Sean Bradley
Sr Member
I can't say exactly, but I can make a guess..
I'd get 2 or 3 rolls of the 8" × 5 Yard Plaster Cloth Roll
I'd get 2 or 3 rolls of the 8" × 5 Yard Plaster Cloth Roll
Pep!? Molding!? What's the Connection?
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Deadguy
Well-Known Member
When I had my "heroic bust" done (by Corey Castalano.. guy who did CSI:Miami Special effects 1st season, and "the Patriot", among others), we used an algaenate layer that was about a half-inch to a full inch thick.
I also used a thin layer of vasoline under it, (plus bald cap) but still lost the fine hairs on my face and it must have thinned-out my eyebrows a bit. It was cool though, I "got the hair back" in the first plaster positive we cast from it. lol, perfectly rooted in like the forehead and stuff.
I had an eye partially open, and though it DID replicate the eye, there was an air pocket which formed formed there that required him to reshape the eye slightly.. it wasn't planned for, because noone was sure how I'd hold-up in there, and whether the eye thing would be bad news or not. We let it go, thinking it was a cool bonus, not realizing that it had caused an air pocket.
Over the alganate a 2-piece shell mold was made out of plaster bandages, while I still wore the algaenate. The front half nested into the back half, with lines drawn on it to indicate a "stopping point" when putting the shells back together during casting. Once I was out of there, they thickened the shell further.
I noticed a lot of warmth from the plaster, but nothing uncomfortable. The algaenate rendered perfect detail, but created a problem on one of my earlobes.. the overall weight of the stuff tends to make your face droop a bit if it's put-on too thick, and it pulled the algaenate away from my earlobe because one of my friends who was helping to apply the stuff had put too much under my ear on that side and Corey hadn't noticed.
If you go this route, make sure you're seated comfortably and have some method of supporting your model. Since we were doing a heroic bust, it included my shoulders, and there's some shoulder defects where I moved around in the chair.. leaning actually, to offset the weight from a back injury I'd acquired the day before.
We were planning to use straws with the algaenate, but decided against it.. it turned out that they globbed the stuff on, and then carefully did the end of my nose without a problem.
While removing the plaster shell, there was a problem getting the chin past my chin.. to get the algaenate to separate from my face, I carefully blew air out of my mouth, creating an air pocket. Then they apparently lost track of what angle my chin was at and I had two grown men, trying to forcibly remove my chin along with the casting.
Per Corey, they were getting ready to go into panic mode because they weren't sure if I was still able to breathe/get enough air with all the exertions and not being against the nose holes anymore. No, I couldn't breath well, but I wasn't panicked either, so I was fine. I couldn't communicate so I basically just fought the angle they were pressing against and jutted my chin forward until it started moving and they figured out what was happening. I knew from experience that any groans I made would indicate a problem that would have them ripping their way in there, so I kept quiet to save the casting.
The shell came off, and then they cut open the back of the neck, up to the back-top of my head, and slid the algaante mold off of me.
We slushcasted the first head immediately with hydrocal, as the vasoline slowly began to break-down the alganate. Then immediately afterwards we got another partial slushcast that Corey wanted for some makeup he was doing. The second casting wasn't perfect and distorted a little bit. It was apparently good enough for what he needed though because I was back over there a few weeks later modelling an "old man from Nokia commercial" silicone mask for his portfolio. It was made from the second casting, and although it was designed to have a mouth that aligned with mine, something had drooped slightly, and I couldn't wear the mouth flush.
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BTW.. those rubberbands you wore? don't do that.. you'll create undercuts that could prevent you from removing the thing at all without breaking it up, not to mention distort the master mold
Also, when you do plaster bandages, be careful of doing too thin, or too thick.. too thin and they'll break, too thick and you will certainly fry, I used to have friends with various burn scars on their faces. The arm test is a decent test, but your skin there is not nearly as sensitive as the skin on your face. What's bearably hot on your arm could possibly melt the nasal passages on your face.
