What do you mean I can't bring my weapon???

Discussion in 'Conventions and Prop Parties' started by FANGS, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. FANGS

    FANGS Commanding Officer Division Staff

    Afternoon all!

    As some of you have experienced, or are starting to hear about, more and more conventions are saying no to any weapons of any kind. Unfortunately, this is the reality of the world we live in. And whether we agree with the decision or even understand it, we must understand that each group needs to make some hard decisions based on a lot more facts than Halo people look silly if they don't have weapons.

    Your costume is still a fantastic costume even without your weapon. Does it feel weird not having it? Yes, of course it does. Did you work really hard on it and are now utterly disappointed that you can't bring it? Yes, definitely! It sucks.

    I am going to, however, ask that all of you please respect the decision of the conventions on this matter. Calling them out on it and telling them how disappointed you are in their decision is going to do nothing to change the situation and everything to make us as a group look, well.....whiney.

    As some of you may or may not know, it was widely publicized that Lucas Films gave us in the 501st the direction that we could not use weapons of any kind at any event for a specific period of time. After awhile it was relaxed to anything that looked like a firearm and now it is back to business as usual. It was huge news even being talked about on news programs. LFL did what they felt was respectful and proper given the current situation around the world. For the premier of The Force Awakens you could tell who were the actors hired by LFL and who were 501st because none of the 501st had weapons. I thought this was the oddest thing. Either everyone has them or no one has them. And then it was explained to be my someone much, MUCH wiser. I'm hoping that sharing this wisdom with you will help settle the ruffled feathers I know these decisions are causing.

    Certainly we can all say that if someone wanted to get in with a weapon to a convention it would be ridiculously easy. I've never been to one that had metal detectors or frisk searches or bag checks. So how to keeping all of us without weapons help that. In short, it doesn't. So....WTF FANGS....were is this tidbit of wisdom you claim??

    People are currently in a state of uncertainty. And in some respects, that uncertainty leads to panicked decisions/reactions to something they might not otherwise have given a second look. Weapons of any kind can bring about that very real sense of panic. So who is this really unfortunate decision protecting?? YOU. It's protecting all of you. The last thing anyone wants is for some panicked personality to see someone with a weapon, freak out and do something that may harm that weapon carrying person thinking that they are saving the day, when really all they have done is injured someone carrying something made out of foam.

    So please, I know it's really unfortunate but let's just comply without complaining and hope for the best in a turn around eventually in that decision. Let's work together on coming up with ways to pose etc. that doesn't require the weapon yet still looks badass.

    If your local con has not yet made this ruling, please, please, PLEASE ensure that you comply with whatever rules they do have about props and weapons. Carry your weapon from your car to the event completely concealed. And do not point your weapon at people, especially children. The 405th can and should be a shinning example of what a really great club can be, and part of that means working with these cons, even when their decisions seem ridiculous.

    P.S. I'm not going to pretend that I know every reason that every con has made this decision bases it on. However, if even one of those reasons is that it's keeping all of you safe from mistaken identity, I'm all for it. It's important to me that you all are safe at these cons.
    MepeS11 likes this.
  2. peterthethinker


    Frankly then lets not go to the cons ( IF we can help it) that are not open to our cosplay.

    I agree , Why fight the flow.. when we can go else where...... Here in my neck of the woods we have a dozen cons/events to go to . missing a few is not the end of the world

    Conversly this is why Iam slowly parsing my UNSC stuff and building Covi stuiff... carbine is on my short list .
  3. wolverine

    wolverine Jr Member

    Newest example: gamescom 2016 in Cologne... Just read this a few minutes ago on www.gamersglobal.de:

