Vacuum Formed Armor *update : Mk Vi Handplates*

[ARKOokami]

Ok, so I've been working on some stuff recently that I havn't really publicily announced, but a few people know about.... yadda yadda yadda.

So I've been building SKG and Crew's Weta ODST armor, which are superb, guys. And I decided that I want some more substantial armor than our usual medium of paper and fiberglass. I also didn't want to spend gobs of money on some rubber molds and poured plastic. It's good for high detail stuff, but most ODST plates have less detail then a sheet of ironed rice paper.

I went a different route, one only attempted by a very small number of people, namely Rube and Vos. I decided to vacuum form.

At this point in time, I've fully bondo'd the left main chest piece and the center main chest piece, and fiberglassed the right main chest piece and the two shoulder blade plates. I hope to finish bondo'ing those pieces sometime within the week, depending on my plans. I also have the shin in the works.

I've almost completed my vacuum table/box as well. All I have left is the frame for the plastic, the pegboard for multiple pieces, and some cleaning to do on the box. After that, I'm ready to go! Roughly ten sheets of High Impact Polystyrene are sitting in my room, waiting for the forming work to begin.

Potential Pros of Vac Forming:
Ease of reproducing parts
Cheap cost
Tough pieces

Potential Cons of Vac Forming:
Low detail vs rubber molding
Can only cast parts under a certain size (16"x20" ATM)
Have to cut up the molds for certain parts

Update 1-10-09:

Finished the table and 1'x1' frames! I can do some light-weight forming now! I ran three forms, one of Link's Magnum, one of the L+R ODST chest pieces, and one of the center ODST chest piece.

Pics:

I even got a video for all of you! Enjoy!

Thanks goes to my dad for helping me with the table.

Constructive criticism only, please.

When are you gonna do something with those pieces?

 

[Spartan137]

When are you gonna do something with those pieces?

Eh... I don't really know anymore.

It turns out my former generates enough suck to collapse pep pieces, fiberglass and all... So I'm currently looking into alternatives.

I've got a plan worked up, but I'm going to let it develop more before I say anything.

 

[ZONKRE]

loooking good! I'm actually thinking of doing some vaccuforming now thanks to your research... Just some questions though, how strong do the pieces made from .040 come out? Do you plan to reinforce them with fiberglass? And what temp. do you pre-heat your oven to?




Zonkre

 

[Liamthedevastator]

You know I had an idea with regards to getting the detail that you want but the strength that you need in these pieces. I don't have much knowledge in this area, but i'm thinking it should work.

Do your pulls with the thinner plastics to get maximum detail (not necessarily strength) and then just slosh around some plastic that they use for mold making inside to thicken it out. Conceivably it should work (any molding pros, condemn/condone this?) and will bond to the plastic, plus you won't be paying that much because you're really just paying for the plastic, not the silicon or tonnes of clay to make walls etc.

Yes? No? Maybe?

MAINTENANT EN FRANÇAIS! Oui? Non? Peut-être?

 

[Spartan137]

Note to self: Watch own thread

loooking good! I'm actually thinking of doing some vaccuforming now thanks to your research... Just some questions though, how strong do the pieces made from .040 come out? Do you plan to reinforce them with fiberglass? And what temp. do you pre-heat your oven to?
Zonkre

Pieces in .040 came out pretty tough. I wouldn't build a car out of them, but they'll hold during general convention-going activities. I'm still debating if it'd be worth it to harden the pieces.

I set my oven to 385 F, but it'll depend on what plastic your using.

You know I had an idea with regards to getting the detail that you want but the strength that you need in these pieces. I don't have much knowledge in this area, but i'm thinking it should work.

Do your pulls with the thinner plastics to get maximum detail (not necessarily strength) and then just slosh around some plastic that they use for mold making inside to thicken it out. Conceivably it should work (any molding pros, condemn/condone this?) and will bond to the plastic, plus you won't be paying that much because you're really just paying for the plastic, not the silicon or tonnes of clay to make walls etc.

Yes? No? Maybe?

MAINTENANT EN FRANÇAIS! Oui? Non? Peut-être?

I've finished some pulls with .040, and I have to say, they came out really good! And your not kidding when they say cheap, either!

Pictures of Mk VI Handplates. Formed over CNC'd pieces by Vrogy

More pictures as I get 'em.

 

[boryenko]

Pretty cool looking hand plates.

 

[Spartan137]

Pretty cool looking hand plates.

Thank you much!

EDIT:

Just got my new handplates painted and attached to their gloves.

They came out really well, in my opinion.

 

[crackhead09]

i agree well done!

 

[GutterGrowl]

Looks good man!

 

[FinAeros]

Looking pretty good, although to prevent the moulds from collapsing you may need to either rig a diffuser plate to draw a little air on the side so that you don't have such a high suction that it crushes 'em.