Apply the bandages carefully too.. prepare for mold seperation by planning one; Corey used vasoline during casting to stop the halves from joining. Local firemen should be on speed dial too in case a plan fails and some seriously delicate but strong cutting is required. Corey had the number on the wall next to us.
ohh.. last thing. too much vasoline will ruin detail.. buck up.. lose a little hair, just cover the important stuff like eyebrows. losing the fine hair on my face wasn't bad at all.. I wasn't even totally aware of it when it came out.. though I never got around to telling Corey or my buddy that who later told everyone about my high pain tolerance level. lol
I also used a thin layer of vasoline under it, (plus bald cap) but still lost the fine hairs on my face and it must have thinned-out my eyebrows a bit. It was cool though, I "got the hair back" in the first plaster positive we cast from it. lol, perfectly rooted in like the forehead and stuff.
I had an eye partially open, and though it DID replicate the eye, there was an air pocket which formed formed there that required him to reshape the eye slightly.. it wasn't planned for, because noone was sure how I'd hold-up in there, and whether the eye thing would be bad news or not. We let it go, thinking it was a cool bonus, not realizing that it had caused an air pocket.
Over the alganate a 2-piece shell mold was made out of plaster bandages, while I still wore the algaenate. The front half nested into the back half, with lines drawn on it to indicate a "stopping point" when putting the shells back together during casting. Once I was out of there, they thickened the shell further.
I noticed a lot of warmth from the plaster, but nothing uncomfortable. The algaenate rendered perfect detail, but created a problem on one of my earlobes.. the overall weight of the stuff tends to make your face droop a bit if it's put-on too thick, and it pulled the algaenate away from my earlobe because one of my friends who was helping to apply the stuff had put too much under my ear on that side and Corey hadn't noticed.
If you go this route, make sure you're seated comfortably and have some method of supporting your model. Since we were doing a heroic bust, it included my shoulders, and there's some shoulder defects where I moved around in the chair.. leaning actually, to offset the weight from a back injury I'd acquired the day before.
We were planning to use straws with the algaenate, but decided against it.. it turned out that they globbed the stuff on, and then carefully did the end of my nose without a problem.
While removing the plaster shell, there was a problem getting the chin past my chin.. to get the algaenate to separate from my face, I carefully blew air out of my mouth, creating an air pocket. Then they apparently lost track of what angle my chin was at and I had two grown men, trying to forcibly remove my chin along with the casting.
Per Corey, they were getting ready to go into panic mode because they weren't sure if I was still able to breathe/get enough air with all the exertions and not being against the nose holes anymore. No, I couldn't breath well, but I wasn't panicked either, so I was fine. I couldn't communicate so I basically just fought the angle they were pressing against and jutted my chin forward until it started moving and they figured out what was happening. I knew from experience that any groans I made would indicate a problem that would have them ripping their way in there, so I kept quiet to save the casting.
The shell came off, and then they cut open the back of the neck, up to the back-top of my head, and slid the algaante mold off of me.
We slushcasted the first head immediately with hydrocal, as the vasoline slowly began to break-down the alganate. Then immediately afterwards we got another partial slushcast that Corey wanted for some makeup he was doing. The second casting wasn't perfect and distorted a little bit. It was apparently good enough for what he needed though because I was back over there a few weeks later modelling an "old man from Nokia commercial" silicone mask for his portfolio. It was made from the second casting, and although it was designed to have a mouth that aligned with mine, something had drooped slightly, and I couldn't wear the mouth flush.
-------
BTW.. those rubberbands you wore? don't do that.. you'll create undercuts that could prevent you from removing the thing at all without breaking it up, not to mention distort the master mold
Also, when you do plaster bandages, be careful of doing too thin, or too thick.. too thin and they'll break, too thick and you will certainly fry, I used to have friends with various burn scars on their faces. The arm test is a decent test, but your skin there is not nearly as sensitive as the skin on your face. What's bearably hot on your arm could possibly melt the nasal passages on your face.