    "Besucher der gamescom 2016, die in diesem Jahr vom 17. bis 21. August wieder in Köln stattfindet, müssen mit deutlich längeren Wartezeiten beim Eintritt rechnen. Die Sicherheits- und Präventionsmaßnahmen wurden aufgrund des Amoklaufs in München sowie der Terroranschläge in Ansbach und Würzburg noch einmal verstärkt. An den Eingängen wird es zu Körper- und Taschenkontrollen für alle Besucher, Aussteller und Medienvertreter kommen. Besucher werden gebeten, Taschen und Rucksäcke, sowie Gegenstände aller Art, die nicht zwingend für den Besuch der Messe benötigt werden, zu Hause zu lassen. Die Sicherheitskontrollen starten ab 07:00 Uhr früh. Cosplayer dürfen weiter in Kostümen an der Messe teilnehmen, jedoch sind Waffennachbildungen und waffenähnliche Elemente nicht zugelassen. Walking Acts mit Waffennachbildungen der Aussteller, wie die Darstellung eines nordkoreanischen Besatzungssoldaten aus dem Spiel Homefront - The Revolution auf der gamescom 2015 (siehe Teaserbild), wird es auch weiterhin geben."


    Anyone who will be walking around with a prop-weapon will be an actor, recruited and payed by one of the exhibitors... And: They'll examine your bodies and bags at the entrance. Visitors are asked to leave anything at home, they won't absolutely need inside to reduce check-in-times...

    Edit: Maybe anyone who is allowed could post / quote / link this info within the euro-gamescom-thread - mightbe helpful for the guys... I just tried and could not... ;)
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2017
    peterthethinker likes this.
  4. CommanderPalmer


    Oh I hope it isn't because of me.

    I myself understand that and don't have problems with that.

    Concerning gamescom, people (and I among them) have rather this problem that they knew all along, yet decided to share the info literally 2 weeks before gamescom starts.

    Events in Europe aren't happening since yesterday but a lot longer, so our problem is they could have said something earlier so people wouldn't have been working on the props they suddenly learned they can't bring with them anyway.

    wolverine, check Gamescom's official entry, they have it clearer. Also, Gamescom banned literally all props. NERF blasters, toys, lightsabers or even magic wands - anything. Here is their response:

    "auch Nachbildungen - unabhängig von Größe und Material - von Peitschen, Stäben, Schwertern, Lanzen, Pfeil & Bogen, Ketten, Gewehren, Pistolen, Messern, Äxten etc. sind nicht erlaubt. "

    Otherwise, concerning gamescom it isn't only about props - they have said you are not even allowed to come with a backpack, so basically you have to buy their drinks which are overly expensive, so people are guessing they'll have to handle a lot of dehydrated people this year.
  5. Chernobyl


    Conventions sometimes have staff on standby with water coolers to ensure that this won't happen - the last thing they need is bad publicity from costumers passing out. Regardless, this is a shame.
  6. Spartan55


    I'm lucky i read another post like this because i just about shelled out $150 us plus postage to Australia for a halo 4 sniper replica
    Now I'm just making a scattshot with a super bright orange leds every where (to get the orange glowing effect from the game)
    pluse I figured that if they whant orange on the weapon so I'll give them orange
    ps if you can't tell I'm fed up with people being perfidy of a gun that if you look at and don't get scared you relize IT'S NOY REAL
    peterthethinker likes this.
  7. wolverine

    wolverine Jr Member

    I guess, that's what was meant with "weapon-like items"... ;)

    I get their intention behind that decision, I guess. The people are frightened and the chances for false alarms are high. But not allowing "Harry Potter" to bring his magic wand is truly overdone... :eek
  8. Mesh


    uhhhhhh, I don't know what any of that means so I'm just going to nod and say yes

    Mstruvmgc and Dirtdives like this.
  9. Spartan55


    Thats way over the top harrys broom stick i can sorrt of understand ( by using it like a baseball bat) but his wand a small stick that not even sharp thats off the charts
    hopefully this all dies down soon
  10. kaween


    There's no point in discussing the decission an organisation makes as "what is done is done" and you simply have to accept their rules. Trying to enter while breaking these rules is stupid, selfish and can't ever be accepted.
    If you do and "they" get you, they should come down as hard on you as they can.

    However, we can speculate about the true reasons for the restrictions.

    The decission at GC for example is a very dubious one.

