Spartans In 'halo: Reach'

[boryenko]

PLUS, on top of that, the SPARTAN-III program was handled jointly by the Army and the Marines. This is made clear by Kurt's change in rank to Lieutenant Commander, which is based on either the Army or Marine system of ranks. This would also go a LONG way to explaining the 'Lieutenant's' rank discrepancy.



AND ANOTHER PLUS: Halo: Reach takes place BEFORE the Onyx incident, meaning that all of Kurt's group are still available to move around as they see fit. So, it's actually very possible that this "Lieutenant" is a SPARTAN-III.

WARNING: MY POST CONTAINS SPOILERS OF GHOSTS OF ONYX!!!



1: The Spartan III Program was handled by ONI and kept a secret, only on a need to know basis. Halsey found out on Reach while it was under attack and kidnapped Kelly to bring her to Onyx. The Spartan-IIIs did not leave Onyx except to go on their final missions according to the books.



2: The Spartan-III Program was started in 2531, long before the Battle of Reach, meaning you are not going to be Kurt.



My bet is ONI took a Spartan-III because Noble Team lost one of theirs and made the Spartan-III their new "number 6".

 

[Spartan 051]

Halo Wars had the Hornet and Hawk and was 20 years prior.

ahh though it does make since why there is a new transport looks like its bungie take on the osprey to lift heavy units in a out while the hornet can only move 2 spartans



edit: put a side note



battle of reach August 30, 2552 - September 23, 2552



battle of onyx October 31-November 3, 2552

 

[Sithslayer78]

Well, Its not entirely impossible to have multiple spartan programs going on. I mean, The Spartan IIIs were going on during the timeline of the other books, perhaps there might be multiple copycat programs like Ackerson set up. Also, It's not entirely impossible for ONI to have "whisked" away Spartan IIIs From Pegasi Delta during the assault or a multitude of other places throughout their lives. After all, ONI did "extract" Kurt from a highly hazardous environment...

Also, Even though this game is called Halo: REACH doesn't mean it's set solely on reach. The Book Halo: Fall of reach was set on different planets so might the game Halo: Reach...

It is also unfair to assume we have all the information, like others have said, if we did, that would put the developers in a real squeeze...

EDIT: Of course, Spartan IIs OR IIIs for that matter couldn't just say: "hey, ima go join Noble Team, TTYL LOL GTG CYA" But then again, thats kinda ONI's job now, isn't it?

 

[Isaac 039]

I would bet my life its not a Spartan III.

Lets get back on the topic of the other spartans, not just Lt.

 

[kupokitty]

This has probably already been mentioned, but Jorge mentions that the Lieutenant was a survivor from a planet called "Pegasi"



Pegasi (or at least Pegasi Delta) was one of the planets that was assaulted by the SPARTAN-III Program.



Only two SPARTAN-IIIs were known to survive.



PLUS, on top of that, the SPARTAN-III program was handled jointly by the Army and the Marines. This is made clear by Kurt's change in rank to Lieutenant Commander, which is based on either the Army or Marine system of ranks. This would also go a LONG way to explaining the 'Lieutenant's' rank discrepancy.



AND ANOTHER PLUS: Halo: Reach takes place BEFORE the Onyx incident, meaning that all of Kurt's group are still available to move around as they see fit. So, it's actually very possible that this "Lieutenant" is a SPARTAN-III.

I'll say this AGAIN. THERE ARE FRICKIN' LIEUTENANT JUNIOR GRADES, LIEUTENANTS, AND LIEUTENANT COMMANDERS IN THE NAVY.

 

[Isaac 039]

And the spartan III's couldn't just "move around", they had to remain on onyx.

 

[Underdogg13]

Let's get this one thing clear guys, the Lieutenant is not an S-III until proven by an official source.

 

[fairly sane]

Spartan III's can NOT WEAR MARK V POWER ARMOR AS THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE AUGMENTS THE II'S DID!

