an overturned frigate. a bit odd but its the only matching superstructure in the diagrams i have seen. And still some of the superstructure seems not to fit with frigate design, it could seriously be anything from a MAC platform to some sort of bigger vessel even though its less likely.

The destruction of New Mombasa via the Slip Space portal only caused that much catastrophic damage due to the fact it was fired up in atmosphere, not in the vacuum of space. we never see that sort of damage occur in space. note the scene in Halo 2 when "In Amber Clad" exited the slip space portal after Mombasa's destruction the buildings that where dragged through felt no visible effects in space when the rupture closed like it did in the city.

Its very possible, however unlikely that Jorge could have survived the rupture intact. The only variable is what a rupture does to living tissue. If he had put his helmet back on he would have a great chance to survive the ride, with what little air remained. But since he had taken off his helmet chances are he was killed by the rupture. Although we don't see if he did or not we know he was willing to die in that scene and probably didn't, quick termination rather than a slow one. But that bring me to the next point about the whole Corvette being dragged intact through the rupture. It happened, that whole corvette and half the carrier got sucked through so if the corvette remained intact, hull pressure and all, than he's still alive. And dont forget about the six Sabers on the corvettes landing deck. Assuming they didn't get puled off he also has a mode of transportation. While he cant use slip space, he can still fly only assuming he can fly a saber. And that's a great possibility because of the vehicle training Spartans received, even though it wasn't in sabers if you know how to fly anything you have at least a chance. And its proven in every halo game that a spartan can take command of nearly any vehicle due to a high level of vehicle training that All Spartans received. Its just that not all Spartans are that good at it.

Part of the Carrier that was pulled from the rest of the ship into slip space was a midsection launch bay. Assuming Jorge can fly a Saber all he would need to do is board the Hanger of the Carrier and obtain a Slip space worthy transport. Hell, if Mickey can fly a drop ship than Jorge can fly one too. And we know that they utilize some sort of small jump capability.
 
About the earlier theory that the rear section of a frigate lays in the view of the finale scene. I know a bit about the Frigates and i can tell its not the bow or stern of the vessel. Its the mid section of an overturned frigate. a bit odd but its the only matching superstructure in the diagrams i have seen. And still some of the superstructure seems not to fit with frigate design, it could seriously be anything from a MAC platform to some sort of bigger vessel even though its less likely.

The destruction of New Mombasa via the Slip Space portal only caused that much catastrophic damage due to the fact it was fired up in atmosphere, not in the vacumm of space. we never see that sort of damage occur in space. note the scene in Halo 2 when "In Amber Clad" exited the slipe space portal after Mombasa's destruction the buildings that where dragged through felt no visible effects in space when it closed like in the city did.

Its very possible, however unlikely that Jorge could have survived the rupture intact. The only variable is what a rupture does to living tissue. If he had put his helmet back on he would have a great chance to survive the ride, with what little air remained. But since he had taken off his helmet chances are he was killed by the rupture. Although we don't see if he did or not we know he was willing to die in that scene and probably didn't, quick termination rather than a slow one. But that bring me to the next point about the whole Corvette being dragged intact through the rupture. It happened, that whole corvette and half the carrier got sucked through so if the corvette remained intact, hull pressure and all, than he's still alive. And dont forget about the six Sabers on the corvettes landing deck. Assuming they didn't get puled off he also has a mode of transportation. While he cant use slip space, he can still fly only assuming he can fly a saber. And that's a great possibility because of the vehicle training Spartans received, even though it wasnt in sabers if you know how to fly anything you have at least a chance.

Part of the Carrier that was pulled from the rest of the ship into slip space was a midsection launch bay. Assuming Jorge can fly a Saber all he would need to do is board the Hanger of the Carrier and obtain a Slip space worthy transport. Hell, if Mickey can fly a dropship than Jorge can fly one too.

thank you thats the type of disputing I was looking forward to reading. :)
 
That said, there are issues with the entire Slipspace note, anyway.

For starters, Slipstream Space is highly radiated, to the point where much of the mass of a slip-capable ship has to be lead, to absorb and deflect radiation for extended periods. (Beyond real-space cosmic ray deflection capabilities) The sheer amount of radiation would have ripped through even a sealed MJOLNIR armor, to say nothing of Jorge's compromised armor.

