3D printer HELP thread

Discussion in 'Halo 3D Modeling' started by peterthethinker, Nov 8, 2016.

  1. peterthethinker

    peterthethinker Well-Known Member

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    To help the forum with the vast world of 3D printing I am staring this thread to have ANY ONE ask and get answers .
    got a bad failed print of a prop Hopefully with the fine folks on here we can help each other out.
    And also help the new folks not repeat the stuff that does not work. NO point in wasting time and plastic on things that don't work.
    ill be editing this top part to have links to the Q's and failures and links to solutions .

    Some helpful Software for the steps of printing:

    http://www.123dapp.com/ A set of programs made by AutoDesk. These are the folks who make some of the best CAD programs in the world.
    Most useful is " Design " . It's as basic as MS paint but more then enough to get you in to the world of Mech CAD.
    It Runs on both windows and mac OS'es.

    The 123D Apps are free for personal and edu use! Commercial use is 10USD a month.

    http://www.meshmixer.com/ Also from AutoDesk Meshmixer lets you scale ,Dice and work with STL's and OBJ's,
    With MM you can fit props to your print bed and find flaws. Remove and add polys, And use it as a means to add some shaders to visualize your project.
    Runs on both windows and mac OS'es.

    https://www.blender.org/ Blender is VERY powerful. While not really a true Mech CAD program,
    It's vast tool array for working with pre made assets makes it a great tool to use for the Mesh to Solid conversion that is the cornerstone of 3D printing .
    Blender also does a very good job with poly Up conversion to take a raw asset and let you make then worth printing.
    It runs on *Nix Windows and mac OS'es.
    There are 3Dprinting plug-ins for Blender but I've yet to use them.

    https://www.netfabb.com/ Netfabb is the industry standard for repair of soon to be printed models.
    Got a hole in a print Netfabb Will fix that!
    Here is the version you will wanna download .
    Sadly its Windows only ... I hope with the massive budget that AutoDesk has that they will port it over soon, In the last few years AutoDesk has become mac friendly.

    While I own W7 for CAD and games . Most macs are more then able to handle the hardware load and with makers on many kinds of OSes Its smart to reach all of them.

    Here is a Netfabb Alternitive that reemaj3D has found
    Ive not yet tried it but its Web based and that means any Desktop OS can use it ,
    ( likely android and Chome OS too! )

    Buying 3D Printed parts from others:

    PerniciousDuke Has done a VERY good write-up on what to look for when buying 3D printed parts or full props.


    Buying a pritner : its gonna be updated to be MUCH bigger soon
    but here is a Great list from https://www.3dhubs.com/trends


    Also here are the trends to what is hot and not .


    To be blunt :
    Here is a shure fire list of a few machines Ive used that I Can vouch for

    Under a grand and want a VERY good box to start on and have for a few years . Prusa I3 and its GOOD quality clones. $400-600

    Want to go big and blow 2200 USD? Then the Luzbot TAZ is the top of the class.

    Want a box that is a good over all value and can be a armor work horse in the shop? The flashforge Dreamer and Creator Pro are great!
    The two have the same internal frame and same hot ends and same qualty
    the dreamer has a onboard ARM proc ( like a rasperryPi) with WiFI and a touch screen that makes it in stand alone mode a snap to use with NO PC near by.
    the creator uses more open software BUT is more complicated .

    Ill add more Good machines as I get time. but My list reflects the industrys stats

    Got one you use PM!! me and Il add it !

    I have at my lab both a Flashforge Dreamer and

    I have a Rostock MAX

    What to avoid at ALL costs... and I do mean costs...

    The * currrent gen* makerbots are $2500 ish and cant do ABS... the I3 can and its WAY cheaper

    The XYZ besides the $700 pro MUST use there DRM MicroChipped plastic . at 28 USD for 600 grams.
    * at $ 700 bucks you can get a I3 and buy tons of plastic ! *
    Please read the reviws and how nasty they are.

    99% of the consumer 3Dp world is not Ok with Chipped DRM consumables
    What works for your inkjet is not OK in Our book for 3Dp.

    Yea you gotta * pay up* to play but once you are in, the filiment world is yours !

    The Avg market rate is around $25 bucks a KG for Mid and good grade plastic ( 19-35 is the range you can find from Plastic trash to over priced )

    Now on to plastic and why a heated bed is a MUST.

    More to come .
    Vrogy and kaween like this.
  2. kaween

    kaween Member

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    Totally agree with the idea ! No reason to reinvent the wheel again, again and again.

