kilted klingon
New Member
Gotta agree, us not having a say really seems to irk most everyone. This was a poor choice by asgardian and the rest of the higher ups to leave this for the co's and closed door discussions.
New Logo
- Thread starter ColFork85
- Start date
- Status
Macattack64
Well-Known Member
As a regiment, we are not requiring anyone to wear, label, or put the logo on their armor, or any possessions for that matter. This will be the official logo and the brand to represent the group. The old logo is a part of our history but won't be used to represent this group from this point forward.
Concerns for the logo design were discussed among the regiment staff. From there ALL concerns were brought up and discussed among staff and higher ups.
Concerns for the logo design were discussed among the regiment staff. From there ALL concerns were brought up and discussed among staff and higher ups.
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Lemonade
Member
Hey, I'm Rachel.
I'd like to thank all who so enthusiastically love the logo I designed. It was a fun project, and I enjoyed the challenge of finding something that would represent our group.
That being said, I don't dislike the new logo. I'm not going to rally against its use. It's a solid, professional design. It's got the same style of the 405th logo without looking too much like it. You can tell it was actually made by someone who knows what they're doing.
Remembering back to when all the members voted on my designs, the diversity of everyone's opinion was a nightmare. You simply cannot please everyone. I remember one guy saying the winning logo looked like a potato. And he was right; looking at it now, it does kind of look like a potato. But potato or not, letting everyone put their two cents in on a logo is a graphic design nightmare. After the voting, I had decided to never let something like that happen again. The higher ups were wise to not let all the members weigh in.
Besides, it sounds like all regiment logos are being designed by the same people. This is good for branding. Specifically brand consistency. The 405th would look really scattered if all their regiment logos were vastly different from one another. ....like they were a few days ago. It makes us as a whole look unified and like we've got our act together. This is more crucial than you might think.
Which brings us to the wheat. Yeah, it's not the most fascinating part of our region, but it is a huge part of us. We're known for having really, really flat lands that are perfect for agriculture. It's what most people think when they think of the Midwest. It's even the first thing I think of, and I live in Chicago. Wheat is also one of the few things all our states have in common. If the logo had the Sear's Tower, people from Indiana might complain. You can't get mad at the designers for their attempt at catering to everyone.
I know it sucks when you don't like the logo representing you. But that's just going to happen. It's life. There's all sorts of logos representing you right now. They could be from your school, your work, or your government, and you're faced with a choice to be angry about it or to not let it bother you. Be proud of it even. Because in the end, a logo isn't a few abstract shapes with the name of your group. A logo is what you are. It represents your group, and this group of people is something to be proud about. Be the proud Midwestern Regiment. Be a unit banded by the pride of your people.
I'd like to thank all who so enthusiastically love the logo I designed. It was a fun project, and I enjoyed the challenge of finding something that would represent our group.
That being said, I don't dislike the new logo. I'm not going to rally against its use. It's a solid, professional design. It's got the same style of the 405th logo without looking too much like it. You can tell it was actually made by someone who knows what they're doing.
Remembering back to when all the members voted on my designs, the diversity of everyone's opinion was a nightmare. You simply cannot please everyone. I remember one guy saying the winning logo looked like a potato. And he was right; looking at it now, it does kind of look like a potato. But potato or not, letting everyone put their two cents in on a logo is a graphic design nightmare. After the voting, I had decided to never let something like that happen again. The higher ups were wise to not let all the members weigh in.
Besides, it sounds like all regiment logos are being designed by the same people. This is good for branding. Specifically brand consistency. The 405th would look really scattered if all their regiment logos were vastly different from one another. ....like they were a few days ago. It makes us as a whole look unified and like we've got our act together. This is more crucial than you might think.
Which brings us to the wheat. Yeah, it's not the most fascinating part of our region, but it is a huge part of us. We're known for having really, really flat lands that are perfect for agriculture. It's what most people think when they think of the Midwest. It's even the first thing I think of, and I live in Chicago. Wheat is also one of the few things all our states have in common. If the logo had the Sear's Tower, people from Indiana might complain. You can't get mad at the designers for their attempt at catering to everyone.