    Their reasoning is off.
    Their timing is _way_ off.

    For me, this decission is mainly financially inspired than anything else : it has little to nothing to do with "a sense of secruity" and I'll explain why.

    1) GC picks up the "recent events in Germany" as reason. If that would truly have been the reason, I would have understood this change of rules if it would have been done directly after the events that are supposed to have caused this. But they didn't. They waited -litterally- weeks to go through with them, and deliberatly waited till 2 weeks before the even to make them public.
    Why ?
    Probably because they're afraid it would hurt ticket sales and give disgrunted people the chance and time to organize and ask their entrance money back.
    Is this just a hunch ? Maybe, but ...

    2) "...to avoid little childeren to be afraid"-reasoning. I'm sorry, but the sales of millitary-looking-toys has _not_ declined in Germany since the recent events.
    So if that's such a big concern, the _parents_ of those kids don't seem to mind now do they ? I'll come back to this later.

    3) I'm pretty sure that in terms of ensurance ect ect, the organisation faced some stiff new rules coming for the ensurance companies that they use. No doubt, these would have demanded far more strickt rules AND -here's the thing- a lot more of security personel. Which -contrary to what many people think- does not come cheap. But would it be feasable to do it ? Sure it would.

    As an example, I'm looking back at FACTS 2016 Spring. This was about 3 or 4 weeks after the horrendous bombing of the Brussels Airport.
    At some point, I thought, with a country in full stage 4 alert and heavy armed soldiers in the streets and on full standby, the organisation of FACTS would have pulled the plug completly on the event.
    They could have. Nobody would have argued, everybody would have understood.
    But they didn't.

    What they did was put in _more_ security personel, they did make the rules more strickt, and weapons check was far more intense compared to other years. Yet, there was no real feeling of restrictions.
    Why not ?
    Because the organisation had taken measures to minimze the risks.
    Scifi oriented guns ? No problem.
    But also real looking heavy assault weapons were allowed, as long as they met certain criteria (no metal, no airsoft, ...).
    Space Marnies were still holding their M41a's. The Payday crews where still running around with their shotguns and whatever. 501th's were still holding their blasters.

    Everybody was checked and those checks were very well organized, leading to virtually no delays during entrance.

    One could argue there's no comparing something like GC to something like FACTS. But with anything between 30.000 and 40.000 attendees (depending on which figures you can believe) this wasn't a small con either.

    So what is the difference ?
    Are Belgians more lacking in terms of security ?
    Didn't they take the threat seriously ?
    Are we all just airheaded dips**ts ?

    Or was this a sign of an organisation who's determined to do whatever is needed to up the security for everyone and does _not_ agree with the idea that the actions of the monsters in this world should be allowed to do exactly what they want to achieve : making _us_ (not cosplayers, I mean people in general) to start living in fear and "adapt" to the "new conditions" these monsters are trying to create ?

    You decide.

    Everyone is free to answer that question for themselves.

    But I for one remember a _lot_ of childeren on the FACTS event. I remember having taken a _lot_ of pictures with.
    I remember having offered my prop gun to a LOT of kids for the pic with Mr. Spartan.
    And I don't remember a SINGLE parent/adult or kid that wasn't eager to do so.

    So "to avoid childeren to be afraid" as reason ? Oh, come on. PLEASE. That's total BS and they know it.

    The idea that going THROUGH with the event is a clear "up yours" aimed at the fanatics of the world was felt everwhere on the event : when people, young families with kids, were asked about the recent events and if they weren't afraid to come to the event in front of the news camera's, the answer was always something like "no, because if we stop acting normally, those fanatics will have indeed won".
    And that feeling was worth it, for everybody.

    Which is why I think that above all, this is a first and foremost a financially inspired decission.

    Would I still go to GC if I didn't pay for the tickets like months ago ? Yes, I probably would. But NOT for the event itself, but mainly to hook up with the other guys and girls of the 405th for a day.
    Would I still go if the prospect of meeting the others wasn't there ? Nope.
    Would I go in suit if this rule was prompted weeks ago or would have gone through the trouble of prepping a cosplay for the kids for GC ? Hell no.