Also, I will echo the safety concerns. PVC or PS both can give off some pretty gnarly fumes, either Chlorine in the case of PVC (either as Cl2 or a radicalized Chlorine ion) or some other nasty stuff for PS (benzene, plasticizers, and whatever crosslinking agents may be used). You'd need a Chlorine/Organic filter for a mask, and probably ought to consider getting it out of your kitchen if you're doing it a lot.

 

[just me]

Spartan137, about you saying vacuum-formed armor pieces being low detail,
Those handplates look quite HD to me...

JustMe

 

[Spartan137]

Looking pretty good, although to prevent the moulds from collapsing you may need to either rig a diffuser plate to draw a little air on the side so that you don't have such a high suction that it crushes 'em.

Also, I will echo the safety concerns. PVC or PS both can give off some pretty gnarly fumes, either Chlorine in the case of PVC (either as Cl2 or a radicalized Chlorine ion) or some other nasty stuff for PS (benzene, plasticizers, and whatever crosslinking agents may be used). You'd need a Chlorine/Organic filter for a mask, and probably ought to consider getting it out of your kitchen if you're doing it a lot.

Yeah, respirators have been chalked up on the list of things I have to get within the near future, but so far, I havn't been doing large amounts of work with the former. Plastic is never in for more then 3 minutes, and theres a good 10 minutes between heat. I think the risk for the time being is low, as the plastic never actually burns or melts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(just me(no one else) @ Mar 12 2009, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Spartan137, about you saying vacuum-formed armor pieces being low detail,
Those handplates look quite HD to me...

JustMe</div>

Maybe my definition of HD is insanely high !

In all reality, alot of the detail level depends on how formable a specific piece is. Links M6 was NEVER designed for vacuum forming, and doesn't pull with much detail, but still had enough to be recognizable. Other factors involve the temperature the plastic is brought to, and the thickness (which is linked directly to the strenght of the pull).

My MK VI handplates actually came out really well, and are rather durable (considering I wore them for 3 days in Chicago for the Regional FIRST Tournament).

Bump for updated main page.

 

[DerKraken]

It turns out my former generates enough suck to collapse pep pieces, fiberglass and all... So I'm currently looking into alternatives.

Chances are you've found a solution to this already, but in case you haven't...

Have you thought about filling the inside cavity with expanding foam? That will give you a non-hollow base and should help with your collapsing issues.

 

[CPU64]

Either you have a magic vacuum, or you're not doing the fiberglass part correctly.
I don't think you could make a vacuum table strong enough to crunch a correctly fiberglassed master.

 

[Spartan137]

Chances are you've found a solution to this already, but in case you haven't...

Have you thought about filling the inside cavity with expanding foam? That will give you a non-hollow base and should help with your collapsing issues.

That's what I'm planning on doing once I get these projects in gear again. I've got about 6 cans of the stuff sitting around.

Either you have a magic vacuum, or you're not doing the fiberglass part correctly.
I don't think you could make a vacuum table strong enough to crunch a correctly fiberglassed master.

Oddly enough, I'm using a house vac. Not even a shop vacuum. It could be crummy fiberglass work, but it might be that I'm laying the molds on top of the 2" hole the air is drawn through. Once the plastic has formed, the mold might be sealed to the table and not allow any air to escape. I don't think that fiberglass can resist a near-vacuum.

 

[bluelotus82]

From what I see, I think you could be missing out on better forming because your table is too big and your plastic sheets are actually sitting above the frame level when you push it down. You have tried it but I haven't so I am not 100% on it. I plan to build a table about 19x19 for a 20x20 sheet, and the frame will not be touching the top of the table which makes the plastic sit more flat on top of the table. and reduce suction loss and loss of finer details in the mold piece.

That's just my idea on the vacuum-form thing. If the frame is sitting on top of the table, your plastic will not be truely all the way flat maybe? I wonder... have you been able to form sharp edges with good detail? Try using a hair blower on low heat or a heatgun on low heat while waiting for the piece to form. Blowing at the areas that needs to be sucked down more. That is what I heard on some other sites talking about vacuum-forming.

 

[Spartan137]

From what I see, I think you could be missing out on better forming because your table is too big and your plastic sheets are actually sitting above the frame level when you push it down. You have tried it but I haven't so I am not 100% on it. I plan to build a table about 19x19 for a 20x20 sheet, and the frame will not be touching the top of the table which makes the plastic sit more flat on top of the table. and reduce suction loss and loss of finer details in the mold piece.

That's just my idea on the vacuum-form thing. If the frame is sitting on top of the table, your plastic will not be truely all the way flat maybe? I wonder... have you been able to form sharp edges with good detail? Try using a hair blower on low heat or a heatgun on low heat while waiting for the piece to form. Blowing at the areas that needs to be sucked down more. That is what I heard on some other sites talking about vacuum-forming.

No, even when my plastic is resting on top of the table, I've gotten near perfect 90 degree angles just from a single suction run.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vrogy/3410295080/ (On Vrogy's Flickr)

It does help, though, and your right, to go over them again with a heat gun with the pump running. It seems to do a good job of perfecting the pieces.