Moulded Kevlar

[009 SPA]

Yeah, so I'm thinking about moulding my suits, or at least a part of them, out of Kevlar or a Kevlar/carbon-fibre composite. I wondered if anybody else is doing this, or already has, and if so what I need to be aware of. Although I have a pretty much unlimited budget for this project, I need to take cost into consideration, and I therefore need to know the surface area of a Mark VI suit, scaled at 70 inches.

Thanks in advance,

James

 

[link4044]

It's been talked about and no one has done due to the cost. I know you need other equiptment like vaccum bagging and the mould has to be bubble free or you will not get a nice surface. Prepare to spend alot of money on this something you will not need in life

 

[Sniperbaas]

I'd talk to this http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showuser=16368 guy. I'm not sure if he's still working on it, but he had plans to resin using kevlar fibers as opposed to fiberglass cloth. What you're talking about sounds a bit harder/possibly impractical (unless you sell 3-4 suits.) In terms of surface area, I'd guestimate more than 200sqin for a markvi helm...



Hope that helps, and I'll do some of the math later.





Cheers!

 

[ImaGonnaGetYou]

If you're not willing to find the surface area yourself, chances are you won't be willing to keep up with the project. That's the tip of the iceberg of tedious things you'll have to do, and you shouldn't be expecting anyone to hold your hand all the way there.



My advice? Don't. No offense, but you don't sound very knowledgeable about kevlar, and the last thing you want to do waste a couple thousand dollars on a suit just to end up ruining it.



Plus, there's tons of uses for that kind of money that would actually be useful. Last time I checked, nobody has any real reason to use kevlar since there are basically no uses for it besides getting shot.

 

[Drgnfyre4]

Like stated above..no offense, but do you plan on being shot at a lot in costume? For the money I personaly would rather use practical materials and spend what you would've spent making kevlar armor on having moree costumes and accessories.

 

[009 SPA]

Please don't post like that. I'm only asking for help, not for someone to tell me not to do something. Firstly, I am not at the beginning of my project at all. I have it almost all planned out, and while I have asked things on this forum before, I wouldn't describe myself as having my hand held. Secondly, while I am no expert on Kevlar, I have done my research. I know that it is a tough material that can be laminated like glass fibre, but is much harder to cut and retains less detail. And thirdly, as I said, money is not a problem. I won't be spending thousands of pounds, but my project will have a very good purpose.



@Sniperbaas392, thanks for the information. If you can let me know how you're calculating the area, that would be brilliant.

 

[Sniperbaas]

It's a bit of a guess for the area.

First:

Unfold the pieces to the right scale in pepakura

Second:

Once you have them unfolded, move them around till you as little free space as possible on the sheets

Third:

(If you can, save the peps for when you build them.)

Fourth:

Multiply the number of sheets for the unfolded model by (8.5*11) (or whatever size paper you use).

Fifth:

(If you want, you can multiply that number by how much of the paper is being used; however, I wouldn't for you may want some room for error. or maybe just use 90% to account for the flaps)

That should give you the approximate total surface area of each piece. (However, the flaps will also add a bit extra into that equation.)





Cheers!

 

[009 SPA]

That seems like a decent way of doing it, thanks. The reason why I asked is because I thought the original modellers may be able to find out much more easily. Do you think it would be worth contacting Robogenesis?

 

[Mr Toad]

If you have an unlimited budget I'd just contact a reputable professional to make a suit for you. I mean why bother with the fuss and mess of making it yourself? If I had that kind of bank I'd definately have someone crank out the armor for me. Then you can have them make it from anything you like. Kevlar will be lighter, which will be an advantage.

 

[Boba Fett]

Agree with Mr. Toad. If money is no object, get a pro. IT will look great, and they won't screw it up. If you've never worked with Kelvar, you might make some mistakes that will ruin it in the end.

 

[le yo ra]

agree,get a pro and be sure to always be there for test fitting,or modifications and cost-control ... lol

 

[DMW]

Why all the crapping in this guy's thread? If he wants to experiment & take on something that no-one else has (and realizes that it could be a costly journey), who are we to tell him what to do?





If I had money to burn & time to explore a new fabrication method, I'd be doing something similar.

 

[GremlinLord]

I got a agree with Dom, where is the love . I think someone took it out back and shot it :eek .



Anyway here is a quick way to get a semi accurate surface area calculation with pepakura. Compact the parts as close as you can get them in the pep. Overlaps are OK because you won't be able to cover every inch of paper. Now calculate the surface area of paper. It won't be accurate enough to get a perfect surface area count but it will get you close enough to guesstimate costs. New ideas are the lifeblood of this forum without them we all become clones and well people just stop caring. Good luck

 

[Mr Toad]

You misunderstand me if you feel I'm raining on his parade, I'm not. I'm just trying to get him the best result for the money. For this type of project Kevalr wont be any harder than fiberglas to do but it will cost a lot more. While it would be a good learning experience, if the end result is that he wants an awesome suit AND has the bank...just go get it made. Why spend hours and hundereds of dollars with a gooey smelly mess, making mistakes and throwing away cash till he develops the skills to build a acceptable suit. A pro will make it right, make it fast (faster and an amateur can), and will suck up the cost if they make a mistake.