Under the assumption he could somehow survive the radiation, Slipstream Space is very turbulent. In canon, it's given that a Covenant Spirit dropship had to be braced and retrofitted with as much armor as they could spare, and even that came near being destroyed when it dropped out of a vessel in-slip. From what we know about Covenant materials, their metals are far more rigid than any known human metal, and such a dropship can absorb more damage than even the MJOLNIR battlearmor. Even if he could have survived the radiation, he'd be killed by the turbulence of the stream.

But, past that, let's look at another interesting issue: it was an uncontrolled Slipspace rupture that enveloped the ship. While controlled ruptures of Slipspace are benign to ships designed to handle the stream, the ship's navigation computer has to manage the quantum filaments of the stream and flow along the right threads of space to stay intact and follow the right course, then at the exact right moment, drop out of the stream by rupturing it again. In canon, that secondary maneuver has been shown to cause massive distance errors, based on nanoseconds of delay between ships. In canon, it is also stated that when a slipspace drive destabilizes in-slip, the nav-com shuts it down, drops the ship from Slipspace, and sends a distress signal. (STP - Slip Termination- Preventable) But, given that the rupture was uncontrolled, everything was enveloped in a random filament of Slipspace. Possibly, more than one filament. At the atomic level, the ship was ripped apart, for sure at least around the edges of the rupture. Based on the above properties, it is reasonable to assume that matter inside would be broken down at the atomic level, as well.

But, even if we can assume all of that isn't true, there still remains the canon issue that engineers working on operating Slipspace drives have been known to disappear from existence, apparently transported into the stream, unprotected. In that case, Jorge would be similarly flung on his own, apart from the ship and its contents, and would have died, even if he was thrown out of Slipspace, unscathed, because his armor was compromised. Even if that didn't happen, the drive's energy would have caused sufficient force to kill him as it created the rupture, unprotected. Even if that didn't happen, the force would have exploded the Pelican, and the explosion would have killed him.

When In Amber Clad and the Assault Carrier slipped, the finely-controlled rupture (Which are far less energetic, therefore causing less damage, according to canon) caused several buildings, as well as the frigate to be pulled into the stream, in piggyback. Some of those buildings survived, somewhat intact, but keep in mind their structures were made of thick, radiation-resistant concrete, and they were large constructs, in comparison to a human. (Note how they size up compared to the 470-meter-long frigate) This happened under fairly ideal conditions and still caused that much damage. (The only reason in-atmo jumps cause so much damage is because the rupture emits a large quantity of energy into the area around it. In-atmo, there's a medium through which it can travel. Note the rupture didn't seem much larger in size than a CAC would have needed in space, but rather, the energy was released upon collapse, when the radiation surged through the air.

Even assuming that ship is a Frigate, on Reach's surface, Reclaimer's right. The only bit that could be is a midsection. Chief was trapped in the aft, and the midsection was with the Arbiter. There is physically no way that could have been the same vessel the Master Chief boarded at the end of the Battle of the Ark. Furthermore, you can't argue that planet is Reach. The Reach we see is scarred by being glassed. Even still, the planet seems to be organic, and covered in natural material. Forerunner planet from Halo 3 has Forerunner design design elements, and seems to allude more to Onyx than Reach.

While I'm all fine to speculate things we can't be sure of, I don't see how you can argue in any way that Jorge survived, or that Reach is the Forerunner planet seen at the end of Halo 3. Spartans never officially go KIA, but let's be honest. They do die. I mean, is Sam still alive? So, let me hammer off my list of debunks before I go:
Jorge- See the whole post
Kat - The needle rifle round completely penetrated her skull, exiting on the bottom side. Rounds are of sufficient size, and was placed in correct area to remove enough brain matter to cause systemic shock and end life function.
Carter - He was mortally wounded during the flight from Sword Base to Aszod. Upon Noble encountering a Scarab, he attacked at full speed and crashed the Pelican into the Covenant walker, killing him.
Emile - Covenant energy sword position appears to have penetrated his lungs and possibly his heart. Damage appears to run to the spinal cord. Even if he could have survived the loss of his lungs, blood loss would have killed him imminently.
Jun - While it's possible you can argue he survives, and he does survive the game, an as-yet unnamed Spartan is stated to have been killed, defending Halsey, as she escaped Reach, in one of the novels. (I believe Fall of Reach. (Which is canon, according to Bungie, and takes place parallel to the events of Halo: Reach. Both serve two perspectives of the battle))
Six - I swear, if you don't accept that one, I'm gonna rip you, your mother, and your youngest sister a new one.
 
