"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo

[ianaconda]

Ok thank you that helped a lot and yes i mean spray primer and i mean what store i may found it on because i cant buy it online
And is the polyester + bondo makes rondo or just the epoxy + bondo ??

 

[GentlemanFinn]

Sorry if i posted this twiste now. I have been reading most of this topic, but i stopped at page 68.

I want to know if anyone have used aluminium netting on top of fiberglass? The thought is that it is stronger, but thinner then multible layers of glass.

I am going to use the armor i am building actively while larping and i am conserned with the durability of bondo. Is it strong enough to handle when i am bieng beaten with latex swords and have to "die" (read: hit the ground falling)? Is rondo a better choise? It would suck if it is too brittle and cracks.

If it is imposible to use a pepakura/fiberglass/bondo armor in this way by it self, would it then be better to cast it in plastic?

Edit: i have the option to buy chemical Wood and chemical metal. Is that something worth lookning into? I would imagine that it is a two compound putty like bondo but with different probaties.

 

[Chernobyl]

I want to know if anyone have used aluminium netting on top of fiberglass? The thought is that it is stronger, but thinner then multible layers of glass.

It's entirely possible, yes - I've seen some stores carry this in the same section as fibreglass. In car body repair terms, aluminium mesh is used as a bridge and foundation for holes in car bodies, when simply fibreglass and bondo won't cut it. It's also reasonably lightweight.

If it is imposible to use a pepakura/fiberglass/bondo armor in this way by it self, would it then be better to cast it in plastic?

Bondo is, by its nature, brittle. The foundation beneath your bondo covering (fibreglass) is a lot more durable, however, bondo will chip and crack under impact (particularly with rough-and-tumble LARP play). Casting your piece in plastic and using a layer of fibreglass on the inside to ensure there's a solid foundation underneath will prevent more severe damage, and it should be more durable than bondo layered over fibreglass.

Alternatively, you could also cast your piece in a high-shore rubber, which will give much more durable results.

Edit: i have the option to buy chemical Wood and chemical metal. Is that something worth lookning into? I would imagine that it is a two compound putty like bondo but with different probaties.

I'll look into this for you.

 

[GentlemanFinn]

Hmm. I am making an armor with few details. The breastplate have to be rounded and i would like to find a way to do that where it isnt brittle. I know this is going to be expencive, but i hope to find a way to use the armor i create instead of casting it. Casting is expencive by it self and i am not made of money

Edit (once again!): i just read that i can mix bondo with glass fibers and that would make it more regid. If i mix the fibers, bondo and resin and make some kind of super rondo would that work? I use milliput and greenstuff when i make miniatures.. If i mix them i get a materiale that is solid and durable. If i put a thin layer or two on top of the super rondo would that maybe make it less rigid?

 

[EVAkura]

Hmm. I am making an armor with few details. The breastplate have to be rounded and i would like to find a way to do that where it isnt brittle. I know this is going to be expencive, but i hope to find a way to use the armor i create instead of casting it. Casting is expencive by it self and i am not made of money

Edit (once again!): i just read that i can mix bondo with glass fibers and that would make it more regid. If i mix the fibers, bondo and resin and make some kind of super rondo would that work? I use milliput and greenstuff when i make miniatures.. If i mix them i get a materiale that is solid and durable. If i put a thin layer or two on top of the super rondo would that maybe make it less rigid?

I have been working with Rondo a lot lately. I have found that a 50/50 mixture has very strong and fairly impact resistant properties. If you were to first do a layer of Kevlar with just epoxy, then a top coat of the Rondo, that should provide you with a very strong piece. If you wanted to go the extra mile, you could make the Rondo with "Bondoglass" and epoxy, which is very similar to what you described above.

 

[GentlemanFinn]

Would that comination of materials make the armor able to take the kind of beating i need it to could? I am not going to do any stunts or jump down from trees or anything stupid like that. I just want to know that i can fight in the battles with the knowlagde that my armor still is in one piece when it is done. It would be great if i could find a way to do this

I know it is cheaper just to buy a mass produced armor from some store, but that is just not satisfying..

 

[EVAkura]

Would that comination of materials make the armor able to take the kind of beating i need it to could?