    I don't have failed prints .... since quite some time. But I've had dozens of failures before I got there. :)
    peterthethinker likes this.
  3. Chernobyl

    Chernobyl Sr Member

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    If the OP gets populated with more information and we can get this thread set up as a one-stop repository for 3D printing information, I'll consider stickying it down the line. See me via PM if you have anything else you need.
    peterthethinker likes this.
  4. kaween

    kaween Member

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    Just an addition : there is a HUGE difference between the capabilities of NetFabb Basic (free) or NetFabb Private/Pro. Not only, but especially in terms fo repairing models.
    It's not really a cheap program (about 250USD I think), but I use it daily and it's totaly worth it. Also, other than Meshmixer, this piece of software _never_ crashes.

    But for easy slice/cut work and simple repairs ? Yes, NetFabb basic will do that for you. But i misses Boolean, it misses reskinning/resurfacing, adding texts/pics, easy measurement .... actually NetFabb basic is pretty limited. :(

    Sadly, Netfabb's terrible licence system is a real pain for people using multiple machines as a single user. It involves copying a licence key and registering/unregistering an active copy from one machine to another. Which regulary FAILS, resulting in you as payed user having to wait for their support to release you licence again.

    But in terms of functionality, it's the closest thing to a 3D Swiss Army knife imho.
    peterthethinker likes this.
  5. peterthethinker

    peterthethinker Well-Known Member

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    Yea . I only use it for Just repair . the MM repair is useless so ill bounce between both of them as a tag team to mod and fix. Evey part

    I use MM for almost all my middle work of flow.
  6. kaween

    kaween Member

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    MM seems to hate me. It crashes within 5 minutes max when I try to use it. Both on OSX and on MS by the way.
    I would like to use it in a sensible manner, but it's just way to unstable for me to work with. The idea it harbors Advanced Branched Support generation and me not able to use it as the bloody piece of software crashes waaaaay sooner then I can yell "don't crash on me now" is frustrating without end.

    Thankfully S3D allows for support editing, but not nearly as advanced as MM could do. :(
  7. peterthethinker

    peterthethinker Well-Known Member

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    Ive yet to buy Simplfy 3D . but I have heard great things about it! . Yea MM does crash. about one/two time a month . its so rare I dont mind .
  8. reemaj3D

    reemaj3D New Member

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    Any of you try out MakePrintable? This is an online STL repair tool. It fixes non-manifold surfaces, intersections and flipped faces. It can also check for wall thickness and hollow out your models. Even Mac is supported.
  9. tijojo98

    tijojo98 Jr Member

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    My printer power supply has been smoked 2 days ago and im not sure if it can broke other parta too or of i simply change the power supply is it gonna work again ?

    Envoyé de mon SM-G530W en utilisant Tapatalk
  10. peterthethinker

    peterthethinker Well-Known Member

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    I would assume any OS is supported if its all web based ..


    Looks GOOD to me ! Ill throw some probem files and seee how it handels the tought ones.

    as Netfabb is not mac or *nix friendly this might be a good work around for the POSIX folks out there

    Here is the catch. IF the failure was undervoltage then its VERY likely your main controller board is OK . BUT If it failed High ( and often Switch mode power supplys do ) then you may need to replace more then the PSU .

    what kinda power supply does the unit take> a ATX PC box or is it a single voltage metal frame brick?

    I use my nose . If you smell * burnt * on the main board then its likely toast.

    Just as a funny tip.

    the Old XB360 ran on 12V DC and 12-14 amps and 5V at about a amp. for a smaller non heated bed pritner these PSUs can be modded to make GREAT little 12V bricks for all kids of stuff IF you are experined with the safety of doing a few tweaks
  11. tijojo98

    tijojo98 Jr Member

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    Its the wanhao duplicator i3 v2 power supply it as a switch to switch between a 120 or 220 v i checked the switch and it was on 120 v i dont kbow if thats what you mean by switch mode power supply