I know it sucks when you don't like the logo representing you. But that's just going to happen. It's life. There's all sorts of logos representing you right now. They could be from your school, your work, or your government, and you're faced with a choice to be angry about it or to not let it bother you. Be proud of it even. Because in the end, a logo isn't a few abstract shapes with the name of your group. A logo is what you are. It represents your group, and this group of people is something to be proud about. Be the proud Midwestern Regiment. Be a unit banded by the pride of your people.
Your angst is misplaced. Your Regiment Staff was specifically told NOT to communicate out until these were complete. You voted in your Regiment Staff to represent you, and in the case of your logo, they did. The Division Staff chose a design team, composed of professional designer who worked on the designs and then those designs were vetted through the Regiment Staff. In your case, the staff asked for a few adjustments and those adjustments were made. Things like this always are a give and take process, but the process was always only going to happen at the division and regiment level. Trying to get approval from the members themselves would not have worked.... we have tried that before... it never does.
Macattack64
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your input, Rachel. I appreciate it!
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ColFork85
Active Member
At least there are those of us not drinking the kool-aid. If the 405th wants to promote socialist ideals, you are doomed to fail. I'm sorry none of you understand that you can't use Chicago politics to bully people around and expect them to follow you. Some change can be good, there is no denying that. But when you make claims about supporting the community and aiming to keep growing it, then force-feed things to the community, that's counter intuitive, sends mixed messages, and is just bad business.
I will agree, however, that SOME of my "angst" is misdirected. My nomination for Ryan was a poor choice. I see this now.
I will agree, however, that SOME of my "angst" is misdirected. My nomination for Ryan was a poor choice. I see this now.
Lazkin
RXO and RMO
I agree with Rachel, who did a wonderful job and also knows her stuff. She did a lot of hard work for us, and helped out a lot with the first logo. But that was before we were official.
Now, we *are* 405th. It's been a long road. Now we're finally part of a bigger costuming world where 343 and MicroSoft actually let us be a part of things.... and we're nit picking over a logo.
Instead on focusing on what I don't like, I'm going to put out here what I do like. Despite the harsh words people had with me last fall, I still think of everyone here as a second family. And yes, while I might have preferred something a little more fancy of a logo, for me this really isn't that big of a thing to make an issue out of. The midwest has some of the coolest people I know! And now we have something that's uniquely ours that identifies us within an even more awesome group. It's our emblem, for us and us alone. So when I look at that picture, or see it somewhere, I'm going to squeal like the fan girl I am and know I have a friend.
It stands out, and so do we. So instead of griping, I'm going to wear it with pride. Because I'm from the freakin midwest baby! Bread Basket and all XD
Now, we *are* 405th. It's been a long road. Now we're finally part of a bigger costuming world where 343 and MicroSoft actually let us be a part of things.... and we're nit picking over a logo.
Instead on focusing on what I don't like, I'm going to put out here what I do like. Despite the harsh words people had with me last fall, I still think of everyone here as a second family. And yes, while I might have preferred something a little more fancy of a logo, for me this really isn't that big of a thing to make an issue out of. The midwest has some of the coolest people I know! And now we have something that's uniquely ours that identifies us within an even more awesome group. It's our emblem, for us and us alone. So when I look at that picture, or see it somewhere, I'm going to squeal like the fan girl I am and know I have a friend.
It stands out, and so do we. So instead of griping, I'm going to wear it with pride. Because I'm from the freakin midwest baby! Bread Basket and all XD
spartan IV
Jr Member
After careful thought and close scrutiny, I must say I really like the logo we now have for the Midwest. The fact that we have one at all still amazes me. While it would not promote regimental unity, if some one does not like our new logo, what is stopping them from just putting the 405th logo plain on their armor? More often than not I do not even see people put the logo on their sets. That said, I am going to do my best to get the new logo put on my upcoming armor set. I am proud that I am part of the Midwest and I want to show it.