Without going to a one-piece molded item, it is about as strong and durable as you are going to get. If done correctly, it should have a bit of give to it (bend-ability without cracking), and the Kevlar and fiberglass will help disperse the energy inflicted by impacts. It won't be indestructible, but pretty darned close to

Also, I would create 'Keys" in the Kevlar layer to give better adhesion for the Rondo top layer.

 

[GentlemanFinn]

When you say "kevlar" du you then mean the synthetic fabric used in bulletproof vests? That sound expencive.. What is a "Key"? Is it simular to the Keys used when making a mould?

Right now my plan is to design and build the armor:
I am doing this with 170g/m2 cardstock glued with regular glue (the one in a stick).
I am then going to resin 2 or 3 times on each side (there is not going to be much detail at this stage).
After that i am going to apply glass fiber cloth.
The aluminium net would then be used as exstreme reinforsement.
I am debating to put down an exstra layer of glass fiber on top or the aluminium.

That would be the foundation to build the details using the super rondo.

When it is done and i have paintet it i have to figure out how to seal it to protect it from wear.

Hope i make myself understandeble!

 

[angel62sir]

ianaconda, apologys for my late reply, any DIY, car repair shop would carry primer it's a matter of finding it where you are. Rondo is a 50/50 mix of polyester resin and bondo.

 

[EVAkura]

When you say "kevlar" du you then mean the synthetic fabric used in bulletproof vests? That sound expencive.. What is a "Key"? Is it simular to the Keys used when making a mould?

Right now my plan is to design and build the armor:
I am doing this with 170g/m2 cardstock glued with regular glue (the one in a stick).
I am then going to resin 2 or 3 times on each side (there is not going to be much detail at this stage).
After that i am going to apply glass fiber cloth.
The aluminium net would then be used as exstreme reinforsement.
I am debating to put down an exstra layer of glass fiber on top or the aluminium.

That would be the foundation to build the details using the super rondo.

When it is done and i have paintet it i have to figure out how to seal it to protect it from wear.

Hope i make myself understandeble!

Yes, that is the same stuff... Kevlar is priced a bit more than fiberglass, but still very reasonable. Also yes, the keys I am referring to are the same as what is used in mold making. I would forego the aluminum though. It will not add enough strength to make a difference, and is much weaker than Kevlar and fiberglass in comparison due to the fact that it is not porous (poor adhesion) and the tensile strength is low (bends and breaks under stress too easily)

 

[GentlemanFinn]

Ok thanks. I have been looking at the options i have when it comes to kevlar. I dont know about the rest of the World, but here it is many times more expencive then glass.. I read on one of the shops homepage that you need special tools to cut the kevlar. I think i have to live with the thickness of the glass

So to recap: pep the armor, resin it, glass it until i am satisfired (testet and true).

Just to experiment with durability ill buy the chemical wood and iron and test it out. WHO knows? Maybe i find the Holy grail and shape the future of armor building for ever!

 

[ianaconda]

so guys if i making a prob not helmet like a sword how can i fiberglass it ?
from outside ? and can i use the fiberglass self adhesive tape like how i use the fiberglass mat ?

 

[JICR B148]

To clarify a few things, the materials I work with is E Glass Tape from Fiberglass Hawaii (http://www.fiberglasshawaii.com/fabrics/fabrics-tape/fabrics-tape1.html). I've used the E Glass Tape for many things other than Pepakura, but I usually don't cut the tape into 2" x 2" patches.

Before applying a layer of adhesive spray and a patchwork of fiberglass into a pep piece, is it REALLY necessary to cut the fiberglass tape into pieces for application beforehand?

I have a plethora of E Glass Tape Rolls from widths of 2"-6", and for the means of less work carried, I was hoping to cut the tape into variable lengthy strips.

 

[EVAkura]

so guys if i making a prob not helmet like a sword how can i fiberglass it ?
from outside ? and can i use the fiberglass self adhesive tape like how i use the fiberglass mat ?

I don't see any reason why you could not use the fiberglass tape in place of the mat... and yes, on the outside would be best. You also may want to cut a small hole in the pepped sword and pour in a light slushcast of either straight resin, or rondo (if you have achieved the ability to make it that is).