The Spartan-III's can easily wear a Mark V power suit. The only reason they wear SPI armor is because it is cheaper then the Mark V. And yes they do have the proper augements to wear it. I pretty sure this was covered in an earlier post.

 

[Isaac 039]

I'm reading Onyx, it says they can't, unless i misread...i don't think i'm rwong

 

[P40 Warhawk]

If Bungie is going to stick with the canon, then there is 100% no way he can be a S-III. With what was given to us in Onyx it just cannot work out.

 

[Spartan137]

@Isaac

Yes, you are wrong. Sorry to be blunt. The reason the S-III program had SPI armor was because it was cheaper then the MJOLNIR series, which I have no doubt it was. And when you're training 1,500+ SPARTANs, you want it cheap, especially since it's even more of a secret then the S-II program. The SPARTAN-IIIs had the exact same augmentation chems that the S-IIs did, plus a few extra. I have absolutely no doubt that an S-III could drive MJOLNIR armor just as well as an S-II.



@Queen,

Yes, you are right. Lieutenants CAN be Naval. HOWEVER, Lieutenant is SEVERAL grades above Master Chief Petty Officer. John-117 was the highest ranked SPARTAN-IIA of the UNSC, and was the leader of the SPARTAN-IIAs. If the SPARTAN-IIB program is anything like the IIA program, then they'll follow through. Likely, the cause of the FNG being a Lieutenant is because of his standing with ONI. Like Carter-259 said, the ONI didn't want him reading the Lieutenant's file. Question is, why? The SPARTAN-II's were very tight nit, almost always knowing the whereabouts of their brethren. So, my take on this is that the Lieutenant is INDEED an S-III, as even Dr. Halsey had no idea the program existed.



@Boryenko

I wouldn't say that you'd be playing as Kurt. Even though he, too, is a Lieutenant (Commander), I just don't see it. Now, as for time-purposes, it is very possible that it is a S-III. S-III Beta Company was activated in 2539, and by 2545, the S-III Beta company successfully destroyed their target, at the cost of the entire platoon save Tom-B292 and Lucy-B091. If this Lieutenant WERE a S-III, I'd put serious money on it being one of those two.



I'm going to agree with Underdogg13 here. Until we know for sure, the Lieutenant may as well be a 3 year old girl. We just don't know. All we can do is speculate.



I personally want to know about Jorge-052. His armor makes me think he's either a CQB or an EOD specialist. In the official Reach poster, he's holding what LOOKS like a big gun (Possibly an M-247 .50 Caliber Mounted Gun), which would indicate a heavy-weapons discipline. So we've got three separate possibilities on what he is.



And finally, I REALLY want to know about that Hellspartan. Definitely looks to me like he enjoys killing with knives, ruthless brutality, and painful deaths. I can't imagine that visor being particularly easy to see out of, though.

 

[boryenko]

@Boryenko

I wouldn't say that you'd be playing as Kurt. Even though he, too, is a Lieutenant (Commander), I just don't see it. Now, as for time-purposes, it is very possible that it is a S-III. S-III Beta Company was activated in 2539, and by 2545, the S-III Beta company successfully destroyed their target, at the cost of the entire platoon save Tom-B292 and Lucy-B091. If this Lieutenant WERE a S-III, I'd put serious money on it being one of those two.

[quote name='Halopedia']

She was just about to be classified as "unfit for duty," and reassigned to ONI's psych branch for "psychological evaluation." Kurt-051 rescued her from this fate, along with Tom-B292. Together with Tom, Lucy, and Chief Mendez, Kurt was able to train a third generation of SPARTAN-IIIs, Gamma Company. Lucy, along with Tom, stayed at Camp Currahee and helped in the training until 2552. At that point, the Battle of Onyx occurred. Lucy fought valiantly alongside her brothers and sisters, defending the entry to the Shield World, until she was ordered to retreat into its safety by Kurt [5]. She and Tom were the last to go through, and had insisted on remaining behind with Kurt, who gave his life to save Dr. Halsey, Mendez and the other

SPARTAN-IIIs including some of the SPARTAN-IIs. At most recent knowledge, she is still alive inside the Micro Dyson Sphere.