009-SPA; if you want to learn how to make a suit out of composites then spend your money learning on fiberglass. When you are happy with your skills then jump to the more exotic materials. You may have an unlimited budget but no one want to throw money away.



I'm just trying to help.

 

[Trigger]

I personally think carbon fiber armor would be AMAZING... BUT and there is a big but here. Is the armor itself going to be made out of carbon fiber or are you trying to glass the inside of the pieces with carbon fiber? If that's the case save your money. You will get no benefit of the strength of the carbon fiber and none of the looks.

 

[guido666]

Yeah, so I'm thinking about moulding my suits, or at least a part of them, out of Kevlar or a Kevlar/carbon-fibre composite.

Would you mind if I asked why you decided on Kevlar?



And, an even more accurate way of "mechanically" figuring out the surface area would be to cut out the Pepakura pieces, even just close, and weigh them. Then weigh a full sheet of paper, and calculate from the surface area of the whole page.

 

[KevlarSpartan]

Im actually planning on using kevlar and carbon fiber sheets to make my battle-ready suit of mk VI, but if you want to use kevlar or any other fiber like that, then you will need to use special resin. You can try normal fiberglass resin, but the finished piece will break for fall apart after you apply even a relatively normal amount of force on it. What you'll want to get is the good stuff, i.e. a resin known as Zylon. It is specially designed for kevlar and other aramid fibers and even goes as far as to add a lot of extra strength to the finished piece. It costs quite a bit, but it is the ONLY way to go as far a kevlar is concerned. The resin will somewhat 'melt' the sheets together, and this no doubt provides an excellent bond.



I hope that helps!



Cheers,

 

[KevlarSpartan]

Im actually planning on using kevlar and carbon fiber sheets to make my battle-ready suit of mk VI, but if you want to use kevlar or any other fiber like that, then you will need to use special resin. You can try normal fiberglass resin, but the finished piece will break for fall apart after you apply even a relatively normal amount of force on it. What you'll want to get is the good stuff, i.e. a resin known as Zylon. It is specially designed for kevlar and other aramid fibers and even goes as far as to add a lot of extra strength to the finished piece. It costs quite a bit, but it is the ONLY way to go as far a kevlar is concerned. The resin will somewhat 'melt' the sheets together, and this no doubt provides an excellent bond.



I hope that helps!



Cheers,

P.S: (and soz for double post) You can get the Zylon resin from DuPont

 

[SGT V]

Battle Ready? What do you expect to do in this costume? Kevlar laminate is more than layering sheets in a resin. Kevlar helmets are cured under heat and pressure in a mold. Even the newest models will only stop a 9mm, and I question that.



Use whatever materials you like, that is your choice, but please do not go testing the armor against projectiles. I fear the best you would have is a cool looking costume to die in.



If you want to play paintball in the armor, there are some resins out there that are extremely tough. Only use approved protective masks though.



SSG V

 

[009 SPA]

@Mr Toad, while this would be a good idea, it does defeat the object of the exercise, since I am doing this project for a qualification. Also, employing someone to make the suit for you would definitely be a waste of money.



@Dom, I share your desire to find out new things, and I appreciate your support, thanks.



@Gremlin117, good point. I value the importance of creating something original and interesting, and thanks for the Pepakura suggestion.



@Mr Toad again, I understand that you're trying to help, but as I said, my suits will be useless of they have not been made by me. I have already started the fibreglass moulds, so I will have a bit of experience when I start.



@Trigger, the actual armour will be moulded, then laid up with one or more layers of fibreglass to preserve the detail, then one or more layers of Kevlar or Kevlar/carbon-fibre material. I'm not just going to replace the fibreglass in the Pepakura process with a more advanced material, as to me it defeats the object by putting heavy and superfluous body filler on top. Also, I want to mass produce them.



@Awesomeness, I'm choosing Kevlar because it is stronger, lighter, and more impact resistant that fibreglass, and so that I can say that it is made from an good material. Also, your surface area idea is fantastic, it's just too bad that I've already assembled all the parts.



@KevlarSpartan, thanks for the advice. I'm glad you said that, since I was originally planning on using polyester resin, or upgrading to epoxy resin. I inquired about this to the company I'm buying from, and they said that high quality, low weight epoxy resin was the way to go. They also offered me 25m[sup]2[/sup] of Kevlar material at £15m[sup]-1[/sup]. That's the cheapest I've found at the moment, if anybody knows of anywhere I can get it cheaper, that would be really helpful.



@SGT V, paintball is definitely not one of the reasons why I want a tougher suit. I haven't been considering it and I definitely won't be taking a sample to the paintball centre to be tested.



Generally, thankyou to everyone for your interest, help and advice so far. Again, some help with the fabric would be greatly appreciated.