    Envoyé de mon SM-G530W en utilisant Tapatalk
  12. peterthethinker

    peterthethinker Well-Known Member

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    Kinda. ( many SMPS are both 120V and 240V) a SMPS is a power brick that uses light weight transformers like a laptop brick or a PC ATX power supply. the older Heavy 3 inch cube wallwarts as they were called are based on a Iron core transformer and are just not able to * transform* as much raw power as a SMPS is , If your PC used a old skool transformer then the PSU would be as big as a larger gamer rig! .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply its kinda deep but a good read .
  13. oniwolf

    oniwolf Member

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    Hey man would you know of a good software for cutting ? Im using a bit of netfabb basic and meshmixer but i can only do basic straight cuts and would like to do my own free cuts down the seems of the helmets
    sorry for the bad pics
    15050214_1293923040658199_434958577_n.jpg 14997047_1293923030658200_1735230772_n.jpg
  14. Chernobyl

    Chernobyl Sr Member

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    Aaaaaaand get STUCK!
    Mesh likes this.
  15. ajmadison

    ajmadison New Member

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    My frustration with MM isn't that it crashes, but that operations I believe should be trivial, have routinely ended in a blood red mesh. Which is MM's way of saying that the operation failed. For example, I've been trying to take a STL file object (a subsection of a Halo weapon) and it into two separate components. If it was just a single plane cut, I'd do that, but the top part drapes over the bottom half. What I've been doing is first broadly cutting away the top half from the bottom, the using boolean difference to carefully remove the remaining chunks of the bottom half. Nothing terribly complicated, just pull in a box, slide it into place, refine its dimensions to match the desired outline, then run boolean difference. In one attempt, after half an hour of processing, the difference completed, I hit accept, and MM crashed. In another two attempts after that, I get a blood red object, and when I hit accept, MM says the boolean difference failed, and I go back to where I was before, with two objects superimposed on each other.

    Now, one of the things I discovered, is that the STL I was working with, was "hollow", there is the exterior mesh, and an inner mesh completely encased inside the outer mesh. I have checked with MM on "shells" but it doesn't report any. Other files in this project have all printed out as solid, so I presume that Simplify3D ignores the inner shells, if they have been present. So I've been using MM to make the STL "solid". That seems to be the difference between my boolean difference resulting in a crash, versus just a failed. I've also gotten some bizarre results doing the boolean difference. I suspect there are several shells of meshes in the STLs I'm working with, and when I did the CAD equivalent of routing out a 'dado' I had weird triangular fragments in the remaining channel.

    Alas, for the Mac, NetFabb Pro runs $125 *per month*. There's a 30 day free trial period. maybe I should try it.
  16. peterthethinker

    peterthethinker Well-Known Member

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    boolean in MM is VERY bad
    I just combine and I use NEt fabb to heal in to one part . back and forth . its not fast but works

    123D design can combine manafold solids and it works well but needs a beafy PC or mac to handle a larger file .
  17. kaween

    kaween Member

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    @oniwolf : Netfabb Private allows for free cutting along any plane, angle, size restriction, parts selection and what do I know.
    Netfabb basic/free only allows plane cutting afaik.

    Boolean fucntions in Netfabb Private work very nice too. Other than in MM.

    "you get what you pay for" it would seem.

    If you can't find a better solution and need something to be cut, I can do that for you if need be.


    Netfabb pro is prohibitly expensive. For that reason, take a look at the Private version. It carries most of the functionality of the PRO one, except for plugins ect ect.
    They offer a free 30 day trial on that one too. You just drop them an email, and they'll set you up. (which could be a hint for Oniwolf too ...albeit a one-shot-thing then)

    Last moment thought : over here in Europe, several technical High Schools and univsersities offer free licences to some pretty advanced 3D software for a very low price, sometimes even for free.
    Stuff like Solidworks, which is totally out of my realm financially speaking, can be had for next to nothing (or even nothing) when being a student.

    It's always worth to check and ask if your school is doing something like that, or if you know somebody in the family who might be eligable for such a deal.

    Could make a world of difference !

    I have a question of my own though :
    Got a question myself, but it's rather specific. Does anyone have any hands-on, real life experience with distortion mapping on Repetier firmware ?

    I've got a real odd issue which I just can't get my head around.

    I measure my endswitches and calibrate them (G132 S1 ... procedure)

    Then I invoke G32 S2 to start a 3 point hotbed callibration

    so far, all works normal

    then i do a "measure height map" in Repetier Host. Values look legit.

    after which I start the distortion grid detection G29

    still works perfectly.

    I redo a height map scan.

    Bed looks totally flat, difference of less than 0.05

    Save the stuff to Eeprom

    So what could go wrong, right ?

    I print a part with raft.
    The raft is put down as flat as a pancake, litterally, as flat on the bed as possible. Glass like interface with the bed.
    And then ... the part that is printed ON the raft decides it has to somehow start correting the values AGAIN ?! It more or less decides "it is not flat on the flat raft".