[/quote]

That is about Lucy after Operation: Torpedo. Tom and Lucy both trained Spartan-IIIs until the Battle of Onyx.

 

[Malechei]

I gotta back Queen up real quick. The reason the rank thing keeps coming up is because it keeps getting screwed up. Lieutenants Junior Grade and Lieutenants are addressed as Lieutenant. Lieutenant Commanders are addressed as Commander.



The officer ranks typically break down like this:



Navy

O1 - Ensign

O2 - Lieutenant, Junior Grade

O3 - Lieutenant

O4 - Lieutenant Commander

O5 - Commander

O6 - Captain



MOST other services

O1 - Second Lieutenant

O2 - First Lieutenant

O3 - Captain

O4 - Major

O5 - Lieutenant Colonel

O6 - Colonel



Very important to keep this in mind when discussing rank.



The reason for this post....

I'll say this AGAIN. THERE ARE FRICKIN' LIEUTENANT JUNIOR GRADES, LIEUTENANTS, AND LIEUTENANT COMMANDERS IN THE NAVY.

... is because it was implied earlier that Lieutenant Commander was only an Army rank. In fact, it's not an Army rank at all. Lieutenant Commander is ONLY a Navy rank.

 

[Belakor]

Just thought I'd drop this in here for anyone interested:



Reach Sniper Reference

They're all fairly similar photos so far (they were captured in sequence at 30fps) but I'll have some different ones up soonish, they'll all be lightened up a little as well.



A couple of observations that may have been spotted already. The sniper seems to have some sort of extra add-on on the front of the chest perm piece, there's also the extra rounds on the left bicep in that interesting looking blue rig, and the other thing I've been staring at is that black pipe on the left side of the chest/shoulder strap... almost looks like a drinking tube/camelback, how likely that is I don't know.

I'm thinking it wouldn't be hard to modify a Recon helmet to do this one... more of a reason to mould mine I suppose

 

[DjLoki13]

Just thought I'd drop this in here for anyone interested:



Reach Sniper Reference

They're all fairly similar photos so far (they were captured in sequence at 30fps) but I'll have some different ones up soonish, they'll all be lightened up a little as well.



A couple of observations that may have been spotted already. The sniper seems to have some sort of extra add-on on the front of the chest perm piece, there's also the extra rounds on the left bicep in that interesting looking blue rig, and the other thing I've been staring at is that black pipe on the left side of the chest/shoulder strap... almost looks like a drinking tube/camelback, how likely that is I don't know.

I'm thinking it wouldn't be hard to modify a Recon helmet to do this one... more of a reason to mould mine I suppose

Teehee I think your on to something Belakor. He looks like he is all decked out to be stationed for a while as a sniper. He has the camo thing on his shoulders/back and the extra ammo. And I would have to second your opinion that the black tube looks like the drinking end of a camel back. Im staring at mine and the pic side by side and I see the similarity!! I like his helmet to. It reminds me of a fox like with fox ears and such...haha just my stupid mind. Anyways!



-Loki

 

[RaspyOrangutan]

That's a quote from an article on Team Xbox's website, and they're not all that of a reliable source. Read post #60 on page 2, I posted a link to the article there.

Sorry man, didn't spot the hyperlink when I was looking to see if it was already up, I was mostly looking for mention of the S.IIIs.



Abit of divergence (I'm totally stumped on what to say regards to what mark of Spartan they are) from the current topic, but I do like how they've done the BR. They've really portrayed the whole prototype angle well by cutting off some of the notable physical features like the carry handle rails.

(borrowed from your photostream Belakor, hope you don't mind.)



(Whats the bet someone's already mentioned that, and I'm just repeating things again?)



Just a little thing that's annoying me, people keep saying Jorge, but I always thought it was spelt George.