Yeah, carter might have even died before the impact, and it definately looked like Kat got hit in the brainstem, Jorge gave up, he could have survived if everything went right, but he just gave up. Emile got glassed even if he survived the sword, and six got gangbanged by energy sword wielding officers, so i dont even have to finish this sent............
 
@SchizophrenicMC

There is also the highly unlikely possibility that Jun evacuated off of Reach with other people from CASTLE base.
 
While that's possible, the sad fact is, all the Spartans from the Fall of Reach are accounted for, save Jun, and there is one stated to have died helping Halsey escape. I'm putting my bets on he's the one.
 
The make shift slipspace bomb that was used to incapacitate the supercarrier was just that: a bomb. Not anything our current sciences can make but i will try to explain. The slipspace tech in the Halo Universe basicly opens a worm hole in the space fabric and folds it making 2 points anywhere in the universe much closer. HOWEVER....the further the jump, the more calculations, the more dangerous. Now, the accident that Noble team recreated was a complete disaster that DESTROYED not transported a human ship. This happened by a destabilization in the opening of the worm hole ripping all matter in the radius of the opening into its most basic particles, THEN, transporting it to the calculated location.
You must take into consideration that the Savannah (the human ship that donated its drive to make the bomb) is a very small fraction of the size of the Covenant supercarrier. Therefore, the drive doesn't need to make as big of a rupture as the supercarrier would to get through the ripped fabric of space. This lead to only about 45% of the supercarrier being destroyed.
In conclusion, Jorge was inside this radius of matter destabilization and was ripped apart. A quick death but a death none the less.
Now onto the subject of the Arbiter and Master Chief. The reason Chief didnt make it back to Earth and the Arbiter did is due to the fact that slipspace ruptures (even stable ones) can only remain open for a limited amount of time. The front part of the frigate (containing the Arbiter) entered the rupture before it desabilized. Chief and Cortana were not so lucky. As they were entering the slipspace rupture it began to desabilize and close. This destabilization resulted in a change in the trajectory of the back half of the frigate. The force of the destabilization sheared the ship on two, sending the front half to its planned destination: Earth, and the back half to near random coordinates.
I would greatly appreciate a debate :)
 
Not really something I'd put much debate into, save a few details that don't change the overall gist. Namely, theoretically, a Slipspace rupture can be held open indefinitely, if your generator can maintain it, according to some canon I read somewhere, and the only reason the portal closed (It was open during the entire Battle of the Ark) was the damage the Ark's slipspace field generators sustained when Halo A-II fired.

In any case, it shows just how damaging an unstable Slipspace rupture can be.
 
That said, there are issues with the entire Slipspace note, anyway.

For starters, Slipstream Space is highly radiated, to the point where much of the mass of a slip-capable ship has to be lead, to absorb and deflect radiation for extended periods. (Beyond real-space cosmic ray deflection capabilities) The sheer amount of radiation would have ripped through even a sealed MJOLNIR armor, to say nothing of Jorge's compromised armor.

Under the assumption he could somehow survive the radiation, Slipstream Space is very turbulent. In canon, it's given that a Covenant Spirit dropship had to be braced and retrofitted with as much armor as they could spare, and even that came near being destroyed when it dropped out of a vessel in-slip. From what we know about Covenant materials, their metals are far more rigid than any known human metal, and such a dropship can absorb more damage than even the MJOLNIR battlearmor. Even if he could have survived the radiation, he'd be killed by the turbulence of the stream.

