Easy question i can't find the answer to.

Discussion in 'New Recruits' started by Xsjadoful, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

    I'm about to start hardening my first pep build, afterwards should i put a layer of resin over the cardboard outside? Every guide i read shows the hardening process inside the armor pieces but i'm not sure if people tend to resin the outside as well or just paint straight onto the cardboard?

    Sorry if this is in the wrong place it's my first time posting.
     
  2. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    Yeah you would want to resin the outside as well. I recommend getting a spray adhesive and lightly gluing in your fiberglass matt in place on the inside then resin the inside it helps the piece from warping. Once its cured then do a thin layer on the outside. The smoother you can apply the outside layer the less sanding you will have to do.
     
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  3. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

    Thanks i appreciate it, i was almost certain that i should put a layer outside as well but thought i'd make sure (my pep work is farrrrr from perfect so leaving that as the surface layer would make me sad lol)
     
  4. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    I understand. My First build I didnt add enough hardener to the resin and trashed the thigh pieces haha. If you have gaps in your pep the fiberglass will fill in most of them along with the resin and even if that doesnt get it perfect bondo body filler and spot putty can be placed to adjust the final shape.
     
  5. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

    Gaps like a sieve lol. I'm gonna use resin and bondo over fibreglass since i can't really have fibreglass lying around where i live. Hoping i don't mess anything up too badly since i decided to get it finished for halloween so i don't have time to do pieces more than once. Wish i'd gone with a simpler pep template for my first build now but ah well, learn by screwing up right?
     
  6. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    Just a heads up if you dont use fiberglass or some sort of strengthening material It won't hold up for very long. Unless you put a few coats of resin on the inside but its not a lasting solution. Just from experience I rushed to finish my first suit for Halloween and it was great for that year but I ended up wishing I had took the time to do it right. Now the suit thats in my avatar is in a box just falling apart even the helmet that got the most care is still pretty rough.
     
  7. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

    I'm not expecting my first build to last a long time, i've no idea what i'm doing really so it's just learning for now. Planning to do another build afterwards to take my time on. I'm off work for the month so i can do 8-9 hours a day between now and then to learn/make the costume for halloween so i'm just going for it.
     
  8. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    Well good luck if you have any other questions you can message me and I'll do my best to help ya out.
     
  9. FlyinPhil

    FlyinPhil Marketplace Supervisor Division Staff

    Ugh, don't do the rondo route.

    Source: did it to my helmet. It's heavy, fragile, and I've had to make repairs properly with fiberglass where it has cracked from use.
     
  10. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

    Ok if i where to find a space to use to fibreglass it, just another quick question then. Do i attach it to the pep cardboard or do i put a layer of resin in first?

    Oh and pieces like the forearm are very detailed, do i just need to cover a rough shape of the piece inside or do i need to get the fibreglass itself into every little detail?
     
  11. Cadet

    Cadet Executive Officer Division Staff 405th Regiment Officer

    The normal method is to put a thin layer of layer of just resin on the outside of the piece. Then you can add the fiberglass directly to the inside of the paper piece. Some people even use a spray adhesive like 3M Super 77 to stick the fiberglass pieces in place on the inside, and then brush the resin on, making sure it completely soaks into the fiberglass. You want to ensure full coverage with the resin and fiberglass, otherwise those little details will be raw paper and could be easily crushed, warped, or lost.
     
  12. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    No need to put a resin later in first. To make your life easier I would recommend gluing in the fiberglass with spray adhesive.
    20170909_160849.jpg
    I cut out 6x6 in patches sprayed it with some glue and layied it inside the piece. Try and keep your sheets as big as possible 1 inch strips are not ideal. If you have to use mutilpul patches have a little over lap.
    20170909_203749.jpg
    As for the detailed pieces wear some cheap latex gloves and try and get it into every small detail I used a mixing stick and my fingers to get it into every nook and cranny. It will keep the piece from warping when It's resined. I used a fiberglass Matt but they do make a losely woven fiber as well that people like for getting in to detailed pieces. Hope this helped.
     
  13. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

  14. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    What you have there would work. Since it has a loser weave when you cut it strands shouldn't fall off on the edge unlike the super tight woven Matt. If you don't already get a respirator that can filter out organic fumes they are like 50 bucks but totally worth it even outside the resin is super strong.
     
  15. FlyinPhil

    FlyinPhil Marketplace Supervisor Division Staff

    If you are concerned about messing up, practice on a few scrap pieces first! We all start somewhere.

    Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on spray adhesive. Just put a very light coat of resin on the part you want to glass, place a piece of fiberglass onto the resin (it will stick) then gently brush more resin on top of it. I usually 'poke' the piece of fiberglass with the bristles of my brush in order to help the resin penetrate it and work out any bubbles. You don't need a lot of resin to saturate the pieces, any excess resin will be added weight with minimal strength benefit.

    Another tip, work in small, symmetrical areas. Fiberglass impregnated with resin will change shape ever so slightly as it cures, and it would be a lot of work to try to do a helmet in one go. So plan ahead before you start mixing your resin. Cut out pieces of fiberglass, as the gentlemen above recommended. Bigger pieces are better, but fiberglass also doesn't like sharp corners, so take that into account when you are getting ready.