To clarify a few things, the materials I work with is E Glass Tape from Fiberglass Hawaii (http://www.fiberglasshawaii.com/fabrics/fabrics-tape/fabrics-tape1.html). I've used the E Glass Tape for many things other than Pepakura, but I usually don't cut the tape into 2" x 2" patches.

Before applying a layer of adhesive spray and a patchwork of fiberglass into a pep piece, is it REALLY necessary to cut the fiberglass tape into pieces for application beforehand?

I have a plethora of E Glass Tape Rolls from widths of 2"-6", and for the means of less work carried, I was hoping to cut the tape into variable lengthy strips.

EDIT: Also, I guess it would depend on the item you are glassing. If it is a piece with a bunch of peaks, valleys, and compound angles, then yes, I would cut into smaller pieces. If it is a piece without those, but instead long runs of "straight and flat shots", then you would be fine with longer pieces. Even on the first example, I don't think 2"x2" is necessarily advised. The pieces should be commensurate with what you are glassing. That usually means that the pieces are of all different shapes, with overlaps in appropriate areas. This is where organization of the pre-cut pieces would be paramount prior to applying resin.

The reason for having it pre-cut is for the ability to resin saturate the fiberglass in one shot. Since the resin cures to an unworkable state so fast, it is nice to have everything cut out to shape beforehand. Also, I would highly recommend applying the resin, then fiberglass, then saturating it again with resin. I understand that you want to use the spray adhesive, but believe that should be used for temporary placement and alignment as a pose to relying on it to adhere to the pepped piece when the resin is applied. The idea is to make sure that the fiberglass is completely saturated on all sides, and by using the spray adhesive to stick the fiberglass to the piece, and then resining only the top would run the risk of getting air trapped under the fiberglass.

 

[JICR B148]

In terms of safety, how do I prevent a perfect setup from being messy, or hazardous, after sanding down fiberglass resin and Bondo?

Safety is the top priority component to my hobbies, but when it comes down to toxicity, going excessively overboard with safety procurements, isn't so bad.

Better Safe Than Sorry, Right?

While brainstorming my options, I was thinking of constructing a downdraft table for the fiberglass and Bondo dust, and for additional safety purposes for my equipment, my uncle suggested to construct a two-piece vacuum dust collector.

Thus, my final question, am I weighing too much on my ideals, or am I on the right track?

 

[duude98]

Hey, I'm working on my first build, and where do you buy aqua-resin? I cant find a single place that sells it online...

 

[HALOSPRTAN]

hey, i have used aqua resin before, and i buy mine on PNTA.com, just look up PNTA and search for aqua resin. It comes quickly, and I have ordered many times. I just warn you, bondohas trouble sitcking to aqua resin and i have had problems with it.

 

[HALOSPRTAN]

In terms of safety, how do I prevent a perfect setup from being messy, or hazardous, after sanding down fiberglass resin and Bondo?

Safety is the top priority component to my hobbies, but when it comes down to toxicity, going excessively overboard with safety procurements, isn't so bad.

Better Safe Than Sorry, Right?

While brainstorming my options, I was thinking of constructing a downdraft table for the fiberglass and Bondo dust, and for additional safety purposes for my equipment, my uncle suggested to construct a two-piece vacuum dust collector.

Thus, my final question, am I weighing too much on my ideals, or am I on the right track?

I have a shop, and for my sanding and bondo work, i have a downdraft table attached to my dust collecter, For fumes i have the back door open with a fan in the doorway circulating air, and i have the garage door open 1 foot for a good crossbreeze. When ever you work with resin/bondo, i always wear a respirator, and dust mask for the sanding. If you are worried about chemicals on your hands wear gloves, other than that, i think you are ready to go GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[Reaver775]

dude thanks for the tip. im new and just soaking up info. so thank you

 

[learnitall]

Hey I have a question in regards to the scaling my pep helmet.

How thick of a layer will form when finish the inner resin+fiber glassing job?

I want to make room for cushioning but I also want to account for the thickness of the resin+fiberglass that will be on the underside as well.