ColFork85
Active Member
The logo itself isn't really the heart of the matter. I still don't like it, won't wear it.
But it represents that those in charge have no issue with, without consent or input from the community, to "look out for our good"(I.E. Socialist ideology promoting a dependance on the state to do everything for us). They have said that they want to keep and even grow the community, but then do this without community involvement, for something that is supposed to represent the community. Yes, fault lays with our RCO's not involving the members that voted them in(to which I now greatly regret my vote), however, when the DCO's instruct the RCO's to NOT tell their members, that equals out the blame between both levels of management. If leaders wont properly represent the people, they won't have people to lead. If leaders don't understand that, and refuse any change to that mindset, they don't deserve to be followed.
But it represents that those in charge have no issue with, without consent or input from the community, to "look out for our good"(I.E. Socialist ideology promoting a dependance on the state to do everything for us). They have said that they want to keep and even grow the community, but then do this without community involvement, for something that is supposed to represent the community. Yes, fault lays with our RCO's not involving the members that voted them in(to which I now greatly regret my vote), however, when the DCO's instruct the RCO's to NOT tell their members, that equals out the blame between both levels of management. If leaders wont properly represent the people, they won't have people to lead. If leaders don't understand that, and refuse any change to that mindset, they don't deserve to be followed.
- Member DIN
- S111
I understand your frustration at not being consulted or having direct input into the logo. However, this is not a Democracy. At best it's a quasi Representative Democracy/Republic. But even that's not right because the 405th is not a government. At the end of the day the 405th is just a Social Club, and as a simple Social Club the people in charge can do what they see fit. The very fact that this just a Social Club not a government makes your continued claim of a "Socialist Agenda" come off as unnecessarily excessive and trolling, because it's so very much off base and not relevant to this matter at all.
Even more important is the fact that 405th Logo and Name is trademarked and owned by Art. He owns the 405th. That simple. As such, he does, and should, have the final say in all things that use the 405th name. It's his right and prerogative as the person that stepped up and put up the money to buy, save, update, and keep up this place. Could he have saved that "final call" to pick from a list of suggested logos presented by the RCOs? Yes. He could have. He didn’t though. Instead, to try to ensure as much consistency between the logos, to maintain as much Brand Consistency amongst the logos, he turned to one source to generate all the logos, with input from the RCOs. Having one person create all the logos ensures that they all try to follow as close together.
Maybe more input could have been garnered from the community members for the logos, yes. A thread for, “What kind of things do you want in a logo?” created in each regimental section. That input could have then been turned over to the designer.
That’s not what happened. And it’s understandable to feel left out because of that. I could go into all the justifications on how in Graphic design work you can’t please everyone, and the more people you add to a design process, the longer it takes. But 1. Lemonade already covered that extremely eloquently and 2. I understand your big complaint is that the general membership wasn’t consulted and didn’t have enough say in the logo design.
Community involvement is important. It is something that should be better stressed as things move forward. However, Art and his crew have shown in the past that they can and do take feedback from the membership on things like the Mantle, but the way to make your point, and to get people to listen to you and take you seriously is not to make over the top, hyperbolic, borderline trolling posts that can only really be read as attacks.
When you attack someone, they will almost invariably go into the defensive. The more you rant and cry about “Socialist Agendas” and “Drinking The Kool-Aid” the less the people you want to change will take heed of your arguments, because you’re attacking them, and, honestly, the less the people not already on your side will take your arguments seriously.
Finally, as someone who was on the Command Staff of his local 501[SUP]st[/SUP] Garrison for almost ten years let me give you a piece of advice.
Take a step back. Take a Deep Breath.
This the logo for a Social Club.
It might feel like if you can’t trust them to make a logo, you can’t trust them to do other stuff, but just take a moment to think about how at the end of the day it’s all for a silly little club where we play life size video game figures. It’s not the end of world. And if after taking a break to cool off it still really bothers you, present your feelings in a clear, concise way and offer alternatives or suggestions. That way people will want to listen to you.