    This makes totally no sense to me. The distortion height map is intended to create a perfectly flat first layer.
    It does that. I see it doing that.
    And then it starts to compensate for tilt on a flat-printed raft ??????

    OH yeah, I can toss the raft. But that's not my question. The question is, WHY does it act like this ? I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here, I MUST be making some kind of error, but I'm totally lost imagining what.

    Help. Please. bigsmile.png

    Tried :

    - different version of Repetier firmware.
    - different slicers
    - different model

    This is more out of desperation, because normally, only the first factor should have any influence. But nooooo, Mr. Printer thinks I need to compensate again on an already compensated raft. *facepalm*

    And yes, I can print out on a G32 leveled bed too, but the fact there's this really extensive distortion system inside Repetier and getting WORSE results than a daft standard G29-comparable Autobed ? My brain isn't

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2017
  18. kaween

    kaween Member

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    ignore please, double post
  19. Chernobyl

    Chernobyl Sr Member

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    kaween, if you wouldn't mind: please try editing your post if it's been less than 24 hours. As a rule, we tend to discourage double-posting unless it's really necessary.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2017
  20. kaween

    kaween Member

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    No problem, didn't notice or realize it.
  21. mblackwell1002

    mblackwell1002 Well-Known Member

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    Kaween, what is your reasoning for a raft?
  22. mblackwell1002

    mblackwell1002 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, kaween, you should consider reseting your slicer to defaults..can't really think of much else...if your'e THAT desperate, you should. just remember your presets.
  23. kaween

    kaween Member

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    I'm seeing the problems with both Cura and S3D. The problems occur only after invoking G29 bed level probing on a 7x7 matrix. I'm starting to believe something is wrong with the values of the probing Matrix, as I've read there are versions of Repetier which drop or incorperate false matrix values in the first or last step of the measurement.

    As the same file yields different results only when the situation is either G33 leveled or G29 leveled (the same Gcode), I exclude the posibility of the slicer itself being an issue. IF so, the problem would not appear and disappear depending on the stored correction values in the machines' Eeprom, and it's highly doubtful the Gcode of both Cura and S3D would be the cause of exactly the same error.

    As for RAFT, I know this is a war of beliefs, and the mantra "Rafts are evil" is very popular. I'm old school.
    I don't use rafts as default. But there are prints where that gives me the best results.

    Certainly will very large sized parts printed in ABS (like 200x200 or bigger, the combination of a thin raft, held in place with ABS juice on a glass plate is my best way of getting warpfree ABS+ prints. Without that ? Issues with Warp and curling.) Small surface parts ? Sure. No issues there. Big ones with a very big surface footpint ? Not that much success without rafts.

    I've just today started to experiment with a PEI surface and abs juice to make the stuff stick to it, maybe that will work better, but on glass and kapton, I didn't have much luck doing large to oversized parts in ABS+ without warping otherwise.
  24. mblackwell1002

    mblackwell1002 Well-Known Member

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    Hrrm... I understood most of that.:Dnah, just joking
  25. ajmadison

    ajmadison New Member

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    I did try it. (yup its expensive. but decided I'm either all in or not for this hobby, and went all in.) My first issue is that NetFabb pro, *unlike* the free, only runs on Windoze. Eek. I don't have a Windoze machine (yeah, its from the fruit company). So I got the trial version of Parallels. I researched running NetFabb pro (actually just the installer) with Wine (which runs on Mac and Ubuntu). But it ran into dll issues, and the latest post about how to fix it, is dated 2012. Okay, back to Parallels and sigh, Windows 10. Everything went seamlessly. Parallels installed, Windows 10 installed, NetFabb installed. And it runs, and it doesn't crash, much. Apparently be careful where you place points for doing the polygonal cuts. At which point I went with boolean difference using boxes, and the cylinder cuts.

    But, to quote Gilda Radner, *its always something*. Though it prints solid, the STL I am working with is hollow, despite using different CAD tools to make it solid before editing it. I am going to finish modifying the part of interest, then run it through MeshMixer to add "thickness" to the mesh. And this is only the top half of the piece. I know this is mostly alphabet soup to alot of you, but converting even a supposedly printer ready set of files into something more is not easy, and even harder if you want to do it on a budget.

    Meanwhile, I find the conversation on CAD tools extremely useful. More than willing to share what I do know how to do with others.

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