    In times like these -like so many poeple seem to call it-, what is needed, first and foremost, is the clear signal we will not be broken, we will not be frightened into submission.

    Whatever your stance on the events is : what happens here is quite the opposite.

    And more then everything else, that is worrying and a reason to be sad.
  11. Spartan55


    Well said, well said indeed I couldn't agree more their is only one thing I through you missed out which was... ( expanding on the kids being scared part)
    wean peploe go to these conventions they 90% (don't quote me on that) of the time know what to aspect and even if they do not they should at lest know that some of the games/comics featured are violent if some way. Also finally have you ever met a little boy (or girl just never seen any little girls at cons) that dose not like to play pretend soldiers with their friends?
    but as kaween said what's done is done no point in sulking over it.
    peterthethinker likes this.
  12. CommanderPalmer


    ^ this, totally agree and my exact thoughts
  13. FANGS

    FANGS Commanding Officer Division Staff

    What we've noticed locally is that for a couple of years they came down pretty hard. Not a total ban but props and weapons were heavily checked and lots were weeded out. For a silly example, we weren't allowed to bring in our Harry Potter Quidditch brooms. Imagine a whole bunch of Quidditch players without their brooms. ~eye rolling~ I saw a weapons guy check a kids bow that had a string on it that was so lose he couldn't shoot anything from it.

    But, we rode the wave, quietly, and let it come full circle. Now we as the 501st are worked with separately because we listened and complied without complaint. That is my hope for our group as well. Cons listen and watch. They really do. As we grow and as we grow a larger presence at conventions - like having a booth and panels etc., we will have a much better standing if we start out cooperative.

    Certainly you all have a choice as to whether or not you go to a convention if they have a no weapons rule. However, I say you're missing out on a good time over a rule that more than likely will continue to evolve. Keep in mind, this rule is not specifically against us. It's applied to all con goers, so don't take it personally. We aren't the only group with weapons
  14. Dracosfire83


    This is not true. A few years ago a semi local HUGE sportsman show (biggest in the state) decided along with the mayor to ban all guns at the event. Within a week of the ban getting out 95% of the vendor's and guest speakers pulled out and with a little more prodding by the masses the entire show was shut down. The short version is the Mayor after causing millions in losses for the city was not re-elected and the shows executives where shown the door. The show came back two years later with a new backer and with record setting attendance and revenue.
  15. CPO mendez

    CPO mendez

    Huh, this is some unfortunate news. But i always thought that the Prop checkers (the best example of which would be RTX since it moved into the RTX convention center in 2012) were the solution to this problem. it was a table of official (or at least official LOOKING) people that you'd go up to, hand them your prop, have it inspected and deemed safe, then have it tagged with a high-visibility neon orange tag that the guardians (and security) could easily spot. and if you didn't have that tag, you were directed to the prop inspection station or kindly told to GTFO. i understand the concern around the prop weapons, justified or otherwise (/k/ greentext stories of idiotic soccer moms "to the rescue" are my favorite) but hacing a tagging and inspection system seems like a good, minimally invasive way to have security around props. i dunno, that's just my 2 cents.
    Chernobyl likes this.
  16. Chernobyl


    I didn't really want to bring current world events into the discussion here, but given the level of strife we've seen in the world recently with heightened terrorism and such, I very much doubt that the logic behind the decision to ban props came easily. It likely took the convention organisers quite a fair amount of time debating the issue before coming to the current result, and the influences behind these decisions are likely based more upon aiding security and making the convention a safer place than they may have been based upon trying to make attendees more comfortable.

    Consider the following: in 2009, Nathan Fillion (known for his role as Buck in the Halo series) visited Bungie Studios in 2009 and showed off with their replica SRS99C S2-AM Sniper Rifle from Halo 3. A concerned member of the public mistook the prop for a real rifle, and called the police, who turned up to what was an obvious false alarm. However, in doing so, police time and manpower was wasted - something that would likely become a major problem at a convention. It's very easy for us as costuming members to laugh and say 'well, it's obviously a prop!' - other people might not be so sure, and every time security are pulled away to deal with a false alarm, they're not dealing with other issues more worthy of their time. And, unfortunately, in the current world climate, people are going to be very jumpy and very wary of anything that looks like it might be a concealed weapon.