 

[Cadet]

Just a little thing that's annoying me, people keep saying Jorge, but I always thought it was spelt George.

If you watch the official subtitled trailer on Bungie.net, it is spelled Jorge.

 

[project003]

ehh, i have issues with the new mark V, the chest and everything is acceptible, but the helmet.... i don't like it. it dosen't seem like the mark V that we know and love, especially after bungie DID in fact update it when Halo 3 came out. (multiplayer variant) you've got to give me more proof that that is standard Mark V and not any of this new stuff, i'm already having some dificulty trying to understand why the spartans are different colors.

 

[Spartan137]

That is about Lucy after Operation: Torpedo. Tom and Lucy both trained Spartan-IIIs until the Battle of Onyx.

What I think you're getting at there is whether or not Tom and Lucy did anything beside Gamma company. Here's my response:



We only know of, I don't know, 12 seperate battles John-117 was engaged in? Now, is that all he did? Certainly not. That's just what we know.



My point is that theres no indication that training Gamma company was ALL Tom and Lucy did. I'm sure they were pulled by ONI on seperate Ops many times.

I gotta back Queen up real quick. The reason the rank thing keeps coming up is because it keeps getting screwed up. Lieutenants Junior Grade and Lieutenants are addressed as Lieutenant. Lieutenant Commanders are addressed as Commander.



The officer ranks typically break down like this:



Navy

O1 - Ensign

O2 - Lieutenant, Junior Grade

O3 - Lieutenant

O4 - Lieutenant Commander

O5 - Commander

O6 - Captain



MOST other services

O1 - Second Lieutenant

O2 - First Lieutenant

O3 - Captain

O4 - Major

O5 - Lieutenant Colonel

O6 - Colonel



Very important to keep this in mind when discussing rank.



The reason for this post....





... is because it was implied earlier that Lieutenant Commander was only an Army rank. In fact, it's not an Army rank at all. Lieutenant Commander is ONLY a Navy rank.

Yeah, and that's true. Maybe I might have earlier, but I'm not going to say that Lieutenant is an Army rank (it's also a Marine rank, too).



My real problem with the FNG being an Lt. is because thats several grades above what John-117 was, and he was the highest ranked SPARTAN-IIA. Like I said, if the IIB program is anything like the IIA program, then the FNGs rank must be a tag-along from ONI, making him a Spook, and quite possibly an S-III, as they were so heavily classified. Soldiers often recieve temporary ranks which only have a limited life, so who's to say that this FNG isn't in reality a CPO?



Who knows. Hopefully more literature will be released that explains it.

 

[Ruze789]

I just looked up Bungie's stance on canon since most of this thread seems to be "well this and this can't happen or be possible because this book said so"



[quote name='hbo']

Hey Folks,



Bry has hit the nail on the head:



: Halo 'canon' can quite easily be viewed in a similar way as the kind of canon

: system in place with Star Wars.

: A certain hierarchy of priority.

: In other words, different levels of canon where the higher levels will

: override the lower ones whenever there is a contradiction.



Everything that Bungie has ever approved is canonical. But even then, certain things trump others. In order of canonical influence:



- The games rank first

- Published materials (books, comics, soundtrack liner notes etc.) rank second

- Marketing and PR materials third



And there's one codicil: the more recent items trump the older ones. So, for example, if some aspect of Halo 3's fiction contradicted Halo 2's, Halo 3's would be the gold standard.



Bungie doesn't like to retcon (i.e., deliberately change previously established facts), but sometimes it's necessary. Take for example the issue of the number of human worlds. The truth about the "800+" number? That was made up by a non-Bungie employee and never approved by us before the Halo: CE promotional website went live.

...



- Joseph (Staten)

[/quote]



Basically whatever Bungie decides to do in one of their games trumps everything else including previous games.

They approve what is written in fiction, making sure it fits into their Halo world at that time, but they are not bound to uphold what is written by others if it needs to change for one of their own projects.