Apply the bandages carefully too.. prepare for mold seperation by planning one; Corey used vasoline during casting to stop the halves from joining. Local firemen should be on speed dial too in case a plan fails and some seriously delicate but strong cutting is required. Corey had the number on the wall next to us.
ohh.. last thing. too much vasoline will ruin detail.. buck up.. lose a little hair, just cover the important stuff like eyebrows. losing the fine hair on my face wasn't bad at all.. I wasn't even totally aware of it when it came out.. though I never got around to telling Corey or my buddy that who later told everyone about my high pain tolerance level. lol
Wow, quite a wall of text there, but very useful. The process you described sounds a lot like the tutorial I posted a link to earlier.
So vaseline breaks down alginate, that's good to know. I'm in need of a serious haircut anyway. I'll just ask for them to cut it really short this time, and I'll just shave my face really well. That should mean I'll only need to worry about my eyebrows.
Thanks, and I hope to be doing this very shortly. Just looking for my materials now.
So vaseline breaks down alginate, that's good to know. I'm in need of a serious haircut anyway. I'll just ask for them to cut it really short this time, and I'll just shave my face really well. That should mean I'll only need to worry about my eyebrows.
Thanks, and I hope to be doing this very shortly. Just looking for my materials now.
Deadguy
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry... Honestly, I can't recall if it was the vaseline, or the heat from the plaster that was doing that to the algenate, or it was old algenate that was used, or something. It's been a long time (eeks.. 10 years at least).
I had it all on video, because a friend was hoping to make a series of make-up tutorials he was going to get published. His idea failed, but I got a copy of that one. I can't seem to locate the VHS tape it's on right now though. It had a nice step-by-step on it, and serveral warnings and improvement suggestions "for next time".
Here's a tutorial I found that seems pretty accurate, and describes warnings/fixes/workarounds for some of the problems I noted:
http://www.theeffectslab.com/forums/viewto...b31be596eeb6f4c
No pics, but very nice description of a slightly more advanced version of what I described.
I had it all on video, because a friend was hoping to make a series of make-up tutorials he was going to get published. His idea failed, but I got a copy of that one. I can't seem to locate the VHS tape it's on right now though. It had a nice step-by-step on it, and serveral warnings and improvement suggestions "for next time".
Here's a tutorial I found that seems pretty accurate, and describes warnings/fixes/workarounds for some of the problems I noted:
http://www.theeffectslab.com/forums/viewto...b31be596eeb6f4c
No pics, but very nice description of a slightly more advanced version of what I described.
Master Chief 13
Well-Known Member
ugh, I cant imagine doing that...LOL, can you say patience
Thanks, so far for any and everyone's advice for the Lifecasting portion of this project. I'm switching gears for now till all the materials come in for that part.
Right now, I'm going to be starting the pep part of my project.
Pep, you say? In the Molded Armor section?
Yes, and once I iron out a few wrinkles in the process I'll discuss more of what I'm talking about.
I started out simple with the pep so far. I did a test hand plate from Robo, and I discovered that those that carry out this pep stuff must have nerves of steel. I'm a patient person, but my hands are only so small. I didn't like how the hand plate turned out, and besides it was still rather big. I did it at a scale of 70(Robo's Method), and it was still about 1/3 size too big. I'm 6'(or 72"), so I'm figuring about scale 60-65 should do the trick for just the handplate, I think. I'm just not going to like having all those already small folds even smaller now.
One thing I found to be very useful to help keep everything neat and clean, was this...
Found it at Walmart, and it works pretty easily. You just have to again be patient. It does take a little getting use to its application method, but one dot of glue on a tab is enough.
When, I've figured out a decent scale for the piece, and I get one assembled that I like, I'll move on to the next part of the method I have planned out. I'll also make an update when the lifecasting is completed.
Nothing warranting pictures yet, just some sore figures and a few pages of card stock scrap. Don't worry, I'll post some WIP pics when I work on the other hand plate. This one is more or less for testing.
Right now, I'm going to be starting the pep part of my project.
Pep, you say? In the Molded Armor section?
Yes, and once I iron out a few wrinkles in the process I'll discuss more of what I'm talking about.
I started out simple with the pep so far. I did a test hand plate from Robo, and I discovered that those that carry out this pep stuff must have nerves of steel. I'm a patient person, but my hands are only so small. I didn't like how the hand plate turned out, and besides it was still rather big. I did it at a scale of 70(Robo's Method), and it was still about 1/3 size too big. I'm 6'(or 72"), so I'm figuring about scale 60-65 should do the trick for just the handplate, I think. I'm just not going to like having all those already small folds even smaller now.