    So once you have your fiberglass pieces cut (I would just cut out enough to do one section of a piece at a time. Say enough to do the visor portion of a helmet. dry fiberglass is very light, and pieces can get blown around, especially if you are working outside) mix up your resin. I would work with an ounce or so of resin at a time, so you won't be rushing to use it all up before it starts to gel and cure. Some sections may require a little bit more, but that's up to you to figure out!

    Also, to answer another question you posted, I always try to coat the inside of a part with a layer of resin as well to saturate the cardboard model. Once that is cured, I begin to fiberglass. The reason for this: on my first pep model, there was some warping. So naturally, I tried to sand down some of the higher areas to even things out. Unfortunately, I didn't coat the inside of the model before using the rondo method, so I ended up sanding into parts of the cardstock, which required me to scrape out the cardstock in some areas and spend time filling those holes with bondo.

    So my personal favourite order of operations:
    -make pep model from cardstock
    -reinforce inside of model with Popsicle sticks, cardboard, etc. (Gives rigidity and prevents warping)
    -coat outside of model with resin, doing it in small sections, not all at once, will help minimize warping.
    -remove supports and coat inside of model with resin
    -add a few layers of fiberglass to inside of model
    -sand and bondo outside of model as needed. I say as needed, because not all areas of a model necessarily need to be hit with bondo. A lot of the sharp edges just need a light sanding and maybe some spot putty along the corners drying the final stages of finishing.
     
  16. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

    That's incredibly helpful thank you. The last of my materials arrive on monday so i'l let you know how it goes, sure it will be fine now though.
     
    FlyinPhil likes this.
  17. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member


    Just wanted to ask if you have any advice for this. There's a piece that isn't actually attached in my pep files. Do you have and advice on how to attach it? should i fibreglass everything and attach it after with superglue/body filler?
    Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

    The red part is what needs attaching on the shoulder pieces. This piece was going to be the first part i begin to harden since if i mess it up it's pretty fast to remake from scratch.
     
  18. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    What files are you using? The file set I used had a bicep a and bicep b. One had the detached pieces and the other was more detailed and was one solid piece. As for mine I cut an outline of the piece and hot glued them together on both sides. Might. It be the most elegant solution bit it holds pretty good.
    1506361108153623013953.jpg 15063611345561104312966.jpg
    Plan to add some bondo up around were they meet to streghten it even more.
     
  19. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

    There was two files in the one i'm using as well, but i had no idea how i was going to fibreglass inside the shoulders if i actually put it together exactly as it is in the file.

    The piece is 3d in the pattern but i was planning to only use the top layer, making the shoulder plate itself thinner and easier for me to work with.
     
  20. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    I made both shoulder types and the one that is one piece with a hollow tube I just pored resin into it and sloshed it around to harden the inside. If it's still not hard enough I was going to put some light expanding expanda foam in there as well.
     
  21. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

    In that case i think i'l leave the shoulder pieces til last, if i have time i'l re-do them the way you suggested.

    Unrelated, is there a way in pepakura to check that the Height/Width/Depth actually corresponds to what it says? As in a way to check that what is written as the width is actually the width of the chest piece, and that it hasn't been put together weirdly where what is written as width could actually be height etc? My measurements would almost half the width of the chest piece in the designer which is considerably more than i've had to reduce any other piece.

    Hope that makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  22. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    Are you using pepakura 3 or 4? Because 3 didn't show height width and depth but pepakura 4 shows that.
     
  23. Xsjadoful

    Xsjadoful New Member

    I'm using 3, i had a bunch of problems trying to get 4 to work for me.

    It's alright though, i realised you can measure distances between points so it's actually really easy to figure out whether the measurements are correct or not.
     
  24. Bullseye

    Bullseye

    Yeah that measure distance tool really helps.
     
  25. FlyinPhil

    FlyinPhil Marketplace Supervisor Division Staff

    So one of my favourite parts about armor is the problem solving involved. Some of the common questions I ask myself during a build: How will these two parts attach? If I attach this part before the part it mounts to I'd finished, will I be able to finish all of the parts properly? When I layer these parts together, which seams will I be dealing with, and how can I minimize the way these seams are shown?

    As far as pepakura parts go, let me use my EOD helmet as an example. I didn't go with the full filters/rebreathers, but instead with the slimmer modded style that can be unlocked in game. I actually ended up making these parts out of craft foam, as my helmet was already quite front-heavy.

    Had I decided to glass those, though, I would have hardened, glassed, and finished them before attaching. Body filler and super glue aren't the best choices for adhering large parts together. Your better choice would be a two part epoxy adhesive, which is available at most hardware stores. It generally looks like a big syringe with two tubes.

    Now adhesives aren't the only options. If you wanted to make the part removable or interchangeable, you could always embed bolts into the fiberglass of one of the parts, and drill holes through the other, allowing them to bolt together and be easily changed.
     

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