But, past that, let's look at another interesting issue: it was an uncontrolled Slipspace rupture that enveloped the ship. While controlled ruptures of Slipspace are benign to ships designed to handle the stream, the ship's navigation computer has to manage the quantum filaments of the stream and flow along the right threads of space to stay intact and follow the right course, then at the exact right moment, drop out of the stream by rupturing it again. In canon, that secondary maneuver has been shown to cause massive distance errors, based on nanoseconds of delay between ships. In canon, it is also stated that when a slipspace drive destabilizes in-slip, the nav-com shuts it down, drops the ship from Slipspace, and sends a distress signal. (STP - Slip Termination- Preventable) But, given that the rupture was uncontrolled, everything was enveloped in a random filament of Slipspace. Possibly, more than one filament. At the atomic level, the ship was ripped apart, for sure at least around the edges of the rupture. Based on the above properties, it is reasonable to assume that matter inside would be broken down at the atomic level, as well.

But, even if we can assume all of that isn't true, there still remains the canon issue that engineers working on operating Slipspace drives have been known to disappear from existence, apparently transported into the stream, unprotected. In that case, Jorge would be similarly flung on his own, apart from the ship and its contents, and would have died, even if he was thrown out of Slipspace, unscathed, because his armor was compromised. Even if that didn't happen, the drive's energy would have caused sufficient force to kill him as it created the rupture, unprotected. Even if that didn't happen, the force would have exploded the Pelican, and the explosion would have killed him.

When In Amber Clad and the Assault Carrier slipped, the finely-controlled rupture (Which are far less energetic, therefore causing less damage, according to canon) caused several buildings, as well as the frigate to be pulled into the stream, in piggyback. Some of those buildings survived, somewhat intact, but keep in mind their structures were made of thick, radiation-resistant concrete, and they were large constructs, in comparison to a human. (Note how they size up compared to the 470-meter-long frigate) This happened under fairly ideal conditions and still caused that much damage. (The only reason in-atmo jumps cause so much damage is because the rupture emits a large quantity of energy into the area around it. In-atmo, there's a medium through which it can travel. Note the rupture didn't seem much larger in size than a CAC would have needed in space, but rather, the energy was released upon collapse, when the radiation surged through the air.

Even assuming that ship is a Frigate, on Reach's surface, Reclaimer's right. The only bit that could be is a midsection. Chief was trapped in the aft, and the midsection was with the Arbiter. There is physically no way that could have been the same vessel the Master Chief boarded at the end of the Battle of the Ark. Furthermore, you can't argue that planet is Reach. The Reach we see is scarred by being glassed. Even still, the planet seems to be organic, and covered in natural material. Forerunner planet from Halo 3 has Forerunner design design elements, and seems to allude more to Onyx than Reach.

While I'm all fine to speculate things we can't be sure of, I don't see how you can argue in any way that Jorge survived, or that Reach is the Forerunner planet seen at the end of Halo 3. Spartans never officially go KIA, but let's be honest. They do die. I mean, is Sam still alive? So, let me hammer off my list of debunks before I go:
Jorge- See the whole post
Kat - The needle rifle round completely penetrated her skull, exiting on the bottom side. Rounds are of sufficient size, and was placed in correct area to remove enough brain matter to cause systemic shock and end life function.
Carter - He was mortally wounded during the flight from Sword Base to Aszod. Upon Noble encountering a Scarab, he attacked at full speed and crashed the Pelican into the Covenant walker, killing him.
Emile - Covenant energy sword position appears to have penetrated his lungs and possibly his heart. Damage appears to run to the spinal cord. Even if he could have survived the loss of his lungs, blood loss would have killed him imminently.
Jun - While it's possible you can argue he survives, and he does survive the game, an as-yet unnamed Spartan is stated to have been killed, defending Halsey, as she escaped Reach, in one of the novels. (I believe Fall of Reach. (Which is canon, according to Bungie, and takes place parallel to the events of Halo: Reach. Both serve two perspectives of the battle))
Six - I swear, if you don't accept that one, I'm gonna rip you, your mother, and your youngest sister a new one.



its impossible for the halo 3 legendary planet to be Onyx its been proven its not Onyx. reason is that after the battle the sentinals literally destroyed Onyx they destroyed the surface leaving on a bubble atleast 2 meters in diameter. read Ghost of Onyx
 
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