One thing I found to be very useful to help keep everything neat and clean, was this...
Found it at Walmart, and it works pretty easily. You just have to again be patient. It does take a little getting use to its application method, but one dot of glue on a tab is enough.
When, I've figured out a decent scale for the piece, and I get one assembled that I like, I'll move on to the next part of the method I have planned out. I'll also make an update when the lifecasting is completed.
Nothing warranting pictures yet, just some sore figures and a few pages of card stock scrap. Don't worry, I'll post some WIP pics when I work on the other hand plate. This one is more or less for testing.
Yeah, I saw some brush on stuff. Didn't really like the thought of keeping the brush from drying out or having to use both hands to open the bottle. The pen just seems like a quicker and cleaner method to me.Loess said:
Thanks for the advice though.
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I just set the brush back in the neck of the bottle when I'm not actively using it, that seals it well enough to not set. The bottle has a no-spill neck, so that when I knock it over, no glue spills. Also, the brush fibers are some polymer that the CA doesn't seem to want to adhere to, or cure on. I tried one of those Krazy Glue pens when I was first trying stuff for pep, but the brush-on was just my personal preference.
BlacRoseImmortal
Well-Known Member
Hey Magnum, as I stated before, I finally did my full body self mannequin with seram wrap and packaging tape, and I must say that it works really well. Especially my head and shoulders, they came out perfect. If your looking to do something that doesnt take much time (if your only doing your head, that is) I suggest do it the seram wrap way. its very sturdy (with a few layers of tape) and you can get extra support with expanding foam to fill the inside.
Whatever you choose to do, be safe!
Whatever you choose to do, be safe!
A polymer that the glue won't adhere to? Hmm...I think I'll check it out then. You've peeked my interest.Loess said:
How long did it take for your glue to set?
You saran wrapped your head?!BlacRoseImmortal said:Hey Magnum, as I stated before, I finally did my full body self mannequin with seram wrap and packaging tape, and I must say that it works really well. Especially my head and shoulders, they came out perfect. If your looking to do something that doesnt take much time (if your only doing your head, that is) I suggest do it the seram wrap way. its very sturdy (with a few layers of tape) and you can get extra support with expanding foam to fill the inside.
Whatever you choose to do, be safe!
I'm in no hurry for the lifecasting part. Unless the rest of the project gets caught up to that point in which case then I'll want to hurry to continue, but I'm not worried. Slow and steady wins the race you know.
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BlacRoseImmortal
Well-Known Member
LoL! The way I did my head was seran wrap around everypart EXCEPT my nose and eyes. Partly because I wanted to breathe ok and also because it was hotter than hell and I needed to leave an open area to let the sweat out. lol gross huh?
After about 7 layers of tape i had a friend cut me from my mouth down my chin and neck and i slipped out of it easily, then I just taped it back up with a few more layers of tape and filled the cavity with expanding foam, be fore the foam started to expand alot I finished the taping of the eyes and nose.
I swear it looks just like me lol.
Its cheap, easy, and no mess. So if your other ideas fail/or your not happy with the result. Give seram and tape a try :]
Good Luck!
After about 7 layers of tape i had a friend cut me from my mouth down my chin and neck and i slipped out of it easily, then I just taped it back up with a few more layers of tape and filled the cavity with expanding foam, be fore the foam started to expand alot I finished the taping of the eyes and nose.
I swear it looks just like me lol.
Its cheap, easy, and no mess. So if your other ideas fail/or your not happy with the result. Give seram and tape a try :]
Good Luck!
I might actually use this method for a separate project. *looks at avatar* :rolleyes
I had known about the ducktape dummy method for sometime. For the Mjolnir armor though, I want everything to fit perfectly. Plus, I'll be able to use this casting for other stuff later as well. *looks at avatar again*
I had known about the ducktape dummy method for sometime. For the Mjolnir armor though, I want everything to fit perfectly. Plus, I'll be able to use this casting for other stuff later as well. *looks at avatar again*
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