    It's annoying and upsetting, certainly, but a blanket ban on props is a lot more effective than having to force costumers through a checkpoint and have their props scrutinised and potentially damaged while they're being inspected. It ruins the convention experience for the costumers, and again, it diverts security away from actually policing the convention effectively.

    However, as FANGS has stated: this is likely more of a knee-jerk reaction to the current global climate. Given some time, things will relax and policies will likely change to allow props back into the convention. At this point, patience, understanding and compliance are going to win out over getting upset over the ruling. Let's respect the decisions of the staff, comply with their requests, and keep the conventions we attend as pleasant and a smoothly-running as we possibly can in the meantime.


    As far as I was aware, most conventions had an 'orange barrel' policy at the very least for members attending with prop/replica weapons. I recall thorssoli created some removable caps for the barrels of his M6G pistols. I may be wrong, however.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2017
  17. CommanderPalmer


    BUT, they didn't ban only props, they banned literally everything. You can't bring even a plushie as a costumer. Literally nothing. Just costume.

    ALSO, Gamescom WAS already very strict. They checked all weapons and props every time you entered and even damaged props because of that.
    But this year, they completely banned.


    This is basically all we can and should do.

    No smuggling props or something, because it could not only hurt that person who did it - lets say you smuggled through a prop like a pistol or a knife. What then? You take it out, someone could panic because no one else has any props. Security called, there could be some trouble and unpleasant things. While checking, they could damage or destroy your prop, best just take it away. Worst? Banned from the convention or Gamescom in this case.

    Not only that, you make 405th look bad and unprofessional.

    Is it bad they banned ALL props? Yes. But calling them out and whining during the convention won't do anything good. So, just accept it and have fun. We can have fun even without props.
    We still have costumes.
  18. Spartan55


    Well said
    as plamer, chernobly, fangs and many others have stated we just need to ride this out and hope for the best. Hey at least those still makeing their costume can foucs on the armour
    ps I'll post in the Australian regiment the con rules wean I find out because of how different Australia and America are
  19. CDPrato

    CDPrato New Member

    With Dragon Con coming up at the beginning of next month, I thought it pertinent to check their rules.

    So as a team, does the 405th just continue to not carry weapons to the Con? Or is this a Con by Con basis?
  20. Cadet

    Cadet Executive Officer Division Staff 405th Regiment Officer

    This situation is a Convention by Convention basis becuase each Convention is different and run by different people. Some Cons are fine with Prop Weapons some are not. For example, the rules you quoted for Dragon Con clearly state that you may carry prop weapons, they just have to be peace bounded and non-functioning.

    As a group the 405th should just simply follow the rules of the convention they are attending.
  21. CDPrato

    CDPrato New Member

    Thanks for the clarification!
  22. CommanderPalmer


    Wow. I'm totally surprised now by the DragonCon banning all the weapons. O_O

    But yeah, if they say no weapons, do not bring any weapons and do not try to smuggle any props in.
    You could get into trouble yourself, but also you'd make 405th look bad... something we all don't want to do, I think.
  23. Jme


    No Mara, we have kickass costumes.


    "I don't know what's weirder, that you're fighting a stuffed animal, or that you seem to be losing" - Suzie
    grifandsargert likes this.
  24. CommanderPalmer


    Yes. Exactly.

    Our weapons may be missing or left behind. But we are actual weapons, haha. Spartans, ODSTs, Marines - doesn't matter. We have our fists and boots, we can punch and kick ass, hah! :3

    [insert here Palmer punching the holo table on INFINITY and leaving a dent]


    Attached Files:

  25. Jme



    "I don't know what's weirder, that you're fighting a stuffed animal, or that you seem to be losing" - Suzie

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