Even more important is the fact that 405th Logo and Name is trademarked and owned by Art. He owns the 405th. That simple. As such, he does, and should, have the final say in all things that use the 405th name. It's his right and prerogative as the person that stepped up and put up the money to buy, save, update, and keep up this place. Could he have saved that "final call" to pick from a list of suggested logos presented by the RCOs? Yes. He could have. He didn’t though. Instead, to try to ensure as much consistency between the logos, to maintain as much Brand Consistency amongst the logos, he turned to one source to generate all the logos, with input from the RCOs. Having one person create all the logos ensures that they all try to follow as close together.
Maybe more input could have been garnered from the community members for the logos, yes. A thread for, “What kind of things do you want in a logo?” created in each regimental section. That input could have then been turned over to the designer.
That’s not what happened. And it’s understandable to feel left out because of that. I could go into all the justifications on how in Graphic design work you can’t please everyone, and the more people you add to a design process, the longer it takes. But 1. Lemonade already covered that extremely eloquently and 2. I understand your big complaint is that the general membership wasn’t consulted and didn’t have enough say in the logo design.
Community involvement is important. It is something that should be better stressed as things move forward. However, Art and his crew have shown in the past that they can and do take feedback from the membership on things like the Mantle, but the way to make your point, and to get people to listen to you and take you seriously is not to make over the top, hyperbolic, borderline trolling posts that can only really be read as attacks.
When you attack someone, they will almost invariably go into the defensive. The more you rant and cry about “Socialist Agendas” and “Drinking The Kool-Aid” the less the people you want to change will take heed of your arguments, because you’re attacking them, and, honestly, the less the people not already on your side will take your arguments seriously.
Finally, as someone who was on the Command Staff of his local 501[SUP]st[/SUP] Garrison for almost ten years let me give you a piece of advice.
Take a step back. Take a Deep Breath.
This the logo for a Social Club.
It might feel like if you can’t trust them to make a logo, you can’t trust them to do other stuff, but just take a moment to think about how at the end of the day it’s all for a silly little club where we play life size video game figures. It’s not the end of world. And if after taking a break to cool off it still really bothers you, present your feelings in a clear, concise way and offer alternatives or suggestions. That way people will want to listen to you.
rickrtickr
Active Member
- Member DIN
- S259
First as my addition into the conversation I would like to say that I really like the new logo, and I plan to at some point implement it into my armor.
Second I am not real sure why this has been such a heated conversation. have just got back on the site in a few days to see something cool like this (something I have in fact been waiting for for quite a while) be turned into some pointless argument. This is how things play out in the real world (the people [ like the regiment] decide collectively who should be their representative [a process which we had] then it is the job of that person to best represent the entire group [the regiment] to the best of their ability [which I also feel has been fulfilled]. this is not a everyone votes on every minuscule thing (nothing would ever get done) and so we have a system one that happens to be loosely based on the country in which most of us live and for the most part works.
lastly as i have been reading over this forum I have noticed that colfork85 has been banned. I dearly hope this is due to a greater misdemeanor than simply complaining about a logo.
keep up the good work guys.
now where did I put my decal sheets ? ? ?
Second I am not real sure why this has been such a heated conversation. have just got back on the site in a few days to see something cool like this (something I have in fact been waiting for for quite a while) be turned into some pointless argument. This is how things play out in the real world (the people [ like the regiment] decide collectively who should be their representative [a process which we had] then it is the job of that person to best represent the entire group [the regiment] to the best of their ability [which I also feel has been fulfilled]. this is not a everyone votes on every minuscule thing (nothing would ever get done) and so we have a system one that happens to be loosely based on the country in which most of us live and for the most part works.
lastly as i have been reading over this forum I have noticed that colfork85 has been banned. I dearly hope this is due to a greater misdemeanor than simply complaining about a logo.
keep up the good work guys.
now where did I put my decal sheets ? ? ?
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